HydoDan
Well-Known Member
Have you done a flush? You really need to get the excess nutes out of the soil.. Deficiency usually starts at the bottom of the plant and excess shows at the top..
Deficiency?
- Thread starter big_expectations!
- Start date
Budzbuddha
Well-Known Member
Ok … was lurking this and gonna give my 2 pesos.
First , Stop chasing runoff with FFOF. That rather minor 5.8 ph is relatively normal for a slight PH SWING.
Second - this has nothing to do with nitrogen….
Your particular “ deficiency “ is the lack of K.
Potassium…. The leaf tips and margins will mimmic nute burn . Your plants are in flower so they are hungry for more PK.
Do not flush …. You will exacerbate the issue.
Synthetic nutes with FFOF will often cause issues since the important bio-life that in that nute soil gets overwhelmed by nute bottle use.
FFOF is strong enough to topdress with , no screwups with bottled nutes. Cups of fresh soil on top / water in / no ph adjust.
Simple shit. Plant started in FFOF - it became accustomed to it - so adding more via topdress and or a TEA made from soil will continue to feed it .
Again this is a K issue. Flowering plants can be PK HOGS. But just know those affected leaves will not magically go green even if you correct problem. That small yellow leaf is what happens when plants need elements it is seeking so it becomes expendable.
GL
First , Stop chasing runoff with FFOF. That rather minor 5.8 ph is relatively normal for a slight PH SWING.
Second - this has nothing to do with nitrogen….
Your particular “ deficiency “ is the lack of K.
Potassium…. The leaf tips and margins will mimmic nute burn . Your plants are in flower so they are hungry for more PK.
Do not flush …. You will exacerbate the issue.
Synthetic nutes with FFOF will often cause issues since the important bio-life that in that nute soil gets overwhelmed by nute bottle use.
FFOF is strong enough to topdress with , no screwups with bottled nutes. Cups of fresh soil on top / water in / no ph adjust.
Simple shit. Plant started in FFOF - it became accustomed to it - so adding more via topdress and or a TEA made from soil will continue to feed it .
Again this is a K issue. Flowering plants can be PK HOGS. But just know those affected leaves will not magically go green even if you correct problem. That small yellow leaf is what happens when plants need elements it is seeking so it becomes expendable.
GL
Phytoplankton
Well-Known Member
What have you done?
Nutty sKunK
Well-Known Member
How much food are you giving? Following the guide or custom strength?
big_expectations!
Active Member
Following the guide
big_expectations!
Active Member
Thanks for your input sounds like you know what you're looking at here..had same issue on my first grow..I did topdress with soil about 2 weeks ago but have continued my feed/water schedule since following gh guidelinesOk … was lurking this and gonna give my 2 pesos.
First , Stop chasing runoff with FFOF. That rather minor 5.8 ph is relatively normal for a slight PH SWING.
Second - this has nothing to do with nitrogen….
Your particular “ deficiency “ is the lack of K.
Potassium…. The leaf tips and margins will mimmic nute burn . Your plants are in flower so they are hungry for more PK.
Do not flush …. You will exacerbate the issue.
Synthetic nutes with FFOF will often cause issues since the important bio-life that in that nute soil gets overwhelmed by nute bottle use.
FFOF is strong enough to topdress with , no screwups with bottled nutes. Cups of fresh soil on top / water in / no ph adjust.
Simple shit. Plant started in FFOF - it became accustomed to it - so adding more via topdress and or a TEA made from soil will continue to feed it .
Again this is a K issue. Flowering plants can be PK HOGS. But just know those affected leaves will not magically go green even if you correct problem. That small yellow leaf is what happens when plants need elements it is seeking so it becomes expendable.
GL
Johnny15
Member
If the runoffs reading 5.5-5.8 when he's putting in 6.5 water his soil is lower than 5.8. He also overfed them which is causing some lockout. The K is probably locked out from both of these issues. Flushing with higher ph water is the first thing I'd do.Ok … was lurking this and gonna give my 2 pesos.
First , Stop chasing runoff with FFOF. That rather minor 5.8 ph is relatively normal for a slight PH SWING.
Second - this has nothing to do with nitrogen….
Your particular “ deficiency “ is the lack of K.
Potassium…. The leaf tips and margins will mimmic nute burn . Your plants are in flower so they are hungry for more PK.
Do not flush …. You will exacerbate the issue.
Synthetic nutes with FFOF will often cause issues since the important bio-life that in that nute soil gets overwhelmed by nute bottle use.
FFOF is strong enough to topdress with , no screwups with bottled nutes. Cups of fresh soil on top / water in / no ph adjust.
Simple shit. Plant started in FFOF - it became accustomed to it - so adding more via topdress and or a TEA made from soil will continue to feed it .
Again this is a K issue. Flowering plants can be PK HOGS. But just know those affected leaves will not magically go green even if you correct problem. That small yellow leaf is what happens when plants need elements it is seeking so it becomes expendable.
GL
Budzbuddha
Well-Known Member
Well you do you.
Checking “ runoff “ is unnecessary in FFOF.
Besides did he check 10% / 20% / 11.5% / 5% ?
It is an unreliable metric if you cant even factor the percentage. Flushing is a noob failsafe when they salted the medium so badly that you have to reduce salinity levels.
If he shitcanned the bottles he would be better off.
Budzbuddha
Well-Known Member
Part 2 :
That negotiable 5.8 ph swing is actually not that bad considering it held pretty close up to his current flower stage - HENCE the fresh soil topdress. By simply add that fresh soil ( cups ) he is not only “ recharging “ base mix - he is also recharging the buffering. Such simple methods will replace what the plant already used from original mix and not throw some new monkey wrench into the mix by way of “ bottles “.
Plus ….
The fresh soil will have the same oystershell components needed for PH control.
Back to the bong
It really isn’t that complicated.
That negotiable 5.8 ph swing is actually not that bad considering it held pretty close up to his current flower stage - HENCE the fresh soil topdress. By simply add that fresh soil ( cups ) he is not only “ recharging “ base mix - he is also recharging the buffering. Such simple methods will replace what the plant already used from original mix and not throw some new monkey wrench into the mix by way of “ bottles “.
Plus ….
The fresh soil will have the same oystershell components needed for PH control.
Back to the bong
It really isn’t that complicated.
Last edited:
Johnny15
Member
I agree checking ph wouldn't be necessary if he wasn't adding a bunch of ph down to the FFOF and kept it organic. But that's not the case here. He's been using GH nutes and ph down. And he's been using way too much nutes if he's been following the GH chart.
Phytoplankton
Well-Known Member
First, chasing runoff in soil usually only leads you to do something that makes it worse! The only way to get an accurate soil PH is not by measuring runoff, it's by doing a slurry test, AT LEAST 3 TIMES with soil from three different areas of the soil column. However, I don't think it's necessary. I, personally would start with a good soil flush (3x water the volume of the pot), this should leach out any accumulated salts, nutes and reset the soil. then carry on from there.
Johnny15
Member
Ya a slurry test is a better way to test ph and I know runoff isn't an accurate way to test it. I'd still bet his soil ph is a little low given the results of the runoff. I think his main problem is lockout from overfeeding though.
Phytoplankton
Well-Known Member
Certainly wouldn’t rule that out, problem is the visible symptoms of deficiency and toxicity in many nutes look very similar! That’s why I would “flush” away everything reset the soil and start anew with nutes. Other problem is if you do more than one thing at a time, you don’t know what fixed it or made it worse.
Johnny15
Member
I've been saying to flush it since page 1 but I don't think he needs to use 15 gallons. I told him he should flush it with his 8.2 ph tap water and stop using ph down.
Budzbuddha
Well-Known Member
Welp … gonna just sit back and watch this thread.
Good Luck OP.
Good Luck OP.
big_expectations!
Active Member
I'd be happy to just keep going like. I am as long as you think they would make it to harvest
DooDooPants
Member
what can you learn from this? Also what can you do to salvage what you have to the end?
First off I would be weary of flushing. It's a clear indication that the roots have been damaged once that much leaf damage is visible. Something about osmotic stress, idk that much. So flushing can help in the long run but they will then have to bounce back from soggy feet and that could further exacerbate your problems.
I recommend some plain water for the next two weeks. You can ph it if it tickles your fancy. Giving them plain water for two weeks will give them adequate oxygen at the root zone with your normal watering schedule. This will also help restore balance.
Maybe even water them to 10% runoff each time to really get any excess salts out of the soil.
They can recover and you can still get a decent end result. This is not the end.
Also how often were you feeding them? When did you start feeding them? how much, do you measure ec? thank you.
First off I would be weary of flushing. It's a clear indication that the roots have been damaged once that much leaf damage is visible. Something about osmotic stress, idk that much. So flushing can help in the long run but they will then have to bounce back from soggy feet and that could further exacerbate your problems.
I recommend some plain water for the next two weeks. You can ph it if it tickles your fancy. Giving them plain water for two weeks will give them adequate oxygen at the root zone with your normal watering schedule. This will also help restore balance.
Maybe even water them to 10% runoff each time to really get any excess salts out of the soil.
They can recover and you can still get a decent end result. This is not the end.
Also how often were you feeding them? When did you start feeding them? how much, do you measure ec? thank you.
DooDooPants
Member
two things to look out for
if the bottom leaves start turning yellow and falling off then they are ready for some food but feed lightly since the roots are damaged, also make sure you're not overwatering.
it can be normal to see more fertilizer burn after a week of plain water. As you are crossing the threshold from too much food to a balanced level of food they may get burned. I wish I had a more scientific breakdown for you.
if the bottom leaves start turning yellow and falling off then they are ready for some food but feed lightly since the roots are damaged, also make sure you're not overwatering.
it can be normal to see more fertilizer burn after a week of plain water. As you are crossing the threshold from too much food to a balanced level of food they may get burned. I wish I had a more scientific breakdown for you.
DooDooPants
Member
Hey OP (big expectations) do you have a update for us? It's always nice to learn from others. I think sometimes the roots get burned up and at that stage of flower they don't repair themselves. It becomes harder to feed and water correctly after the damage is done and a lot of leaves seem to fall off as the plant is cannibalizing itself to get food. Curious to what you did and how they are now. Thank you!
big_expectations!
Active Member
I'll post a pic in a min when I open the tent..have been doing plain water and ewc tea since posting..leaves that arent dead yet still look like shit but buds are maybe looking a little greener