Converting from synthetic line - need recommendations

speakheavy

Member
Hi everyone.

I currently use the general hydro nutrient line (full line like all 11 bottles) for my grows and I would really love to convert to a fully organic feeding system. However, I don't know of any brands really other than Earth Juice.
The entire line doesn't need to be the same brand, I'd just prefer great quality all around, I just invested in the whole GH line because it was simple and easy to follow, now I'd like to replace each component of that system. Thanks for all recommendations in advance.

Also off topic, but what are your favorite strains to grow indoors? I've only grown 3 different ones so far and would like to Branch out. Not a crazy amount of space to work with. Thanks
 

Richard Drysift

Well-Known Member
Earth juice products are not organic they just sound that way. A lot of stuff out there says it is "organic" but there are actually very few bottled nutrients that are OMRI listed & known to be safe for living soil. There are soluble npk sources that are organic but they will not sustain plants through to harvest all on their own. Liquid fish emulsion comes to mind.
It's the soil itself that makes a grow organic. It is not just a medium to hold the roots; it is literally everything. The idea is to put what is needed into the soil before it is. Then all you have to do is water the plants. There isn't anything comparable to a full nutrient line because your plants did not really need all the stuff in those 11 bottles anyway. Cha- Ching!!!
All plants need is a good base soil and compost; & preferably a clean water source. Compost provides the microbes and fungi needed to feed your plants and worm castings are the best source. Clean water prolongs the sustainability of your soil mix. A worm's gullet contains most of the microbes needed to decompose organic material in your mix and in turn feed the plants. Whatever else you add is broken down slowly and released as it turns to humus. Mycorrhizae fungi attaches to the root system and helps plants absorb what they need as they need it. It's symbiosis of all these things living in the soil working together that makes a grow organic.
So many good strains out there it's hard to pin down just a few but some of my favorites i have grown:

Devils Harvest Strawberry Sour Diesel

HSO blueberry headband

Bomb seeds Cherry Bomb
 

LinguaPeel

Well-Known Member
You only have to use ferts when you pull a major mental fuck up and decide to grow hydroponic internet pretendo weed after listening to a poorly crafted sales pitch about how weed needs to be pumped full of chemicals. Seriously.. Microbes make ferts the strain actually wants. Thats how you know American legal weed is fucked without even smoking it, they use fucking grow store bullshit on a commercial scale!
 

Renfro

Well-Known Member
If you wanna grow organic look at TLO and get your soil right. Then you don't need nutes. This is hard to do so don't expect great results the first time. I will stick with my bottles of chemicals lol. They work and I have been told many time that my weed is the best so I am not concerned. Chemical nutes are easy peasy and I like that. No time for playing with worm bins and compost.
 

speakheavy

Member
Earth juice products are not organic they just sound that way. A lot of stuff out there says it is "organic" but there are actually very few bottled nutrients that are OMRI listed & known to be safe for living soil. There are soluble npk sources that are organic but they will not sustain plants through to harvest all on their own. Liquid fish emulsion comes to mind.
It's the soil itself that makes a grow organic. It is not just a medium to hold the roots; it is literally everything. The idea is to put what is needed into the soil before it is. Then all you have to do is water the plants. There isn't anything comparable to a full nutrient line because your plants did not really need all the stuff in those 11 bottles anyway. Cha- Ching!!!
All plants need is a good base soil and compost; & preferably a clean water source. Compost provides the microbes and fungi needed to feed your plants and worm castings are the best source. Clean water prolongs the sustainability of your soil mix. A worm's gullet contains most of the microbes needed to decompose organic material in your mix and in turn feed the plants. Whatever else you add is broken down slowly and released as it turns to humus. Mycorrhizae fungi attaches to the root system and helps plants absorb what they need as they need it. It's symbiosis of all these things living in the soil working together that makes a grow organic.
So many good strains out there it's hard to pin down just a few but some of my favorites i have grown:

Devils Harvest Strawberry Sour Diesel

HSO blueberry headband

Bomb seeds Cherry Bomb
If you wanna grow organic look at TLO and get your soil right. Then you don't need nutes. This is hard to do so don't expect great results the first time. I will stick with my bottles of chemicals lol. They work and I have been told many time that my weed is the best so I am not concerned. Chemical nutes are easy peasy and I like that. No time for playing with worm bins and compost.
So I'm better off looking into a soil like fox farm ocean forest or something from roots organics and possibly some realgrowers recharge or Myco for microbe assurance? Maybe some fish emulsion for a rainy day..
 

Richard Drysift

Well-Known Member
FFOF is good. Sunshine mix is good. Roots Organic is good. Any decent organic garden soil like Kellogs will work. Most important is compost. Get a bigass bag of worm castings. Recharge is like powdered "Sea monkey" microbes; its a bullshit product marketed by internet radio assholes imo. No way it is as active as bagged worm castings and fresh castings from a bin are even more dank. Compost is your microbe assurance agent.
Granular mycorrhizae is needed only for transplants but even generic brands work well. Maybe you don't need it right away because ewc will have some fungi in it already. Use it contact with the roots for your final size or mid-veg containers. A tiny bit is all you need but seems like they always want to sell you a bigass bag of it. Lasts for years.
Fertilizer is something I didn't mention before but manure like cow or chicken is slow release feed. I sprinkle some chicken manure in the bottom of every container. If there was only one thing I could use as fertilizer that would be it. Charlie's compost brand is great and a 10lb bag at $18 lasts a long time. Great source of N and loaded with bacteria. Thing is it's kind of hot so to offset it add some crushed oyster shell right on top to help buffer ph. For your final bloom pots push in a couple jobes fertilizer spikes. They feed for 8 weeks; perfect for bloom phase.
Fish emulsion makes the plants all happy and shiny; good for "general maintenance." Low soluble npk value but it makes them pray to you in homage. I use it mainly for plants in veg or anytime they start to look pale. Neptunes harvest with seaweed.....that's great bass!
So your organic shopping list:
Decent soil
Worm castings
Chicken or cow manure
Crushed oyster shell
Mycorrhizae
Liquid fish
Jobes organic spikes (AP garden flower)
 

speakheavy

Member
FFOF is good. Sunshine mix is good. Roots Organic is good. Any decent organic garden soil like Kellogs will work. Most important is compost. Get a bigass bag of worm castings. Recharge is like powdered "Sea monkey" microbes; its a bullshit product marketed by internet radio assholes imo. No way it is as active as bagged worm castings and fresh castings from a bin are even more dank. Compost is your microbe assurance agent.
Granular mycorrhizae is needed only for transplants but even generic brands work well. Maybe you don't need it right away because ewc will have some fungi in it already. Use it contact with the roots for your final size or mid-veg containers. A tiny bit is all you need but seems like they always want to sell you a bigass bag of it. Lasts for years.
Fertilizer is something I didn't mention before but manure like cow or chicken is slow release feed. I sprinkle some chicken manure in the bottom of every container. If there was only one thing I could use as fertilizer that would be it. Charlie's compost brand is great and a 10lb bag at $18 lasts a long time. Great source of N and loaded with bacteria. Thing is it's kind of hot so to offset it add some crushed oyster shell right on top to help buffer ph. For your final bloom pots push in a couple jobes fertilizer spikes. They feed for 8 weeks; perfect for bloom phase.
Fish emulsion makes the plants all happy and shiny; good for "general maintenance." Low soluble npk value but it makes them pray to you in homage. I use it mainly for plants in veg or anytime they start to look pale. Neptunes harvest with seaweed.....that's great bass!
So your organic shopping list:
Decent soil
Worm castings
Chicken or cow manure
Crushed oyster shell
Mycorrhizae
Liquid fish
Jobes organic spikes (AP garden flower)
What would you say the ratios of mixing all this together would be?
 

Richard Drysift

Well-Known Member
I don't know how many plants you intend to grow so I have no idea what your needs are but let's say you get two 1.5 cu ft bags of FFOF soil. Mix that with up to 50% worm castings. That could make it sorta mucky so maybe add in a few handfuls of perlite for aeration. Put about 2 tsp of oyster shell and 2-4 tablespoons of chicken manure per container. A sprinkle layer of myco like cinnamon on toast is all you need at transplants. Accuracy is not needed; just eyeball everything. You really can't fuck this up..
 

speakheavy

Member
I don't know how many plants you intend to grow so I have no idea what your needs are but let's say you get two 1.5 cu ft bags of FFOF soil. Mix that with up to 50% worm castings. That could make it sorta mucky so maybe add in a few handfuls of perlite for aeration. Put about 2 tsp of oyster shell and 2-4 tablespoons of chicken manure per container. A sprinkle layer of myco like cinnamon on toast is all you need at transplants. Accuracy is not needed; just eyeball everything. You really can't fuck this up..
It'd most likely be in a 5-7 gallon pot per plant, I usually only grow 3-4 plants at once and scrogg them to make them nice and thick. The only other step after all that is to throw in 2 or 3 spikes when I flip the lights to 12/12 and just have my fish emulsion handy if its needed. Do you foliar feed at all? I only ask because I have a whole bottle of super thrive Id prefer not to go to waste but if its not needed I can use it for house plants and veggies haha. Also any mollasses or such to feed microbes? or they're all set with the manure / castings as is
 

Richard Drysift

Well-Known Member
You can add fertilizer spikes at any time I just like using them for bloom phase. 2 per 5-7 gal is enough. You can also use fish emulsion at any point of growth although I typically use it only in veg as needed. I don't want you to get the impression it's for treating deficiencies because it's really not. Liquid fish is for maintenance at all stages but I don't use it regularly only because my soil has been recycled many times over and over again. They usually don't need it until the plants completely fill out their pots. It takes a few recycles before your mix attains high levels of microbial activity.
Use the molasses to make worm tea; some use it in their mix to feed the microbes and that is fine. Adding a form of diluted sucrose feeds microbes but it won't do as much as if you bubble it with some ewc and make a simple tea. I don't folar feed but if I was to it would be with worm compost tea. A garden pump sprayed works well for this; I spray my lawn with one. Super thrive is not organic btw; not OMRI rated.
 

speakheavy

Member
You can add fertilizer spikes at any time I just like using them for bloom phase. 2 per 5-7 gal is enough. You can also use fish emulsion at any point of growth although I typically use it only in veg as needed. I don't want you to get the impression it's for treating deficiencies because it's really not. Liquid fish is for maintenance at all stages but I don't use it regularly only because my soil has been recycled many times over and over again. They usually don't need it until the plants completely fill out their pots. It takes a few recycles before your mix attains high levels of microbial activity.
Use the molasses to make worm tea; some use it in their mix to feed the microbes and that is fine. Adding a form of diluted sucrose feeds microbes but it won't do as much as if you bubble it with some ewc and make a simple tea. I don't folar feed but if I was to it would be with worm compost tea. A garden pump sprayed works well for this; I spray my lawn with one. Super thrive is not organic btw; not OMRI rated.
Thanks for the info!
How do you reuse your soil with the old rootball? I've always been interested in this process. Do you need to reamend with castings/chicken manure etc?
 

Richard Drysift

Well-Known Member
Yes there's a lot to this actually but the idea is to put compost along with npk and mineral inputs back in the "spent" soil. You just take the your old dried out root ball and throw it in a bin or something with:
more compost, maybe a slow release fertilizer input like manure, mineral inputs like d-lime and oyster shell, and other npk inputs like neem meal that must be broken down first before it is available. Then just let it set for 30 days; commonly referred to as "cooking" the soil. Keeping it hydrated for 30 days or more allows whatever inputs you added to normalize the ph. Usually when you add a bunch of raw undecomposed organic materials the ph will drop slightly so cooking it in lets it all begin breaking down. The decomposition process itself needs kind of a head start.
Theres a book called True Living Organics by the Rev that explains everything I'm saying plus soil recipes, suggested amendments, and tea recipes for all stages of growth. Tremendously helpful resource but it's a bit more complex imo than it needs to be. Keep it simple and find what works best for you.
 

PadawanWarrior

Well-Known Member
Earth juice products are not organic they just sound that way. A lot of stuff out there says it is "organic" but there are actually very few bottled nutrients that are OMRI listed & known to be safe for living soil. There are soluble npk sources that are organic but they will not sustain plants through to harvest all on their own. Liquid fish emulsion comes to mind.
It's the soil itself that makes a grow organic. It is not just a medium to hold the roots; it is literally everything. The idea is to put what is needed into the soil before it is. Then all you have to do is water the plants. There isn't anything comparable to a full nutrient line because your plants did not really need all the stuff in those 11 bottles anyway. Cha- Ching!!!
All plants need is a good base soil and compost; & preferably a clean water source. Compost provides the microbes and fungi needed to feed your plants and worm castings are the best source. Clean water prolongs the sustainability of your soil mix. A worm's gullet contains most of the microbes needed to decompose organic material in your mix and in turn feed the plants. Whatever else you add is broken down slowly and released as it turns to humus. Mycorrhizae fungi attaches to the root system and helps plants absorb what they need as they need it. It's symbiosis of all these things living in the soil working together that makes a grow organic.
So many good strains out there it's hard to pin down just a few but some of my favorites i have grown:

Devils Harvest Strawberry Sour Diesel

HSO blueberry headband

Bomb seeds Cherry Bomb
I've been using Earth Juice for a year now and have been really happy with it. Great tasting buds. I'm pretty sure it's 100% organic, at least according to what I've read. Maybe not the ph up or down, but I don't know since I don't use them. Here's one of the links I read awhile back.
http://marijuanagrowershq.com/earth-juice-organic-fertilizers-organic-marijuana-made-easy/
 

kratos015

Well-Known Member
I always like to tell people starting off that our shit is technically organic, but this doesn't make it good or useful! Please don't interpret that statement as sarcasm or me being a dick because I'm quite serious, allow me to explain.

A few things need to be kept in mind when looking into "organics". This is going to be a bit of a novel, but it will perfectly outline the facts that; 1) "Organics" is a vague term, 2) Organic soil and living soil are similar, but not the same, and 3) There is a lot of deception concerning "organics" due to the fact the OMRI and USDA are essentially shills and scam artists, as well as the fact that "organic" compounds can be synthesized in a lab from their respective derivatives.

First, let's analyze the definition of organic. 1) "noting or pertaining to a class of chemical compounds that formerly comprised only those existing in or derived from plants or animals, but that now includes all other compounds of carbon." and 2) "characteristic of, pertaining to, or derived from living organisms". So, as you can see, organic is an incredibly vague term. The main word that I want to emphasize here is derived. Anyone here that's taken calculus knows full well that the derivative is not the same as the original input. The derivative of x^2 (x squared) is 2x, the graphs for x^2 and 2x are completely different things. So why do I point this out? Let's take those bottled "organic" fertilizers that people use. I can't analyze the Earth Grow products because you can't find information about the ingredients in them! Always a bad sign! Let's take a look at Fox Farm's "Grow Big" and "Big Bloom" products instead, at least they will list ingredients! Grow Big is "derived" from Worm Castings, Kelp, Ammonium Nitrate, and a whole host of other organic compounds that have been synthesized instead of produced naturally. Big Bloom is derived from guano and worm castings. I'll get into the differences between the original and derivatives in point #2, but for now what needs to be emphasized here is that fresh worm castings are not the same as a bottle of liquid that has been derived from fresh worm castings. This is being generous and assuming they're fresh and full of microbiology. I can take old worm castings devoid of life and make a "tea" out of it, it's technically derived from worm castings but that doesn't make it good by any means. Much like x^2 is not the same as 2x, so too are fresh castings and liquid castings completely different.

Secondly, we'll analyze the differences between an organic soil and a living soil. Let's compare Fox Farm's soil+nutrient line up to that of Clackamas Coot's/Cornell University's living soil mix. Now, Fox Farm's Ocean Forest and Happy Frog are actually good products. Way overpriced for what they are, and certainly not fresh or alive if you made it yourself, but it's a good product. FF's soils are filled with plenty of organic inputs such as kelp, worm castings (EWC), guano, etc. However, the soil isn't "alive" until you've watered it for a bit and allowed things to breakdown and get colonized by microbes. Eventually, if you use Tiger Bloom (not organic) you'll kill what little microbiology you were able to cultivate simply by using one of their products. These products are technically organic because they have organic inputs in them, but they are not alive.

Coot's/Cornell's recipe is significantly different, mainly because it requires the freshest and most quality compost you can source. This typically involves doing it yourself. Coot's Worm Castings take nearly a year to make because he meticulously develops his own high quality compost over months worth of time, then feeds this compost+neem meal and Oyster Shell Flour to his worms which in turn provide some of the best quality worm castings you can find. He then mixes his EWC with equal parts peat moss and aeration, then amends it with crab/kelp/neem meals and a blend of minerals (Basalt and Glacial Rock Dust I believe). So how is this different? Well, those quality worm castings that have taken months to produce are filled with billions upon billions of microbes where as bags of soil have little to no life in them at all. Once the EWC/microbes are added to the Peat Moss and organic amendments, they start breaking these inputs down immediately. So rather than having to wait months to cultivate a mediocre microbiology, you have compost that has been doing this for months for you instead. The life is what makes the soil work, not the inputs. This is why people tend to fail at "organics" when they try it, because they're used to hydro. In hydro/soil you are feeding the plants. In a living soil you are feeding the microbes, which then feed your plants for you. These microbes latch on to the plants roots and form a symbiotic relationship with one another. The roots and microbes interact with one another and go through great lengths to keep each other alive. In a living soil, the roots exude signals via terpenes to the microbes to signal what they need. The microbes will then proceed to munch on the amendments in the soil and defecate the nutrients near the roots for the plant to absorb them. So, if your plant needs Phosphorus, the plant's root exude terpenes inside the soil to signal to the microbes that it needs Phosphorus. The microbes then start eating the Crab Meal (2-4-1 NPK) and then shit the processed food near the roots for the plant to intake. Notice how we aren't actually taking care of the plant, we're feeding the microbes that take care of the plant. Microbes do so much more than provide food, they go after pests, they break down chlorine, they automatically adjust the pH of the soil, and so much more.

Finally, the deception concerning "organics" and why the OMRI/USDA can't be trusted. Remember how we analyzed how vague the word organic is earlier? This is where the deception comes from and where my topic sentence was coming from. I can take a shit and put it on my plants. My shit is technically "organic" but that doesn't mean it's filled with life or a good source of nutrition. Even if a human's diet is 100% perfect, it will still pale in comparison to chicken/cow shit because of how different a human's stomach processes things as opposed to various animals. Things may be organic, but that doesn't mean they are full of life.

So, in closing, you want a living soil and not just an organic soil. Google "Clackamas Coot's soil recipe" and you're going to find threads that are 100s upon 100s of pages long. Read every single last page, all of it. It will be well worth your time and then some! I've used this recipe for over 5 years now and can't recommend it enough. It is as effective as it is simple! It's simply a 1:1:1 ratio of Peat Moss, Aeration, and Compost amended with Crab/Kelp/Neem meals and minerals. That's it. Less than 10 ingredients with a culmulative NPK ratio of roughly 9-5-3 in veg and 3-5-3 in flower.

And just to show the results of his soil..

20190509_171240.jpg

20190817_185616.jpg

Those were taken 3 months apart and is the same plant. It is only in 20 gallons of Coot's/Cornell U's soil recipe, buried in the ground. This is one of 5 plants (trees) inside of a 10x16x8 greenhouse in a mere 20 gallons of soil. They're all 8ft tall and trained heavily to keep them under 8ft for discretion/legal purposes. The diameter of them is anywhere between 5-10ft wide due to training. I'm not trying to brag about my "ability", I have no ability as I'm not doing the work. I'm bragging about the ability of the life in the soil and the work these billions and billions of microbes are putting in! And it takes little to no work either! I only top dress every 2-4 weeks and water, that's it.

Your results in organics will be directly proportional to the amount of life in the soil. I recommend reading Teeming with Microbes, that book has a wealth of information in it. The ROLS sticky thread on here is also worth the read, every single page. And finally, google "Clackamas Coot's soil recipe" until you find threads/stickys from other forums. You'll know it's the right thread because it'll have 300-400+ pages in it. Read every single last page of everything I just mentioned and you will have little to no questions and will be armed with a wealth of information that will allow you to grow not only some of the best cannabis, but fruits and vegetables as well.

This information needs to be free. If everyone in the world grew food in this soil there would be a revolution in the agricultural industry over night.

Edit: And by the way, The Rev is an amateur and his TLO book is mediocre and outdated at best. Same with Subcool. The difference between them is that at least Subcool admits he doesn't know what he's talking about and simply shares his recipe because it's what works for him, he constantly admits he knows nothing about living soil and there's a better way to do things. The Rev is an egotistical jackass that thinks he knows everything despite knowing nothing.
 

Richard Drysift

Well-Known Member
"Your results in organics will be directly proportional to the amount of life in the soil."
-kratos015

This is an awesome post and truly great advice. Very well explained although you kinda lost me on derivatives; I barely passed algebra. The Rev is without question an egotistical jackass but I actually got a lot out of the TLO book. If by outdated you mean old school soil methods maybe you are right. Coots mix and/or super soil is not much different than a TLO mix give or take some ingredients. It's all the same idea; making a water only soil mix. Same methods used by mj growers for decades.

How you do it is really about what is available to you. I don't follow all of the Revs recipes or methods because a lot of it is overly complex and unnecessary. Making up your own mix is for soil geeks with time to spare; I just want to water my plants and go to work. If I never read about TLO I would have never got a worm bin but so glad I did now as it was a total game changporzr. In order to be successful growing without anything from a bottle you need access to compost and clean water. I wish somebody had told me this a long time ago.

I got into organic growing because I was tired of giving my money to flat brimmed bros at the hydro store that sold me crap I didn't need. They gave me bad advice to close more sales. Once i finally did a grow without nutes Ilinever went back; such amazing flavors. For me it's about sustainability; Living soil grows require less cost and effort plus I never have to go to a hydro store again.
Teeming with microbes is an excellent book but it's more like a primer in earth science than a grow guide. Very good information to learn but I gotta admit I got bored & sorta skimmed through stuff like the genus heirarchy of arthropods and life cycle of nematodes. Felt like doing homework to me but then again I am a simpleton. TLO is cannabis specific even though the author totally believes himself to be the worlds foremost authority on cannabis.

I've been using Earth Juice for a year now and have been really happy with it. Great tasting buds. I'm pretty sure it's 100% organic, at least according to what I've read. Maybe not the ph up or down, but I don't know since I don't use them. Here's one of the links I read awhile back.
http://marijuanagrowershq.com/earth-juice-organic-fertilizers-organic-marijuana-made-easy/
Nothing wrong with using nutrients. Soup style organics is a real thing but not for living soils. Anything with an npk value higher than 5 should not be in a natural soil grow. High npk value can shock the fungi... hey hey
 

speakheavy

Member
"Your results in organics will be directly proportional to the amount of life in the soil."
-kratos015

This is an awesome post and truly great advice. Very well explained although you kinda lost me on derivatives; I barely passed algebra. The Rev is without question an egotistical jackass but I actually got a lot out of the TLO book. If by outdated you mean old school soil methods maybe you are right. Coots mix and/or super soil is not much different than a TLO mix give or take some ingredients. It's all the same idea; making a water only soil mix. Same methods used by mj growers for decades.

How you do it is really about what is available to you. I don't follow all of the Revs recipes or methods because a lot of it is overly complex and unnecessary. Making up your own mix is for soil geeks with time to spare; I just want to water my plants and go to work. If I never read about TLO I would have never got a worm bin but so glad I did now as it was a total game changporzr. In order to be successful growing without anything from a bottle you need access to compost and clean water. I wish somebody had told me this a long time ago.

I got into organic growing because I was tired of giving my money to flat brimmed bros at the hydro store that sold me crap I didn't need. They gave me bad advice to close more sales. Once i finally did a grow without nutes Ilinever went back; such amazing flavors. For me it's about sustainability; Living soil grows require less cost and effort plus I never have to go to a hydro store again.
Teeming with microbes is an excellent book but it's more like a primer in earth science than a grow guide. Very good information to learn but I gotta admit I got bored & sorta skimmed through stuff like the genus heirarchy of arthropods and life cycle of nematodes. Felt like doing homework to me but then again I am a simpleton. TLO is cannabis specific even though the author totally believes himself to be the worlds foremost authority on cannabis.


Nothing wrong with using nutrients. Soup style organics is a real thing but not for living soils. Anything with an npk value higher than 5 should not be in a natural soil grow. High npk value can shock the fungi... hey hey
I got ocean forest and roots organics, gonna mix them half and half since I couldn't decide and then mix that with the castings and everything else. When I am done I think I may invest in the clackmas coot mineral pack for a reamending after letting my soil sit, I really would love to be able to reuse these 2 bags of soil for awhile. They're 1.5cu ft each and I'm just doing a small 7 gal grow in the closet so while the old soil sits in a bin for awhile and is being reamended I can use the rest of the bags right away to make 7 more gal, and switch them out every grow. I can't help but be nervous I'm going to run low on nutrients in the soil during late flower. Should I get an age old or Earth Juice flower food and just do very light doses? The only liquid supps I'm going to have handy is the fish emultion and liquid kelp. Thanks
 

PadawanWarrior

Well-Known Member
"Your results in organics will be directly proportional to the amount of life in the soil."
-kratos015

This is an awesome post and truly great advice. Very well explained although you kinda lost me on derivatives; I barely passed algebra. The Rev is without question an egotistical jackass but I actually got a lot out of the TLO book. If by outdated you mean old school soil methods maybe you are right. Coots mix and/or super soil is not much different than a TLO mix give or take some ingredients. It's all the same idea; making a water only soil mix. Same methods used by mj growers for decades.

How you do it is really about what is available to you. I don't follow all of the Revs recipes or methods because a lot of it is overly complex and unnecessary. Making up your own mix is for soil geeks with time to spare; I just want to water my plants and go to work. If I never read about TLO I would have never got a worm bin but so glad I did now as it was a total game changporzr. In order to be successful growing without anything from a bottle you need access to compost and clean water. I wish somebody had told me this a long time ago.

I got into organic growing because I was tired of giving my money to flat brimmed bros at the hydro store that sold me crap I didn't need. They gave me bad advice to close more sales. Once i finally did a grow without nutes Ilinever went back; such amazing flavors. For me it's about sustainability; Living soil grows require less cost and effort plus I never have to go to a hydro store again.
Teeming with microbes is an excellent book but it's more like a primer in earth science than a grow guide. Very good information to learn but I gotta admit I got bored & sorta skimmed through stuff like the genus heirarchy of arthropods and life cycle of nematodes. Felt like doing homework to me but then again I am a simpleton. TLO is cannabis specific even though the author totally believes himself to be the worlds foremost authority on cannabis.


Nothing wrong with using nutrients. Soup style organics is a real thing but not for living soils. Anything with an npk value higher than 5 should not be in a natural soil grow. High npk value can shock the fungi... hey hey
Wow, I did not know that. Would it be ok to use it lightly, and just keep the NPK levels all below 5?
 

Richard Drysift

Well-Known Member
Wow, I did not know that. Would it be ok to use it lightly, and just keep the NPK levels all below 5?
They are stark differences between growing in living soil and using "organic" nutrients. Don't want to steer you wrong. Sounds like you are happy with the result you get from the EJ line so use as you have been doing. I'm just saying look at the npk values of what you give them. If it's higher than 5 it can diminish microbial activity. Using it lightly could help but if you are not growing in an active living soil anyway it doesn't really matter.
I got ocean forest and roots organics, gonna mix them half and half since I couldn't decide and then mix that with the castings and everything else. When I am done I think I may invest in the clackmas coot mineral pack for a reamending after letting my soil sit, I really would love to be able to reuse these 2 bags of soil for awhile. They're 1.5cu ft each and I'm just doing a small 7 gal grow in the closet so while the old soil sits in a bin for awhile and is being reamended I can use the rest of the bags right away to make 7 more gal, and switch them out every grow. I can't help but be nervous I'm going to run low on nutrients in the soil during late flower. Should I get an age old or Earth Juice flower food and just do very light doses? The only liquid supps I'm going to have handy is the fish emultion and liquid kelp. Thanks
Soil doesn't go bad you can just keep on re-amending it for eternity. You can always revert to a nutrient if your plants get hungry in mid flower but like I said spikes feed them for weeks. Check out Jobes organic spikes. I would give them liquid fish / seaweed weekly until your mix gets up to supernatural status. Then you can just give them water. It takes several recycles to get there. Just keep on adding in worm castings as a top dress or in the mix globally. Worm teas can help prolong the efficacy of your mix into bloom phase. If they look hungry very late in bloom just give water until harvest time. It's ok if they are turning colors in the final weeks.
 

speakheavy

Member
They are stark differences between growing in living soil and using "organic" nutrients. Don't want to steer you wrong. Sounds like you are happy with the result you get from the EJ line so use as you have been doing. I'm just saying look at the npk values of what you give them. If it's higher than 5 it can diminish microbial activity. Using it lightly could help but if you are not growing in an active living soil anyway it doesn't really matter.

Soil doesn't go bad you can just keep on re-amending it for eternity. You can always revert to a nutrient if your plants get hungry in mid flower but like I said spikes feed them for weeks. Check out Jobes organic spikes. I would give them liquid fish / seaweed weekly until your mix gets up to supernatural status. Then you can just give them water. It takes several recycles to get there. Just keep on adding in worm castings as a top dress or in the mix globally. Worm teas can help prolong the efficacy of your mix into bloom phase. If they look hungry very late in bloom just give water until harvest time. It's ok if they are turning colors in the final weeks.
Would adding used coffee grounds benefit? My girlfriend works at a coffee shop and gets me used coffee grounds for soil a lot
 
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