confused...clarifiacation anybody?

Or both?

I have some earthjuice primal harvest guano, 0-12-0 from what I see, then also have AN bloom that is 0-5-4..I'm also using molasses and a bit of FF grow, 6-4-4, for the first few weeks of flower.

Also have a bottle of MOAB that i will use week 5 or 6 and cut notes back a,bit when I do so..

My question is, is it a good idea to combine nutrients, as if a certain n-p-k ratio is desired; or to just stick with one or the other.

I assume mixing a chemical bloom of 0-5-4 with a 0-12-0 would be more beneficial since it would add more k to guano..or would using 0-5-4 only be more beneficial. From what I've gathered, there's more to nutrients than just n-p-k, such as the microbes activity within the soil (which guano and molasses are believed to help and promote)

Also, would using guano and molasses in a regular dirt soil be less effective than using them in a,soil such as FFOF?

I realize this belongs in both organic section and nutrient section so I am putting in both.

Thanks for any clarification..I have tried gathering as much research as I could but just like to double check with a nice informative conversation. Thanks again..

Id suggest using something with a Nitrogen value or your plants will burn up and yellow quicker than it will take to flower. Have you ever heard of Bloombastic?

fisch28 said:

Or both?

I have some earthjuice primal harvest guano, 0-12-0 from what I see, then also have AN bloom that is 0-5-4..I'm also using molasses and a bit of FF grow, 6-4-4, for the first few weeks of flower.

Also have a bottle of MOAB that i will use week 5 or 6 and cut notes back a,bit when I do so..

My question is, is it a good idea to combine nutrients, as if a certain n-p-k ratio is desired; or to just stick with one or the other.

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I'm no expert by any means and have never tried mixing chemical fertilizer with guano/molasses..
Before I give my two cents are you brewing tea or just mixing them all up and top dressing?

I read that it's not good to combine chemical ferts with organics because it messes with the bacteria you're trying to encourage to grow.

Of course you can combine fertilizers/nutrients. If you want to get mathematical about it you can and calculate the NPK value as a result x amount of fert a and y amount of fert b. It's more complicated than that and I won't explain it because you might already know how to do that. I haven't done any of this math yet I've just been slowly increasing the amounts of amendments I add to my tea based on how my plant responds. This seems to make the most sense because I'm planting directly in unaltered earth and I don't know the NPK of the ground I'm planting in.

I've stopped adding Nitrogen (except the little that Molasses and worm castings may contain after the bateria eat it in my tea) and My big fan leaves are yellowing and I still have at least a month to go until harvest. All the leaves surrounding the buds are green and look happy. I don't have a guaranteed organic source of N so I don't want to fuck with that right now.

That's my two cents, let me know what you think.

The FF Grow Big is not organic. I would advise against using any chemical\synthetic nutrients in conjunction with organic nutes in an organic grow. The only thing that makes it possibly not such a big deal is that the NPK for the Grow Big and AN Bloom isn't exorbitantly high - but both likely contain synthetic chelating agents (commonly EDTA), which is no good.

Guano should be micro-biologically active in it's own right, and it is also quite potent. Ideally you would use the high P guano in conjunction with something else that doesn't have much phosphorous at all and instead contains more significant amounts of potassium and perhaps a little nitrogen. Examples would be liquid seaweed or kelp meal (1-0-2), and blackstrap molasses (1-0-5). Earth Juice also has a product called Meta-K that is just bottled sulfate of potash, 0-0-10, so it doesn't take very much. Aside from that they sell their own Hi-Brix molasses for plants with an NPK of 0-0-3.

I would use the high P guano in conjunction with a lesser amount of high N guano, along with blackstrap and kelp for potash. Some other guanos contain a better balance of N such as Peruvian Seabird guano, which is about 10-10-2. Guano will also vary in terms of the amount of nitrogen it contains which is immediately available (soluble N), and that which is insoluble or released over the long term (course of a month). So if you have more than a month to go until harvest time it would be good to supply a bit of guano with a decent portion of insoluble N. Give only high P about a month before harvest. Don't provide any significant amount of any guano if you only have a couple weeks left to go, ideally none in the last few weeks because a single application will feed for up to a month and a half.

fisch28 said:

Also, would using guano and molasses in a regular dirt soil be less effective than using them in a,soil such as FFOF?

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Not exactly sure what you mean by this. If you're referring to dirt\soil as in outdoors in the ground I can't imagine it would be much less effective if at all, although application rates might need to be a little higher. What happens with phosphorous in particular is that it tends to be tightly bound up in organic complexes in nature. Plant roots can only take up P as a phosphate anion, and this soluble P tends to wash away from the rhizosphere. But as long as the soil is healthy, the microbes living within it are capable of breaking away phosphate groups from organic complexes, mineralizing them so that they become plant available and/or retaining them inside their cell walls and thus keeping them within the rhizosphere.

Otherwise, the bagged potting soil you purchase isn't really dirt or 'soil' at all. Ocean Forest is something of an exception to this (as I'll explain), but still a ways from being 'dirt'. The great majority of other potting soils you buy are actually just soil-less mixes; they'll be based upon limed sphagnum peat and\or coco coir with perlite, vermiculite and\or pumice added to improve aeration, drainage\moisture retention and general structure.

The higher quality organic potting soils will contain humus (stabilized decayed organic matter) in the form of forest humus, compost or earthworm castings. They may also be amended with a number of all natural or organic ingredients which are rich in plant nutrients (as Ocean Forest is). Humus is very important for several reasons, and outside in nature good dirt\soil will have a fair humus\organic matter content. Humus retains nutrients and moisture, contains very important organic (carbonaceous) compounds known as humates\humic substances, and harbors a wide variety of the micro-organisms that help keep plants happy.

Ocean Forest contains forest humus, castings and vermi-compost, which makes it very rich in humus and organic matter. But, what really sets OF apart from other bagged potting mixes is the fact that it actually contains loam- sandy loam to be exact. Trying not to get too deeply into it, but loam is dirt: essentially the ideal gardening soil. All soil in nature is comprised of some proportion of sand, silt and clay. A particle of sand is very large compared to a particle of clay, and silt particles are larger than clay particles but smaller than sand particles. Loam would be roughly 40% sand, 40% silt and 20% clay. Along with a good organic matter content this gives loam perfect texture, drainage and moisture retaining characteristics and so it is perfect for growing plants in. Sandy loam just has a slightly higher proportion of sand; it's incorporation into the mix, along with humus, is what makes Ocean Forest the closest thing to a true 'soil in a bag' that I am aware of.

Looks like I wrote much more than I planned on, hopefully some of that helps to answer your questions.

Thanks for the respond orchild! I am making an aerated tea with the guano, and have applied it as topsoil to few plants about a month ago. I will and have been feeding off my plants reactions, unfortunately I've been medicating a bit too much lately as I can't seem to remember exact amounts I use.

And wow, Nullis, thankyou for that post. It seems that you have done a decent amount of research with organic gardening, thanks for sharing.
I do have some questions tho, if you don't mind..
You said "Give only high P about a month before harvest. Don't provide any significant amount of any guano if you only have a couple weeks left to go, ideally none in the last few weeks because a single application will feed for up to a month and a half."
Is this a single application of tea? So I would only feed guano once a month or so? Or are you just referring to the last month and that if I were to feed a plant some tea then even after harvest it could still be in the plant?

Thanks again for the responses guys.

fisch28 said:

Thanks for the respond orchild! I am making an aerated tea with the guano, and have applied it as topsoil to few plants about a month ago. I will and have been feeding off my plants reactions, unfortunately I've been medicating a bit too much lately as I can't seem to remember exact amounts I use.

And wow, Nullis, thankyou for that post. It seems that you have done a decent amount of research with organic gardening, thanks for sharing.
I do have some questions tho, if you don't mind..
You said "Give only high P about a month before harvest. Don't provide any significant amount of any guano if you only have a couple weeks left to go, ideally none in the last few weeks because a single application will feed for up to a month and a half."
Is this a single application of tea? So I would only feed guano once a month or so? Or are you just referring to the last month and that if I were to feed a plant some tea then even after harvest it could still be in the plant?

Thanks again for the responses guys.

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Stick with what you know man.. Feed it you high P guano in tea form until 2 weeks before harvest at which point you'll flush with water. Are you outside? I feed my girls once every two weeks with guano, molasses, bacteria juice, and worm castings bubbled for 2-3 days. You know what I mean?

Why don't you post some pics bro? Would love to see what you have going right now.

fisch28 said:

Thanks for the respond orchild! I am making an aerated tea with the guano, and have applied it as topsoil to few plants about a month ago. I will and have been feeding off my plants reactions, unfortunately I've been medicating a bit too much lately as I can't seem to remember exact amounts I use.

And wow, Nullis, thankyou for that post. It seems that you have done a decent amount of research with organic gardening, thanks for sharing.
I do have some questions tho, if you don't mind..
You said "Give only high P about a month before harvest. Don't provide any significant amount of any guano if you only have a couple weeks left to go, ideally none in the last few weeks because a single application will feed for up to a month and a half."
Is this a single application of tea? So I would only feed guano once a month or so? Or are you just referring to the last month and that if I were to feed a plant some tea then even after harvest it could still be in the plant?

Thanks again for the responses guys.

Click to expand...

Guano in a tea I would agree that's fine until a couple weeks before harvest in reasonable amounts (guano has microbes).

As far as guano top-dress or fertigation goes the last application should be at least 4 weeks prior to harvest. You can still fertigate with low NPK organic nutrients if it is called for, and teas, but no more raw guano.