Don Gin and Ton
Well-Known Member
those lights are CFL n dont put out anywhere near the heat an mh would man. dont want to pee on your parade but cardboard and the temp of a mh thats been on for 18 hours is a bad combination.
Compact closet grow, is this too small?
- Thread starter letsdothis21
- Start date
RastaCourage
Well-Known Member
i was using a cardboard box, for germination
but, it should work out, if your set up, is similar to the other guy
good luck
but, it should work out, if your set up, is similar to the other guy
good luck
letsdothis21
Well-Known Member
I wish there was a big consensus about the cardboard thing, but since there isn't I'm going to go ahead and try it out, if it indeed gets to be a problem I will make a new box for it, and thanks for the concern/heads up Don.
Nebuchadnezzar
Well-Known Member
Is it heavy duty carboard?
Don Gin and Ton
Well-Known Member
hell man go for it. have you got a thermometer with a max n min like the digi ones just to see what sorta temps its going to hit? but to be honest as long as the bulb isnt touching the cardboard and theres a fair distance between them youll be fine!! Good Luck
what strains are you going with?
what strains are you going with?
GypsyBush
Well-Known Member
this may help... if you have heat issues...
GrowFAQ How do I build my own Cool Tube? said:Original Concept Credit: johnstone, NIMBY
Written by: Don'tTreadOnMe
Additional info by: sanclem
Compiled & edited by: Smokey D Dope
johnstone- Hurricane tube NIMBY - Baking tube
Configuration
This type of fixture is very versatile. There are many different ways it can be configured:
*hanging or mounted on a chamber wall
*open-ended drawing air from the grow or ducted to a separate intake
*passively or actively cooled
Tools Needed:
*Power drill with 1/8" or 3/16" drill bit
*4.25" hole saw
*pop rivet gun (optional)
*flat head and Phillips head screw drivers
Materials:
Keep in mind that the full list of materials you will need depends on the type of glass you get and the configuration you're looking to build. Here's the materials list with some pictures and approximate pricing:
· $3.99-- Glass, either 4" Pyrex tube (approx. 12" long, 4 diameter) or "hurricane" lamp glass ($3.99 at Hobby Lobby, is 11 3/4" long and 4 5/8")
· $2.99-- 4" H/C venting starter collar
· $4.50-- 5" to 4" venting pipe reducer (for use with hurricane glass only)
· $3.00-7.00-- High-temp foil tape
· $5.00-- Thermal pipe wrap (looks like woven fiberglass tape with no adhesive)
· $8.00-- 4" aluminum "dryer" ducting (hanging configuration)
· $2.00-- 1/2 wood screws (box wall mount only)
· $3.00-- pop rivets or small sheet metal screws
· 4" (dryer ducting and/or Pyrex tube only) and/or 5" (hurricane glass only) hose clamps
· "S" hooks (for hanging)
a. Hurricane glass tube
When working with the hurricane glass "chimney," the irregular shape needs to be overcome so that it can be attached it to a reducer collar that will make up one end of the fixture. You may attach a reducer collar to a single end if you want an open ended design, or you can attach one to each end if you will be running ducting to both intake and exhaust ports.
The graphics concentrate on the exhaust end to which the bulb socket is also anchored. On this end of the glass (at the narrow "throat") numerous wraps of thermal pipe wrapping are wound around the glass and secured with a couple of wrappings of foil duct tape. The wrapping should build up the throat to the same diameter as the opening in the glass - where it snugly fits inside the larger end of the reducer.
This will allow us to use a 5" hose clamp to secure the edge of the reducer collar to this tape wrapped "cushion." (Note: you can use foil tape alone for building this "cushion" but the thermal wrapping makes for a neater seal, and is less susceptible to heat. Also, if a hose clamp isn't available, the reducer can be secured to the glass with foil tape.
If you use a hose clamp, you will need to make some 1" slits in the edge of the reducer collar the glass fits in to allow the hose clamp to compress it enough to hold the glass securely)
Mounting the socket inside the tube
In the graphic, a length of pipe strapping bent in a "U" shape is used to hold the socket far enough inside the glass to place the bulb roughly in the middle of the glass. This glass, $3.99 at Hobby Lobby, is 11 3/4" long and 4 5/8" at each end. Notice this glass is symmetrical. Don't try to use the asymmetrical hurricane lamp "chimney's" available at Lowe's or HD; they're too small and aren't shaped in a way that permits good air flow.
The socket is either screwed or pop riveted to the bottom of the pipe strap "U." My light was made from a 150w HPS security light which used a "medium" base socket; this socket has two little screws in it that more or less lined up with the holes in the strapping.
As for the mogul base sockets used with bigger lamps, I don't know what they have on the bottom of them so you may have to improvise a solution for mounting them. The ends of the strap are bent around to "clip" over the edge of the glass and then secured with a couple of wrappings of foil tape. If you'd like, a more permanent mount can be had by drilling a couple of small holes in the tapered throat of the reducer and attaching the ends of the strap with a couple of pop rivets.
Running the wires
The wires from the socket can be either run through your 4" ducting which will attach to the other end of the reducer or you can drill a hole in the tapered part of the reducer to run the wire out of the fixture to the ballast.
Here's how I actually have it done in my box. There's no venting, it just mounts to a 4.25" hole in the side of my flowering chamber via a starter collar which fits snugly inside the 4" side of the reducer collar. I've got them held together with four pop rivets for a permanent connection. The tabbed end of the starter collar fits into the hole where the tabs are bent around the edge of the hole and anchored with wood screw to the box wall. (In my box, on the other side of this wall is my utility room with a 4" 115cfm computer case fan sucking out the back of it.)
One could just as easily connect another reducer collar onto the other end of the glass exactly as the first side was with "S" hooks for hanging from above. This fixture could then have both intake and exhaust from outside the box.
Originally this is what I would have preferred to have, but as my flowering chamber is only 2'Dx2'Wx3'H, the wall mount actually did better for me.
johnstone- Hurricane tube NIMBY - Baking tube
b. Pyrex baking tube
(NIMBY) "Using a Pyrex (borosilicate glass) tube obtained from a glass blowing supply house or using a "Bake a Round" (eBay had a dozen for sale the last time I checked) one utilizes either one or two (pictured) 4" starter collars instead of the 5" to 4" reducer collars. They are 14" long and 3.75" in diameter."
"I stretched the aluminum ducting out and measured 16". I then snipped the metal "ribs" and cut the ducting open. The glass tube will now just drop into the long run of ducting. The electrial wires run to the remote ballast through the intake part of the duct (exhaust could also be used depending upon the location of the ballast). I measured 2" from each side of my original cut and snipped the metal ribs again but this time didn't cut the aluminum foil. This allows me to open the ducting up like a "wing"."
A couple of wraps of pipe wrap sealed with foil tape on each end you want to put a collar on should be used to keep from biting the metal directly into glass with the hose clamp (pictured). The socket is mounted inside the tube with pipe strapping just as in the hurricane style fixture. It can either be "clipped" and taped over the edge of the glass or better, pop riveted to the inside of the starter collar.
Simply stick the glass inside the end of the starter collar an inch or so past the bottom of the tabs to measure how far in to drill two holes 180 degrees apart, then use two pop rivets to attach the strapping
A note about pipe strapping: don't get the thin wimpy stuff. Get the thicker heavy-duty strapping. The heavy stuff is still relatively easy to bend but holds it's shape better and will hold the bulb and socket straight without sagging. At Home Depot they even have some copper pipe strapping (also known as pipe tape" or pipe hanger) that is quite stiff.
Ventilation Performance
There are many different ventilation options available, since standard household ducting is used in the construction of the fixture. For those folks with bigger boxes or rooms, ducting in and out, "inline" duct fans are probably the best option.
For my little NewGanjaBoy-style setup, using the Hurricane fixture as part of the ventilation system of my box, a 115cfm computer fan does the trick. As for actual performance specs for different blowers/fans and light wattages, I'm afraid you'll have to experiment. Here's mine just to give an example:
Box:
-NewGanjaBoy-style three chambered box
-4 20w flouros in the mother chamber
-150w security HPS in the flowering chamber in original metal fixture with holes drilled in the top
Ventilation before Cool Tube installed:
-115cfm fan exhausting box
-4"x8" intake port in the bottom of the veg chamber
-Two 2' runs of 1.5" PVC pulling air through the wall between veg and flowering chambers
-Two 1' runs of 1.5" PVC pulling air from over the HPS fixture into the utility room where it's exhausting out the back.
Ventilation after Cool Tube installed:
-Two PVC runs between flowering chamber and utility room replaced with Hurricane Cool tube fixture
-ballast moved to utility room and housed in the original security light casing
-everything else is the same
Temps before Cool Tube mod:
Ambient temp: 80°F
Flowering chamber 1 hour after HPS fires up: 95°F (in direct light)
Flowering chamber 6-12 hours after HPS fires up: 100-105+°F (ouch!!)
Temps after Cool Tube Mod:
Ambient temp: 80°F
Flowering chamber 1 hour after HPS fires up: 85°F (in direct light)
Flowering chamber 6-12 hours after HPS fires up: 90°F (in direct light)
SAFETY NOTICE:
Please note that the wire to the bulb base must be a high temp fiberglass type, or the heat will eat up the wire and cause a running short. The thermal tape is a fiberglass electrical tape from most hardware stores. High temp fiberglass wrapped wire is available at any hardware or electrical store. It is imperative that you use it, as a smoking ballast is a real bummer to relight.
letsdothis21
Well-Known Member
Most of it is heavy duty cardboard, the bottom part is double cardboard (2 sheets), so hopefully it's not too bad.
I'll be setting up the light on Sunday so I will let you know how it goes, and no I do not have a digi monitor for the temp but will let you know what it gets too.
Thanks for all the comments and the one about the cool tube but don't know if I will actually construct one.
I'll be setting up the light on Sunday so I will let you know how it goes, and no I do not have a digi monitor for the temp but will let you know what it gets too.
Thanks for all the comments and the one about the cool tube but don't know if I will actually construct one.
jesus420
Well-Known Member
not all cardboard is created equal.
but seriously dude that 150w hps does put out some heat. very concentrated heat, the kind of heat that likes to burn cardboard which in turn burns your house down.
don't start a fire, it's just not good press, plus it's a sure fire way to get busted.
why are you using cardboard???? there are a MILLION other thigns you could use.
i'm using that same HPS light in a space that's about 12 cu. ft and with decent ventilation (guestimeate about 150cfm) temps are still a little high, they settle at around 86 but if my roommate turns the thermostat up it can easily get in the low 90's.
and cardboard is gonna be sensitive to humidity, it will warp, and what happens when your plants drip on the floor of your grow room after watering? then that cardboard breaks down, starts to mold, etc. just get something else!
but seriously dude that 150w hps does put out some heat. very concentrated heat, the kind of heat that likes to burn cardboard which in turn burns your house down.
don't start a fire, it's just not good press, plus it's a sure fire way to get busted.
why are you using cardboard???? there are a MILLION other thigns you could use.
i'm using that same HPS light in a space that's about 12 cu. ft and with decent ventilation (guestimeate about 150cfm) temps are still a little high, they settle at around 86 but if my roommate turns the thermostat up it can easily get in the low 90's.
and cardboard is gonna be sensitive to humidity, it will warp, and what happens when your plants drip on the floor of your grow room after watering? then that cardboard breaks down, starts to mold, etc. just get something else!
letsdothis21
Well-Known Member
Yes, I can see how the cardboard could pose some problems, however I don't have a saw so don't know how I could construct a box out of plywood, or can they cut me the 6 sides I need at the place?
Also, for the water leakage problem I am planning on having a tray or something similar to catch excess water.
Also, for the water leakage problem I am planning on having a tray or something similar to catch excess water.
GypsyBush
Well-Known Member
letsdothis21
Well-Known Member
thanks for the suggestion gypsy, and that made me think about other materials that would be easier to construct than plywood...
So would a PVC pipe frame work, and then what would I use to enclose the box? or what else would you guys suggest (is plywood still good?)?
Thanks for any and all comments!
So would a PVC pipe frame work, and then what would I use to enclose the box? or what else would you guys suggest (is plywood still good?)?
Thanks for any and all comments!
GypsyBush
Well-Known Member
Sure thing man... anytime...
you could use pvc, but you will need tools for that...
you can also use plywood, but again, you will need tools...
Can you operate a roll of duct tape?
Do you have access to a cutting device? like a knife or scissors?
Can you stick a round peg in a round hole?
I have the perfect solution for you...lol...
I'll just quote from my thread, here is the tent build....
Check this...
Hi...! yes... I'very Hi...!
A while back (10 days or so) I ordered a new light... a 600 Watt HPS w/ a 8" cool tube... ... so I could have one light over the four trays I intend on having..
I wanted to order a Grow Tent as well, but the cash was a little short that day... not wanting to wait this long again for shipping, I decided to go get some supplies and build my own... (with the help of a good friend... Thanks!!!)
Soooo, I just thought I'd post about how I spent part of my day yesterday...
Went to WM... picked up a "wardrobe"... air pumps & stones... Industrial Strength Velcro... and 4 plastic containers...
Then I went to "L" and got a few more things... 4"in-line duct fan (exhaust) @ 80CFM... some 4" ducting... a 4" ducting wall adapter... and some heavy duty tape...
Then I went to a gardening supply store and picked up some 6 MIL black/white Panda Film, but I had to buy a freaking roll of it... 1000 sq Foot roll... yeah.... ok... and I found these neat little zippers... probably $1 from China, but I paid PREMIUM, let me assure you hehehe, what a rip off... I needed them so I got them... and they were very easy to use... if only they were a better zipper... I hate cheap, flimsy shit that you know won't last... especially when you have to pay a lot for it...
Oh my other beef with the zipper is that you NEED 2 to make a door... all of the pictures showed what I needed... but you can't make an effective door with just one... everything I said before... just doubled the price... rip off....
So I guess a few pictures of the assembly are in order...
This is not a tutorial... I am not a teacher and I don't have patience to explain anything to anyone unless the person is willing to pay genuine attention because they are really interested...
With that said, I would be glad to answer questions here on this thread (please do not PM me ABOUT THIS)... just make sure you are asking a relevant, specific question... Thanks...!
So Yeah, it is pretty easy, if you have the patience to deal with a very large piece of plastic that needs to be folded neatly several time...
I still need a piece of thin plywood for the bottom, the cardboard looked good for the pictures, but it's not permanent...
I put little velcro tabs, attaching the frame to the panda film...
I had to make an extra section to cover the back of the zipper, as it is not light proof, and to make sure, I ran a strip of velcro lenghtwise, to make sure light cannot go in because of the zipper...
I'll take a better picture of the thermostat, but it is just a regular cooling thermostat... you set the temp and it lets power go to whatever it is you are running...
Kinda like a timer..... but instead of turning on and off with hours and minutes, it is controlled by temperature...
So I can have the fan kick at ... say... 75F...and when it gets below 75F (+- a few) it shuts off....
Passive intakes should do it... but it would be easy to add at any point...
I know I will not get true 80CFM out of this fan, but I have a small tent...
true 80CFM would circulate the entire airmass 3.3 times every minute...
I bet I am still getting full volume transfer every minute... I got 24 cubic feet of space...
Well, it's time for me to go and enjoy some torture at physical therapy...
Be good boys and girls... and remember "Always Drive Rowdy...." lol...
Gypsy....
When the light gets here, it will have 8" holes on the sides of the tent for unrestricted blow by ventilation... provided by a 265cfm cage fan (not an in-line blower...
Damn... and I still got the joint...
Ok... so I will start pretty much where I left off... with one overlapped picture to illustrate a change....
I decided to change the exhaust flange because I found one that will block the light a little better than the previous... and I think it looks slightly better...
...and a little fan to ... "..stir it up, little darling stur it up..."lol
Oh! I was wrong about the fan all along... it is a 170 CFM in line blower...
I have always been scared of cheap plastic timers on anything more than household lamp... so... here we have a real timer... that probably won't catch fire, melt or be overloaded...
Of course we gotta know what we are feeding our plants, so here we have a HANNA Pronto TDS/PPM meter.... everything to keep my ladies happy...
The thermostat will kick the exhaust fan ON when the temperature inside raises to what the user sets it to...
This power strip will be used for non-ballast/non-timed/non-heat generating items such as the circulating fan and 9 watt CFL (just in case I need a light and don't need to fire up the BIG GUNS...)
Everything else will be staged outside... airpumps, ballasts, transformers... etc...
And here is the whole strip with the goodies....
... and last but not least....
I really wanted to use some of the "neoprene" medialess "disks"... but there were none to be had in this town...
So, again, I found something that works at a fraction of the cost....
I wanted to get away from absorbent foam once the seedlings grow a bit, to avoid stem rot...
So this closed cell foam is perfect, even if I have to tape or glue it once the thin seam busts...
It's perfect for what I am doing...
Well boys & girls.. it's been fun so far... but I am not finished.... soooo... I will get busy again and check with you guys a little later...
Take care...
Gypsy...
... anyone...
BlazeAwayTheDays
Active Member
My grow is in a similarly small space. I have an intake, exhaust, only one plant, and im using CFLs. The temperature when closed up STILL shoots to 90 within a couple of hours.
If i had a 150w HPS in there, my plant would be severely stunted and burnt from the environmental distress. I agree with everyone that cardboard is a fucking deathtrap. seriously dont fucking do it. You cant be around your box 24/7 to ensure nothing happens so just dont risk a fire like that.
as for plywood, I just went to Home Depot with measurements and they cut it there for me. All i needed was a screwdriver and a box of self tapping screws and did it by hand. So you have a lot of possibilities, a tent would rock too, but please God dont use cardboard.
If you hadn't bought the light already i would suggest getting a large 125-200w CFL They can veg and flower a single plant no problem and stay a whole lot cooler than HPS. Good luck though!
If i had a 150w HPS in there, my plant would be severely stunted and burnt from the environmental distress. I agree with everyone that cardboard is a fucking deathtrap. seriously dont fucking do it. You cant be around your box 24/7 to ensure nothing happens so just dont risk a fire like that.
as for plywood, I just went to Home Depot with measurements and they cut it there for me. All i needed was a screwdriver and a box of self tapping screws and did it by hand. So you have a lot of possibilities, a tent would rock too, but please God dont use cardboard.
If you hadn't bought the light already i would suggest getting a large 125-200w CFL They can veg and flower a single plant no problem and stay a whole lot cooler than HPS. Good luck though!
GypsyBush
Well-Known Member
Not with a cool tube...
How do you suppose I get away with a 600 watt HPS 10" from my young plants?
No heat, no stress... just a balmy 75F, with almost 2x the lumens of the sun...
my 2 cents...
EDIT: I meant to say...with almost 2x the lumens per square foot of a sunny day...
BlazeAwayTheDays
Active Member
@gypsy: Well that is definitely true. I assumed that since he is attempting to use cardboard for an enclosure, that his resources are fairly limited, not to mention space and possibly stealth issues. I feel like fitting the fan and ducting in such a small space would be a miracle if it really is as tight as he says it is.
Is there extra space in the closet around or above or near the box to set up ducting?
perhaps pictures of the setup and space would be a helpful, i may have misunderstood your space situation.
letsdothis21
Well-Known Member
There is plenty of space above the enclosure for air ducts and such, and yes I will not be using cardboard anymore.
The thing about your setup gypsy is that the wardrobe closet does not seem like it would be able to be constructed to fit my space...and I guess I can try and ask the people at Home Depot if they can cut all 6 pieces for me but it seems like it'd be a lot of work for them
. If all else fails I can just buy a saw but don't really want to, people would just be like wtf why you have a saw? hah.
And if temps go up high in my space after the setup is complete I will look into the cool tube setup.
Thanks again for the input guys!
The thing about your setup gypsy is that the wardrobe closet does not seem like it would be able to be constructed to fit my space...and I guess I can try and ask the people at Home Depot if they can cut all 6 pieces for me but it seems like it'd be a lot of work for them
. If all else fails I can just buy a saw but don't really want to, people would just be like wtf why you have a saw? hah.And if temps go up high in my space after the setup is complete I will look into the cool tube setup.
Thanks again for the input guys!
letsdothis21
Well-Known Member
hah no man its not the purchasing of a saw that I'm worried about. It's just that my roomates and whoever else know that I would have no need for a saw at all and I'm kind of trying to keep this stealth, haha
Nebuchadnezzar
Well-Known Member
Your local hardware store will be more than willing to cut the lumber to your specifications my friend. Does'nt have to be ply-wood, something thinner would do nicely I think. Just look around, and pick something sturdy and tight.
Good luck.
Good luck.