SnapsProvolone
Well-Known Member
Smart. I would seriously have bet they're going to propose a sog of some sort.
Designing a 15000sqft facility....please help
- Thread starter shawa
- Start date
I know hiring a master grower ideally should of happened by now but the problem with this is that because of health Canada regs, things take a while. I've been on this since July 2013. As well, to get conditional approval we only need to have a proposal made. The building does not have to even be built, let a lone any equipment being purchased. So if we get conditional approval, at that point we can now hire a master grower because the build out would only then begin.
If our proposal was initially based on a certain hydro style, we would be able to change it, if the grower wanted, without affecting the Health Canada License. Health Canada pre approval is based on the structure of the building, security, air quality, security clearance of individuals involved, trackability system, SOP's.
If our proposal was initially based on a certain hydro style, we would be able to change it, if the grower wanted, without affecting the Health Canada License. Health Canada pre approval is based on the structure of the building, security, air quality, security clearance of individuals involved, trackability system, SOP's.
SnapsProvolone
Well-Known Member
Just saying sog because all their website images for marijuana production rooms have tables setup for a sog.
Deusracing
Well-Known Member
Hell Id come up there and design it for you
itsmehigh
Well-Known Member
I have designed a 6000sf under the MMAR, and a 16000sf, 36000sf, and currently designing a 100,000sf facility! Under the MMPR. All with top drip recirculating systems. From your drawing I can say you are missing a lot. IE. Electrical room, secure(level 4) waste storage, decontamination room, space for res's, multiple drying rooms, harvest room, ect, ect. You absolutely need the grower to be involved with the design. Let me know if you need any guidance with the design or locating a master grower, I am committed and bound by a contract currently but I have a partner in Alberta who would be an obvious choice to help you. [email protected]
cheers Itsme.
cheers Itsme.
joe macclennan
Well-Known Member
psssh! sizing and equipment advice is waaay over my head on a project of this size...not afraid to admit it.
I wouldn't even know where to start. I do think I would go with some sort of water cooled or possibly even try to incorporate some sort of geothermal loops or something as you mentioned. Costs for a geo setup of this size may be prohibitive though. I dunno. I would strive for maximum efficiency though I think
curious to see what mr. blah has to say on it.
SnapsProvolone
Well-Known Member
I would say whatever system is specified should be able to control 50 - 500 kW load and anywhere in between based on a scalable grow.
joe macclennan
Well-Known Member
yeah, I liked blahs idea on redundancy....sorta.THe thing is those big commercial cooling towers and chillers run for years and years and years if installed properly...I just don't know about doubling cooling capacity.... easily 30% larger maybe to plan for the 100 year heat wave which is bound to happen if you don't plan for it.
I dunno...Maybe several smaller cooling towers and units? Or one mid sized unit for each room if op goes with smaller rooms.
in fact if co2 were ran i think each room having it's own unit would be necessary come to think of it
I dunno...Maybe several smaller cooling towers and units? Or one mid sized unit for each room if op goes with smaller rooms.
in fact if co2 were ran i think each room having it's own unit would be necessary come to think of it
SnapsProvolone
Well-Known Member
I thought the plan was each room had it's own air handler off the main chiller coolant feed so CO2 should not exchange.
joe macclennan
Well-Known Member
yeah that's right.. forgot
MisterBlah
Well-Known Member
There were a few points brought up that I'll address.
In regards to over-sizing a system: With most water cooled air conditioning systems, over-sizing is never an issue. Your air handlers run on thermostats in the room, and never bring in outside air. So, when the temperature drops below, say 75F, it shuts off. When it shuts off, there is no heat transferred back into the water/glycol that is constantly running through the system. That is, when an air handler shuts off, there is still fluid flow through it. This will also go back to the temperature of the reservoir, which controls the chillers. I've seen some systems that run a quite simple design of staggered temperature chiller operation. That is, one chiller turns on at 44F, one at 45F, one at 46F, etc. The same time of things is common to see in typical A/C condensers with multiple compressors in them. That concept is something any system will have and it is designed to only use what is necessary.
In regards to cooling towers/dry coolers: It works better in dryer climates, so it depends on where in Canada. But, for reference, an 10 ton cooling tower runs maybe $2,000. A 10 ton water chiller from Hydro Innovations runs $8k retail. A 10 ton Trane condenser will run about $5-7k depending on the model. A 10 ton dry cooler(likely just the coil from a 10 ton condenser), will run maybe $4-5k?
Assuming 45F is a set point of your reservoir:
The dry cooler will use ZERO electricity, but only works when the temperature outside is below 45F.
The cooling tower works when ever the WET BULB(dew point) temperature is below 45F(ambient temp is above this point), but uses 5% the power of a chiller of the same size.
The water chiller will work down to about 0F, even with low pressure kits installed. Most normal A/C Condensing units stop running at around 30 of 40F.
So, in order to do it right, you need to have condensing unit(the water chiller) AND dry coolers. Cooling towers are optional in my opinion, but should be used if efficiency is the name of the game.
In regards to over-sizing a system: With most water cooled air conditioning systems, over-sizing is never an issue. Your air handlers run on thermostats in the room, and never bring in outside air. So, when the temperature drops below, say 75F, it shuts off. When it shuts off, there is no heat transferred back into the water/glycol that is constantly running through the system. That is, when an air handler shuts off, there is still fluid flow through it. This will also go back to the temperature of the reservoir, which controls the chillers. I've seen some systems that run a quite simple design of staggered temperature chiller operation. That is, one chiller turns on at 44F, one at 45F, one at 46F, etc. The same time of things is common to see in typical A/C condensers with multiple compressors in them. That concept is something any system will have and it is designed to only use what is necessary.
Each room will likely have multiple fan coil units which act as your air handler in the room. Some of these will be set for dehumidification, so this is correct.
In regards to cooling towers/dry coolers: It works better in dryer climates, so it depends on where in Canada. But, for reference, an 10 ton cooling tower runs maybe $2,000. A 10 ton water chiller from Hydro Innovations runs $8k retail. A 10 ton Trane condenser will run about $5-7k depending on the model. A 10 ton dry cooler(likely just the coil from a 10 ton condenser), will run maybe $4-5k?
Assuming 45F is a set point of your reservoir:
The dry cooler will use ZERO electricity, but only works when the temperature outside is below 45F.
The cooling tower works when ever the WET BULB(dew point) temperature is below 45F(ambient temp is above this point), but uses 5% the power of a chiller of the same size.
The water chiller will work down to about 0F, even with low pressure kits installed. Most normal A/C Condensing units stop running at around 30 of 40F.
So, in order to do it right, you need to have condensing unit(the water chiller) AND dry coolers. Cooling towers are optional in my opinion, but should be used if efficiency is the name of the game.
Hi guys, so just for a quick update: we have a total of 8200 square feet of space dedicated strictly to "grow area". We have a different room for motherplants and propogation. The 8200sqft is strictly for veg/flowering. We want to organize this is a way so that we can have approx. 8-10 different strains of indica's, Sativa's, and blends. Any advice on how to separate/organize the grow area? How to divide it up?
joe macclennan
Well-Known Member
the nerve of some people is right
this was a perfectly good thread till you showed up and start spreading your cheer
newb
Last edited by a moderator:
SnapsProvolone
Well-Known Member
Instead of "learning how to roll" killemsoftly should be listed as "learning how to troll"...
jrainman
Active Member
Gona get up on my soap box and give you my .2cents , As far a mechanical equipment goes , In my 35 yr plus experience in the building trade.
I would opt for Mammoth and liebert , chillers are chillers most all have good solid rep,
but my rooftops would be mammoth , and my Veg and flower room would be liebert hands down nothing more efficient and reliable , Nothing would even come close to a liebert in the flower rooms ,they were not designed for a grow facility, But when you look at what they were designed for nothing out there comes close to matching environmental needs. as far as temp and humidity control. and reliable like nothing else out there. Oh and Mammoth is Canadian built and efficiency is there strong point and again reliable . good luck though with your build
I would opt for Mammoth and liebert , chillers are chillers most all have good solid rep,
but my rooftops would be mammoth , and my Veg and flower room would be liebert hands down nothing more efficient and reliable , Nothing would even come close to a liebert in the flower rooms ,they were not designed for a grow facility, But when you look at what they were designed for nothing out there comes close to matching environmental needs. as far as temp and humidity control. and reliable like nothing else out there. Oh and Mammoth is Canadian built and efficiency is there strong point and again reliable . good luck though with your build
kushman1369
Member
This is the best thread I have read in a long time! Shawa, thank you for starting this thread and also providing the company name GGS. Snap, Joe, MisterBlah, thank you all so much for all of your insight, you guys are truly awesome. I feel blessed to have been able to read all of this, gotta love this forum!
I am actually in somewhat of the same situation as Shawa, except that I have been growing since the 80's. I am in Las Vegas, which in case you haven't heard is about to allow dispensaries and cultivation facilities. It has been a lifelong dream of mine to operate a large grow facility, but have only ever managed small personal grows. Always with great success, but never on the scale of what you all are discussing here. I now have the financial backing to make this happen, but my knowledge and experience obviously are of the small variety. You all have really given some priceless information over the last 26 pages, and have given me a bit more confidence that with hard work, dedication and the realization that even with all my small grow experience, I really don't know shit...lol, if I put my mind to it this and accept that I am going to need a lot of guidance to be successful, this dream can be a reality.
Snap, out of curiosity how much would a consultant like yourself charge? Is a company like GGS somewhat of the norm for successful operations? Are there companies like this in the US that you would recommend? It seems if you can hire one company to take care of every aspect of the setup it would be much more beneficial than hiring out individual contractors.
BTW, when I can send and receive PM's, if you guys are ever in Vegas the beers and buds are on me
I am actually in somewhat of the same situation as Shawa, except that I have been growing since the 80's. I am in Las Vegas, which in case you haven't heard is about to allow dispensaries and cultivation facilities. It has been a lifelong dream of mine to operate a large grow facility, but have only ever managed small personal grows. Always with great success, but never on the scale of what you all are discussing here. I now have the financial backing to make this happen, but my knowledge and experience obviously are of the small variety. You all have really given some priceless information over the last 26 pages, and have given me a bit more confidence that with hard work, dedication and the realization that even with all my small grow experience, I really don't know shit...lol, if I put my mind to it this and accept that I am going to need a lot of guidance to be successful, this dream can be a reality.
Snap, out of curiosity how much would a consultant like yourself charge? Is a company like GGS somewhat of the norm for successful operations? Are there companies like this in the US that you would recommend? It seems if you can hire one company to take care of every aspect of the setup it would be much more beneficial than hiring out individual contractors.
BTW, when I can send and receive PM's, if you guys are ever in Vegas the beers and buds are on me
joe macclennan
Well-Known Member
you need 50 posts I think to be able to send pms.
kushman1369
Member
I'll probably get there in no time with this endeavor most likely on the horizon.
I can't speak for Shawa, but I can tell you I am very serious about this. For someone in my position this thread was very much needed. Obviously it hasn't given me all the answers I am looking for, but it is a damn good start.
joe macclennan
Well-Known Member
may indeed be you are correct.
but, It is entirely plausible the guy is just getting bullet points to grill his chosen grower/designer/contractors etc.etc. on
kushman1369
Member
Las Vegas still has a lot of issues to be ironed out before they start accepting applications for dispensaries and cultivation facilities. As it stands now they will allow a cultivation facility to have no more than 99 mature plants per month. What would be the optimal square footage for a facility be to produce that amount every month? I also agree the a SOG grow is the way to go here, vegging plants makes no sense to me at all. Straight from clone to flower IMHO with a space dedicated to mothers and clones seems to be by far the best way to go. So, with a grow of that size would it be fair to say you should expect to produce approx 37-40 lbs per month? 4-6 plants per light, 18 1000 watt HPS, 1 gram per watt, 18,000 grams per month=40 lbs. Like I've said, I've only ever been a small time grower so please forgive me if these calculations are totally ignorant. I don't mind at all being called a n00b or an idiot, just would like some input from those of you with experience with large grows like this.
Also, I know in Colorado they allow dispensaries and cultivation facilities in the same building, Vegas is going a different route. They want the dispensaries in shopping centers which are easily accessible to the public, and all grow facilities must be in warehouses in industrial areas. They will allow an owner to operate both, but the application process is highly scrutinized for dispensaries and they are only allowing 10 as of now. Chances of getting that license are slim. I want to own both, and will be applying for both licenses, but just for arguments sake let's say I only am permitted a cultivation license. What should I expect to get per lb if I am selling to the dispensaries? As of right now I have 3 excellent pheno's ready to go, best of them being an outstanding strain of Super Lemon Haze. The other two are White Berry and Super Skunk.
Also, I know in Colorado they allow dispensaries and cultivation facilities in the same building, Vegas is going a different route. They want the dispensaries in shopping centers which are easily accessible to the public, and all grow facilities must be in warehouses in industrial areas. They will allow an owner to operate both, but the application process is highly scrutinized for dispensaries and they are only allowing 10 as of now. Chances of getting that license are slim. I want to own both, and will be applying for both licenses, but just for arguments sake let's say I only am permitted a cultivation license. What should I expect to get per lb if I am selling to the dispensaries? As of right now I have 3 excellent pheno's ready to go, best of them being an outstanding strain of Super Lemon Haze. The other two are White Berry and Super Skunk.