CXB3590 1500W

@Supra ,i ordered the ebay driver you recommended a few posts up.50 watt 1500 ma
i am planning on buying cxb3590 3500 chips.
i plan on using the ideal holders and the 80 degree lens.
i am planning on buying the 5.88 profile from hsusa in 10 inch length unless you recommend something else for each cxb to be passively cooled.
i plan on mounting the driver to a bracket off of the heat sink.that way i can wire the driver leads right into the cob holder and just run the power cords to my power control box.
my goal is to surround 1 plant with up to 10 lights.
i plan on vegging the 1 plant to be a nice bush about 3 foot by 3 foot before flip.
do you think the lens are needed or would reflectors be sufficient?
i dont know if you can answer this but how would you figure the ppfd on this type of grow?
the plant will stretch changing the square footage.
the distance of the lights will change as the plant stretches and the coverage will have to be modified as well.
do you think 10 cxb chips will give adequate coverage on a plant that could stretch to 6 foot high and 4+ foot wide?

Your design is well researched, everything lines up for passive cooling. Since you are working with 5.88" X 10" length that opens the option to use the 10" profile for shorter fin lengths, 10"X6" length, probably even 10"X5". As long as you are not planning to switch to active cooling, the 10" profile may be the best bet. It is slightly more expensive than the 5.88" but also has a slightly thicker base. The shorter fin lengths can be especially beneficial if any of the lights will be tilted for side lighting.

Because you are running at 50W ea, the distance from the COB to the canopy will be far enough that lens/reflector will be very helpful. I am still unsure which one performs best, lens Vs reflector but I am reasonably certain that either option is a significant benefit over bare COBs.

If you are planning to wrap lights all around the plant and above, and if I estimate a 6 foot tall plant that is 4feet wide to have 45 sq ft of canopy that needs to be lit, you would need ~1125 dissipation W to get 625 PPFD. But if you are going to clear out the underbrush and light just the upper canopy (~16 sq ft) your 490W will give you ~770 PPFD, a very good intensity for a tall plant.

Iceveign said:

Thanks Supra, I don't know what we would do without you.

I do want to run the cobs softer, was wanting to stick with meanwell, but if you feel those drivers are dependable, I'm not opposed to trying them. The only thing that is beginning to bother me about my diy setup are all the dang wires hanging around. So the less components I can use the less clutter hanging around.

Click to expand...

I hear that, my wiring cleaned up a lot when I switched to series wiring rather than parallel. Passive cooling helps reduce wiring as well. I try to use bundled wire to reduce it further but technically the CL2 security cable is not cleared for carrying any significant current at these voltage levels. I use them anyway but cannot recommend that people use it without giving fair warning. They are great for fan wire though.

zep_lover said:

@Supra ,i ordered the ebay driver you recommended a few posts up.50 watt 1500 ma
i am planning on buying cxb3590 3500 chips.
i plan on using the ideal holders and the 80 degree lens.
i am planning on buying the 5.88 profile from hsusa in 10 inch length unless you recommend something else for each cxb to be passively cooled.
i plan on mounting the driver to a bracket off of the heat sink.that way i can wire the driver leads right into the cob holder and just run the power cords to my power control box.
my goal is to surround 1 plant with up to 10 lights.
i plan on vegging the 1 plant to be a nice bush about 3 foot by 3 foot before flip.
do you think the lens are needed or would reflectors be sufficient?
i dont know if you can answer this but how would you figure the ppfd on this type of grow?
the plant will stretch changing the square footage.
the distance of the lights will change as the plant stretches and the coverage will have to be modified as well.
do you think 10 cxb chips will give adequate coverage on a plant that could stretch to 6 foot high and 4+ foot wide?

Click to expand...

Hmmmm... four feet wide by six feet tall, huh? Why does that sound so familiar? LOL

Whether or not your plant fills it, you use the whole trellis because you're lighting the whole trellis.

For my suspiciously similar size and shape, I'm planning to drive 16 CXB3590 @50W each, for 800 total watts and 824 PPfD.

ttystikk said:

How is this considered wasteful in your world?
View attachment 3498996

Click to expand...

Bonjour
Are you telling me that your cob can light a 3 feets tall plant from the top to the end!? Or maybe you use side light in supplement?? But on the picture the first foot look in the shades...
It is just curiosity...cause I only grow my plants regarding to my lights capabilities (4 inches more in fact...)! If my cxb 3590 can light 2feets deep, so my plants going to be 3ft or a little less...to avoid a too long vegg (30 days is enough for almost all hybrids...)
Have a great day ★

ttystikk said:

Hmmmm... four feet wide by six feet tall, huh? Why does that sound so familiar? LOL

Whether or not your plant fills it, you use the whole trellis because you're lighting the whole trellis.

For my suspiciously similar size and shape, I'm planning to drive 16 CXB3590 @50W each, for 800 total watts and 824 PPfD.

Click to expand...

i am planning on putting the same fencing you use on your trellis but wrap it around the plant.i am not sure what size the plant will end up.i have not tried this style of grow before.
i want to try so i dont have to shape and and tie the plant up and just let it grow.it should veg faster without trimming and bending it to fit my screens.

SupraSPL said:

s.

If you are planning to wrap lights all around the plant and above, and if I estimate a 6 foot tall plant that is 4feet wide to have 45 sq ft of canopy that needs to be lit, you would need ~1125 dissipation W to get 625 PPFD. But if you are going to clear out the underbrush and light just the upper canopy (~16 sq ft) your 490W will give you ~770 PPFD, a very good intensity for a tall plant.

Click to expand...

i will be cleaning out the inside of the plant.i might try one from the top only and 1 surrounded by the same number of lights.
i think even though there wont be the same ppfd with the lights spread around,the light from one side should penetrate to contribute on the other side and vs versa.
that is my biggest question of this idea i have.
if 490 watts can grow a 6 foot tall plant from the top down,i would think the light should do better with the same watts spread evenly around it.
hopefully my test will work well and i will post a journel about it!

littlejacob said:

Bonjour
Are you telling me that your cob can light a 3 feets tall plant from the top to the end!? Or maybe you use side light in supplement?? But on the picture the first foot look in the shades...
It is just curiosity...cause I only grow my plants regarding to my lights capabilities (4 inches more in fact...)! If my cxb 3590 can light 2feets deep, so my plants going to be 3ft or a little less...to avoid a too long vegg (30 days is enough for almost all hybrids...)
Have a great day ★

Click to expand...

Bonjour!
The entire 2m tall plant is lit from the side; the tops touch the ceiling. Therefore, the whole plant is lit from bottom to top on the far side. It just looks dark in the pic because it's taken from the back.

ttystikk said:

Bonjour!
The entire 2m tall plant is lit from the side; the tops touch the ceiling. Therefore, the whole plant is lit from bottom to top on the far side. It just looks dark in the pic because it's taken from the back.

Click to expand...

@Supra after seeing how there is no depth on ttystikk's plant,is there a lower power option to get the same ppfd as efficiently on the screen since that style of growing doe not need the penetration of the cxb and use alot more low power ones directly in front of said trellis?that is another of my designs i never had the time or plant count to attempt.

SupraSPL said:

Your design is well researched, everything lines up for passive cooling. Since you are working with 5.88" X 10" length that opens the option to use the 10" profile for shorter fin lengths, 10"X6" length, probably even 10"X5". As long as you are not planning to switch to active cooling, the 10" profile may be the best bet. It is slightly more expensive than the 5.88" but also has a slightly thicker base. The shorter fin lengths can be especially beneficial if any of the lights will be tilted for side lighting.

Because you are running at 50W ea, the distance from the COB to the canopy will be far enough that lens/reflector will be very helpful. I am still unsure which one performs best, lens Vs reflector but I am reasonably certain that either option is a significant benefit over bare COBs.

If you are planning to wrap lights all around the plant and above, and if I estimate a 6 foot tall plant that is 4feet wide to have 45 sq ft of canopy that needs to be lit, you would need ~1125 dissipation W to get 625 PPFD. But if you are going to clear out the underbrush and light just the upper canopy (~16 sq ft) your 490W will give you ~770 PPFD, a very good intensity for a tall plant.

Click to expand...

if i use the 10.0 inch profile at 5 inches it is a few cents cheaper then the 10 inch 5.88 profile.

zep_lover said:

@Supra after seeing how there is no depth on ttystikk's plant,is there a lower power option to get the same ppfd as efficiently on the screen since that style of growing doe not need the penetration of the cxb and use alot more low power ones directly in front of said trellis?that is another of my designs i never had the time or plant count to attempt.

Click to expand...

Depth isn't zero. Decent penetration is well utilized by a well trained vertical canopy.

ttystikk said:

Depth isn't zero. Decent penetration is well utilized by a well trained vertical canopy.

Click to expand...

depth is not zero but my vero 10 veg light penetrates more then 6 inches.the cobs penetrate more then a couple of feet.my screens are usually only 6 to 8 inches deep.i keep everything pretty much 1 layer.even my 5 year old commercially built 1 and 3 watt leds could have handled a 1 layer scrog but they sure sucked growing even a 2 foot plant.now with making your own arrays you can spread the lower wattage leds over a huge area and the lower power enables cheap heat sinks.that is why i was doing some stoned thinking on the subject!

SupraSPL said:

That heatsink is good for about 41W of heat passive cooled or 125W active cooled. So you could run that setup but you would need a 140mm fan for active cooling and you might need a lot vertical height because that is a lot of PAR W in a concentrated lamp.

If you want to run them softer to use that heatsink passively, they would need to be at about 1.4A. You could use a pair of these:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/50w-Waterproof-LED-Power-Supply-Driver-F-50Watt-High-power-LED-Chip-Bulb-85-265V-/221661755959?hash=item339c11fa37

Click to expand...

So will the hlg-80h-c700ma meanwell driver work? I tried to link it but failed.



I wish I could find some voltage, amp, wattage dummy chart to study because I'm getting tired of asking you guys the same old questions, and I'm sure your tired of it too.

zep_lover said:

depth is not zero but my vero 10 veg light penetrates more then 6 inches.the cobs penetrate more then a couple of feet.my screens are usually only 6 to 8 inches deep.i keep everything pretty much 1 layer.even my 5 year old commercially built 1 and 3 watt leds could have handled a 1 layer scrog but they sure sucked growing even a 2 foot plant.now with making your own arrays you can spread the lower wattage leds over a huge area and the lower power enables cheap heat sinks.that is why i was doing some stoned thinking on the subject!

Click to expand...

Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE goes the route of saving watts and keeping the amount of light about the same. I haven't seen anyone simply use the equivalent wattage of COB LED that at they're used to for HID and take the performance improvements as extra light... which is what I'm about to do.

Therefore I had to do some serious thinking and upgrading when it came to the cooling system. More on that later.

Meanwhile, buds on my own vertical ScrOG canopies can stick fifteen and even sometimes eighteen inches out from the trellis. If I'm getting light from multiple angles, I'm getting better penetration. Plenty of intensity is just as important for a vertical ScrOG as it is for flatlanders.

Hello everyone, long time lurker absorbing as much knowledge as possible from you guys, so a big thank you!
I want to build a couple of prototypes and be able to easily move the lights around individually, so i like the idea of mounting them on the active alpine/arctic coolers many recommend here. I want to test the cxb3590, cxb3070 and the vero 29 with lenses, my questions are, will the CXB3590 lenses be able to be screwed on the Arctic 64 Plus CPU cooler? Kingbrite says those lenses are 100mm, so not sure if heatsink is too small for the lenses. I prefer this option than getting heatsink and fan seperately.
My other question is about the 60 degree lenses and the footprint they have at certain heights?

Iceveign said:

So will the hlg-80h-c700ma meanwell driver work? I tried to link it but failed.
I wish I could find some voltage, amp, wattage dummy chart to study

Click to expand...

Not sure why the link failed, it is ebay.com item number 221661755959.

You can use the COB efficiency charts to find the Vf at each drive current or you can use the Cree PCT. Once you know the voltage for each COB you add it up and if it comes in below the max voltage for the driver you are good to go. Example: Cree CXB3590 36V class, driven at 1.4A is 34.9V per COB. The HLG-120H-1400 has a max voltage of 108V so you could fit 3 CXB3590s. If you used an HLG-185H-C1400 the max voltage is 143 so you could fit 4 CXB3590s.

The HLG-80H-C700 has a max voltage of 129V so you could run almost 4 CXB3590 36V class but you might get slighlty under 700mA and that driver is only 91.5% efficient. Not a huge deal but I figure we might as well try to take advantage of the 94% efficiency on the HLG120 and HLG185 whenever possible. Also the HLG series is a relatively expensive driver series and the HLG-185H is the best value/Watt.

I like the idea of a driver sheet for dummies, I am constantly looking up the max Vf for each driver I will try to put something together for the most commonly used drivers and post it on the sticky. For now you can see them here:
http://www.meanwellusa.com/product/led/LED.html

You can see the Vf at Tj 50C for CXB3590 36V class in the 5th column. You can just double it for the 72V class.

zep_lover said:

if i use the 10.0 inch profile at 5 inches it is a few cents cheaper then the 10 inch 5.88 profile.

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Right I mean cost/surface is higher for the 10" profile, but if you can get the job done with less surface area you could either save some $ and weight or use the full 6" and get somewhat better cooling for the COBs.

zep_lover said:

@Supra after seeing how there is no depth on ttystikk's plant,is there a lower power option to get the same ppfd as efficiently on the screen since that style of growing doe not need the penetration of the cxb and use alot more low power ones directly in front of said trellis?that is another of my designs i never had the time or plant count to attempt.

Click to expand...

That is a good question, I tend to have an uneven 3D canopy so if yours is very even on the screen you probably could get good results with lower PPFD but it seems that 2D approach would also translate to a lower yield in that space unless you were using a stacked shelving SOG style?

jamaican gum said:

Hello everyone, long time lurker absorbing as much knowledge as possible from you guys, so a big thank you!
I want to build a couple of prototypes and be able to easily move the lights around individually, so i like the idea of mounting them on the active alpine/arctic coolers many recommend here. I want to test the cxb3590, cxb3070 and the vero 29 with lenses, my questions are, will the CXB3590 lenses be able to be screwed on the Arctic 64 Plus CPU cooler? Kingbrite says those lenses are 100mm, so not sure if heatsink is too small for the lenses. I prefer this option than getting heatsink and fan seperately.
My other question is about the 60 degree lenses and the footprint they have at certain heights?

Click to expand...

I've never used a alpine64. But the 80*kb lenses will fit on a alpine11+ even with the little elevated chip mounting zone. Which should decrease the focus slightly being closer to the glass(not an ideal les to lens, but it fits)

I would suspect it to fit on the 64 too.

Plenty of info on optical performance in here
https://www.rollitup.org/t/how-to-plot-ppf-chart-with-quantum-sensors-for-led-light-comparison.881113/

SupraSPL said:

That is a good question, I tend to have an uneven 3D canopy so if yours is very even on the screen you probably could get good results with lower PPFD but it seems that 2D approach would also translate to a lower yield in that space unless you were using a stacked shelving SOG style?

Click to expand...

Reducing light on a vertical trellis is going to hurt yield.