Conversation Between rollitup and An Oranje Canadian

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fdd2blk

Well-Known Member
ViRedd said:
Well, when one considers that there are over one MILLION abortions in the United States every year, and over 40 MILLION abortions since Roe vs Wade, I'd say that we have a problem. In fact, we have several problems.

The most egregious problem is ... the idea of ANY human life being thought of as less than human. This is akin to the mindset of the slave holders of the past. In this country, we have the RIGHT to LIFE, liberty and property ... and that would include the right bestowed upon the unborn by our Creator to live. To think otherwise is anti-social, anti-liberty and anti-Man.

This is an issue, the results of which, are completely hidden from the view of the American public. Its as though the madness doesn't exist. That's why when these pictures are posted for all to see, we repel in shock, disbelief and anger. Look ... when someone says that abortion is only about "tissue matter," they SHOULD be countered with the truth for all to see. Without both sides having the opportunity to present their sides of the issue, then only one side wins. That's the object and goal of censorship.

I have nothing against Stoney's opinions being presented on the abortion issue ... none at all. However, if she is going to present her side, then no one should stand in the way of the other side being presented as well.

If one side is presented as if nothing exists except mere "tissue matter," then I, or anyone else, should be able to present a picture of a bucket-full of that "tissue matter," even if that "tissue matter" is a complete baby hacked to pieces as a result of being aborted late term.

And one other thing ... the mere fact that I am a man should not exclude me from the argument ... anymore than never being in the military should exclude me from commenting on war, or never driving in the Indy 500 should exclude me from commenting on racing. All this is, is a strawman used to stifle the debate ... and that's why the pro-abortion people use it.

Is there a time when abortion is acceptable? I don't know, what do you think?

Vi
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i don't like "gore". if it would have been a runned over kitten it would have gotten the same response from me. i have NO hidden agenda to hold back the truth. i just like to browse while i enjoy my dinner. can you stop your rant long enough to see this? :roll:

:peace::peace:
 
ViRedd

ViRedd

New Member
fdd2blk said:
i don't like "gore". if it would have been a runned over kitten it would have gotten the same response from me. i have NO hidden agenda to hold back the truth. i just like to browse while i enjoy my dinner. can you stop your rant long enough to see this?
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I wasn't referring to you specifically in my last post, fdd. I was just speaking in generalities.

And by the way ... I don't like Gore either. The man is a Loon.

Vi
 
P

PadawanBater

Guest
Well, when one considers that there are over one MILLION abortions in the United States every year, and over 40 MILLION abortions since Roe vs Wade, I'd say that we have a problem. In fact, we have several problems.
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Subjective. It's only a problem because you disagree with it. On the other hand, you could say it's a safe solution to any of these problems - unwanted children, unsafe pregnancies, rape victims, adoption rates, population limits, resource limits...

The most egregious problem is ... the idea of ANY human life being thought of as less than human. This is akin to the mindset of the slave holders of the past. In this country, we have the RIGHT to LIFE, liberty and property ... and that would include the right bestowed upon the unborn by our Creator to live. To think otherwise is anti-social, anti-liberty and anti-Man.
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Can an unborn fetus see, speak, breath, think, remember...? There's a whole host of things that living human beings can do that a fetus can't. The process of being conceived is not what makes you a human being. People don't dehumanize a fetus to get an abortion, the circumstances change with each case, but for the most part they think it through and decide what's best for them AND what would be best for the unborn fetus, how would it be a better solution for everyone involved if it was born and lived in extreme poverty, or was born with HIV? Would you rather be born with HIV and live a few years in unbearable pain or just not be born at all?

This is an issue, the results of which, are completely hidden from the view of the American public. Its as though the madness doesn't exist. That's why when these pictures are posted for all to see, we repel in shock, disbelief and anger. Look ... when someone says that abortion is only about "tissue matter," they SHOULD be countered with the truth for all to see. Without both sides having the opportunity to present their sides of the issue, then only one side wins. That's the object and goal of censorship.
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I think you should know I'm against late term abortions, I think consciousness is what determines human life, which starts to develop around the 4-5 month mark, so anything before that is fine by me, anything after is a bit of a stretch, depending on the circumstances, ie rape, incest, etc...

I see much crazier stuff than silly abortion pics all the time, those don't phase me one bit. But clearly you're using them for some shock and awe factor, howbout if I showed you some pictures of detainees being tortured by American soldiers? Should the truth be silenced in that case...?

If one side is presented as if nothing exists except mere "tissue matter," then I, or anyone else, should be able to present a picture of a bucket-full of that "tissue matter," even if that "tissue matter" is a complete baby hacked to pieces as a result of being aborted late term.
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I've never heard anyone present that argument in support of abortions, "It's only tissue"... You kind of make it seem like all abortions are for are to get rid of the unborn babies of people who fucked up and had sex without a condom and don't want to take any responsibility... It's a medical procedure to ensure safety, just like any other surgery, to make everyones lives involved better than they would be, had the thing been born.

And one other thing ... the mere fact that I am a man should not exclude me from the argument ... anymore than never being in the military should exclude me from commenting on war, or never driving in the Indy 500 should exclude me from commenting on racing. All this is, is a strawman used to stifle the debate ... and that's why the pro-abortion people use it.
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I agree with that.

Is there a time when abortion is acceptable? I don't know, what do you think?
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I would argue absolutely. Incest, the child is likely to come out either physically deformed or mentally challenged, perfectly acceptable.

Rape, the victim would have to live with the reminder of that moment their entire life, not to mention raise and care for a rapists child who has who knows what kind of conditions or genes that they passed on to their offspring, cycle cell anemia, high risk for cancer, HIV...anything, again, perfectly acceptable.

Population and resource limits, more people means less resources and space to fit everyone, a stretch, but still acceptable in the big picture. (reminds me of a story I read recently, Australian officials straight up killed 6,000 kangaroos! At first glance that sounds crazy right! But think of the rest of the population of kangaroos, with these 6,000 gone, the rest of them will most likely live regular lives without overpopulation risks..).

Unsafe pregnancies, if my wife was going to have a baby and the doctor informed me there's a high risk that she could die during the birth, I would opt to have an abortion, it seems like the most logical solution that would benefit everyone involved. To me there's no point in having the person I created this life with die on the table just so it could survive, I think it's a smarter decision (although I would be devistated) because we could always try again with better information that might produce a healthy baby and keep my wife alive, makes sense right?

 
chicoles

chicoles

Well-Known Member
Padawan

Rationalize it any way you choose.... 99.9% of all abortions have nothing to do with rape or incest. It is merely a matter of convenience for individuals whoi cannot take responsibility for their actions.
 
I

ilkhan

Well-Known Member
Yeah rationalize it any way you want man.
Its freakin' wrong, 99-100% of the time.
Rationalize it to yourself if you must.
Don't expect everyone to accept your logic.
I mean Abortion is a topic that can get real messy.
A lot of hot tempers about it.
I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole normaly.
I would sooner bring up 9-11 truth to a bunch of Bush Fans.

Now I think its wrong but I will accept it,
I will not shoot anyone anyway,
But you must accept that I should not have to pay for it.
I may have to answer to God for my sins.
I got enouph Sins of my own.
I don't need government adding to it for me.
It may be a lump of meat to you,
not to me.
I've seen my babys in sonograms sucking their thumbs.
I've felt them move from the sound of my voice.
You can't Rationalize that to me.

And Yes Gore is in fact a douche.
 
P

PadawanBater

Guest
Well what are your reasons, chicoles and ilkhan? I mean, why exactly is it wrong to get an abortion, even given some of the circumstances I presented? Poverty, born with HIV... do you think the MORE moral thing to do would be to have the kid anyway and just try to make it's life as comfortable as possible? What about in the rape or incest cases, still totally wrong?

The only people I seem to come across who are completely against abortions are the religious. Is there a non religious person out there against abortions? I'd love to hear that guys argument!

Are you guys also against stem cell research?

I agree if someone gets an abortion they should pay for it themselves.

...and one last thing, what would you suggest be done about this 'problem', make abortions illegal?
 
Stoney McFried

Stoney McFried

Well-Known Member
Get over it, already.Got a problem?PM me.You hijacked a thread of mine about an 8 year old married to a 50 year old man.Typical pro lifer...you went and ignored the child who had already been born and started talking about abortion-and posting pics to further your point because you like sensationalism.Now you drag the topic into another thread.You know, I don't post pics of all the people your pro life zealots have blown up in planned pregnancy clinics, do I? No, because I have respect for other people on this site who don't wanna see shit like that.I don't need to post incendiary pics to get my point across.I speak in my OWN words, for good or ill,and don't spend most of my days copying and pasting articles from right wing mouthpieces and turning them into threads.If you're such a staunch conservative man,get up off your computer and fight for the causes you bitch about so much.You don't have a uterus, you don't have a clue.ONCE AGAIN: you don't care as much about these aborted children as you do about punishing the "immoral" women who had them.
ViRedd said:
I have nothing against Stoney's opinions being presented on the abortion issue ... none at all. However, if she is going to present her side, then no one should stand in the way of the other side being presented as well.

If one side is presented as if nothing exists except mere "tissue matter," then I, or anyone else, should be able to present a picture of a bucket-full of that "tissue matter," even if that "tissue matter" is a complete baby hacked to pieces as a result of being aborted late term.

And one other thing ... the mere fact that I am a man should not exclude me from the argument ... anymore than never being in the military should exclude me from commenting on war, or never driving in the Indy 500 should exclude me from commenting on racing. All this is, is a strawman used to stifle the debate ... and that's why the pro-abortion people use it.

Is there a time when abortion is acceptable? I don't know, what do you think?

Vi
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L

Luv2Gro

Well-Known Member
agreed stoney... would love to elaborate but cannot stand to argue with bricks... i am a man who believes in: A WOMANS RIGHT TO CHOOSE... if you believe in god, then great...
DON'T PRAY IN MY SCHOOL AND I WON'T THINK IN YOUR CHURCH...

I LIKE YOUR CHRIST, I DO NOT LIKE YOUR CHRISTIANS, THEY ARE SO UNLIKE YOUR CHRIST.. -Ghandi
 
M

max420thc

Well-Known Member
An Oranje Canadian said:
Yep I did send that! This is a dank website, you wanna talk pot you have come to the right place, you wanna talk bullshit politricks go be a goddamn senator.
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why dont you communist ass ride out to another section of RIU so you wont be so offended..no you would rather stiffle someones free speach.
i joined the army to fucking kill communists.:twisted:
 
chicoles

chicoles

Well-Known Member
PadawanBater said:
Well what are your reasons, chicoles and ilkhan? I mean, why exactly is it wrong to get an abortion, even given some of the circumstances I presented? Poverty, born with HIV... do you think the MORE moral thing to do would be to have the kid anyway and just try to make it's life as comfortable as possible? What about in the rape or incest cases, still totally wrong?

The only people I seem to come across who are completely against abortions are the religious. Is there a non religious person out there against abortions? I'd love to hear that guys argument!

Are you guys also against stem cell research?

I agree if someone gets an abortion they should pay for it themselves.

...and one last thing, what would you suggest be done about this 'problem', make abortions illegal?
Click to expand...
My point was that it is disingenuous to justify abortion using the rape/incest arguement which is a statistically insignificant portion of the 40m estimated abortions. Just challenging the logic on a thread that deals with the quality of intellectual engagement in the political forum.
 
F

fdd2blk

Well-Known Member
max420thc said:
why dont you communist ass ride out to another section of RIU so you wont be so offended..no you would rather stiffle someones free speach.
i joined the army to fucking kill communists.:twisted:
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i love how you all feel "above the rules" simply because you are in the politics forum.

this is a privately owned site. there is no free speech here.

speaking of which, have any of you donated? it's only 5 dollars. you do have 5 dollars don't you? https://www.rollitup.org/support/announcements.html
 
TheBrutalTruth

TheBrutalTruth

Well-Known Member
Oranje Canadian is the reason why people can't talk about politics at work. It's because some one like him/her/it will over hear them talking about politics and get offended.

Never mind that it's an two party conversation and thus the person in Oranje Canadian's position of eavesdropping is violating the other two people's right to privacy.

Me, personally, I enjoy political arguments, there'd be no entertainment value in the politics section of this website if everyone here were mindless drones that had the same exact opinions.

As humans it can only be expected that we are not going to be like sheep and all be the same (or not have opinions which people like Oranje Canadian seems to be trying to push for.)

I have to agree with the opine that as no one forced him to read this section of the website, that there are two solutions

1. He can avoid the politics section or
2. He should be banned to make sure that he does so

with the end result being that he would not be offended by the viciousness of the arguments that take place in the politics section.

Though I'm confused by what he was expecting when he came into the politics section. Was he expecting flowers and kittens or something?
 
F

fdd2blk

Well-Known Member
i thought you all wanted free speech. complaining about the politics section is practicing free speech. you guys kill me.
 
medicineman

medicineman

New Member
max420thc said:
why dont you communist ass ride out to another section of RIU so you wont be so offended..no you would rather stiffle someones free speach.
i joined the army to fucking kill communists.:twisted:
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This proves my point, Max, you are an Idiot. Anyone that would join the service to kill is an idiot. Specifically pointing out the kind of people you want to kill is complete idiocy, You are so fucking ignorant, I can't see how you ever managed to get a job, much less all the bullshit you espouse on this site about how rich you are. I think I've figured you out, You're a 14 year old kid with a psychotic outlook. You'll probably end up on the 6-O-clock news one day soon, as a mass murderer
 
medicineman

medicineman

New Member
fdd2blk said:
max is rich? and we care why? =/
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I don't really care, it's just he likes to brag so much I have to doubt his validity, and BTW, if you pay attention to his posts, you can plainly see he is one crazy Mo-Fo., Quote: "I joined the army to kill (fucking) communists". Edit.
 
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