Cloning a Triploid ?

Dizzle Frost

Well-Known Member
I read an article by DJ Short once that said pretty much all mutants he has grown were either sterile or damn near impossible to clone, pretty odd.
it holds truth....none of my trip Blueberries ever cloned and usually hermed out on me.... i did grow one to maturity tho and it was fine and funky as hell lookin

but most are sterile for breeding...its mother natures way of selection
 

cannatricks

Well-Known Member
99% of the time your triploid will go to regular flowering/one leaf per node. I've tried to induce flowering earlier during the Triploid stage, but they have all changed back to regular spacing within 5-10 nodes. I don't flower plants until they are on a one leaf per node basis now, my yields were reduced on the triploid plants, I think because it was spending so much energy trying to create so many buds, I didn't get much weight.

Rarely you may find a polyploid (could be anywhere from 3-20 leaves per node) and if you do you can get some crazy looking nugs, but from what I have read it doesn't increase the yield. More leaves does not equal more bud.
 

Guile

Active Member
good idea or bad idea ?
Defiantly clone it, multiple times. Nurse the hell out for the first couple: temp control, foliar feed (with dilute nutrients/hormones) everything in your power to get it to root. Once you have proven it can be done, then try more conventional methods.

Every time you challenge the "conventional wisdom" and win you are broadening/advancing "conventional wisdom"
 

Guile

Active Member
it holds truth....none of my trip Blueberries ever cloned and usually hermed out on me.... i did grow one to maturity tho and it was fine and funky as hell lookin

but most are sterile for breeding...its mother natures way of selection
Thats cool... have you ever reveged/flowered one to see if that stresses them into hermi too? Or played around with light cycles/nutrients to see if they are more sensitive that way?
I'm just curious if these plants are particularly susceptible to stress..
 

Guile

Active Member
if i could get a bag of fem seeds that i knew were sterile shit id be in heaven that is what we should all be after
Seedless fruit are the product of hormonal manipulation.. This same manipulation should be translatable to other plants with relitivey similar results. I have not yet experimented with this so I can't offer any personal truths or insights. However if you are really interested in sterile female plants you might want to look into it..
 

Blunt Master Flex

Active Member
Thats cool... have you ever reveged/flowered one to see if that stresses them into hermi too? Or played around with light cycles/nutrients to see if they are more sensitive that way?
I'm just curious if these plants are particularly susceptible to stress..
It's actually pretty hard to get his genetics to herm out.
 

FarmerJJ

Member
I beg to differ, I believe what he is saying is that the plants that you are refering to as being "extremely deformed/mutated" are not deformities at all but true mutations. And that the mere deformities will never cause any problems with breeding or cloning. He even says in the article "It is important to know the difference between a deformity and a mutation" so I don't understand how you can put them in the same category IE your "extremely deformed/mutated" comment. This would also mean that you can in fact tell the difference between deformed plants and mutant plants.
With that being said I don't know if a triploid would fall under being deformed or being a mutant.
Deformities are caused by genetic mutations.
 

Blunt Master Flex

Active Member
Whats your regular cloning method? (What hormones, growing media and light cycle do you use?) How long do you veg before you flower? What growing method do you use?
Normally I use Rapid Rooter/Root Riots with rootech , but sometimes I use bubble cloners (with just H2o). Generally I do coco in smart pots, but I do aero and RDWC evrey once in awhile too. Veg times vary and I flower with 12/12.
 

Blunt Master Flex

Active Member
There are many different reasons for deformities, Genetic Mutation is one of the causes. I think it was like one of thirteen different causes for deformities. So, yes deformities ARE caused by mutations, but that doesn't mean that it's ALWAYS the cause.
If the ground gets wet when I dump water on it, then that is the cause for the ground being wet. But that does not mean the only way the ground can get wet is if I dump water on it, there are many different ways it could happen.
 

Guile

Active Member
Normally I use Rapid Rooter/Root Riots with rootech , but sometimes I use bubble cloners (with just H2o). Generally I do coco in smart pots, but I do aero and RDWC evrey once in awhile too. Veg times vary and I flower with 12/12.
Do you experience an equal occurrence of hermaphrodites in these blueberry clones regardless what methods you use?
 

Blunt Master Flex

Active Member
I have Grape Krush, not Blueberry, Blueberry is in the lineage though.
I've never had one herm out on me under any circumstance, so I guess that's a yes.
 

Guile

Active Member
I have Grape Krush, not Blueberry, Blueberry is in the lineage though.
I've never had one herm out on me under any circumstance, so I guess that's a yes.
Perhaps I misunderstand I'm under the impression we are having a conversation stemmed from

it holds truth....none of my trip Blueberries ever cloned and usually hermed out on me.... i did grow one to maturity tho and it was fine and funky as hell lookin

but most are sterile for breeding...its mother natures way of selection
where you came in with

It's actually pretty hard to get his genetics to herm out.
I assumed you then had similar experiences to Dizzle Frost where none of their trip Blueberries ever cloned and usually hermed out.

I apologize for my misunderstanding if that's the case... thanks for hanging in there for me (It must have seemed like an odd line of questioning for ya)... I also hope Dizzle Frost doesn't think I'm insinuating anything about their genetics. (just gaining a better understanding of things)
 

cannatricks

Well-Known Member
I have blueberry off of an original strain mother (10 years of motherhood). The clone rate is lower (maybe 40%, when everything else I do is like 95%) and there is a deformity on the leaves. A weird bumpy crinkle on the leaves. Sometimes it makes them twist up like crazy and the leaves grow strangely, but the plant itself buds like crazy. I think the problem is not so much the blueberry, but how far down the road you got it. If you have a clone of a clone, of a clone, etc etc. your rates will go down drasitcally. I've also had others strain go hermaphroditic after the blueberry was in flower and although I've found seeds in the other strains, I've never found one in the blueberry. I'm guessing that my girl is sterile, but as for cloning, I get a low rate, but nothing that can't be worked through.

Luckly I Just barely got these pics off before lights out, I actually took the last one and lights went out while I was in there :) This girl is at about day 40 of flower. You can see the deformity in the leaves (really prevalent on new leaves) This is a prime example of a deformity rather then a mutation.
SANY0382.jpgSANY0381.jpgSANY0383.jpg
 

grapeoptimo

Well-Known Member
If your referring to the 3 blade leaf pattern abnormality, then Id say it wont necessarily matter. My GodBud is a 3 blade plant, but the clone i took from it is growing normal 5 blade leafs. Im not sure what even causes it in the first place, but it didnt carry over. this is just my experience so far. as it is the first i have had.
Same thing happened, bought a clone entitled (blackwater kush, who knows collectives are retards) it only grew 3 finger leaves, flowered it at 24 inches, got some dank, only about a half zip tho. Cloned it, its clone is 2 feet tall, it has 5 finger leaves and 7 finger leaves.

In the article I read it said that most mutants he came across were some of the most potent plants he'd ever worked with. Not the plants with deformities, but true mutants.
I just agree with this.
 

jewgrow

Well-Known Member
There are many different reasons for deformities, Genetic Mutation is one of the causes. I think it was like one of thirteen different causes for deformities. So, yes deformities ARE caused by mutations, but that doesn't mean that it's ALWAYS the cause.
If the ground gets wet when I dump water on it, then that is the cause for the ground being wet. But that does not mean the only way the ground can get wet is if I dump water on it, there are many different ways it could happen.
I'm sorry, but you seem to be twisting science around. Cannabis is a plant, it follows the same rules as all the other plants. I suppose a deformity could be caused by stress factors, but is this really a deformity or a reaction to stress. For example over-watering, under-watering, uneven watering, insects, pathogens, could cause simple deformities in the shape of the leaves. Is this what you are talking about? What is most likely happening with the more potent mutants is crossing over. This is a certain type of chromosomal mutation, where the chromosomes cross over. This is how a mutation can cause the same effect more than once, and why some people might see the same mutation DJ short has. Maybe this is the "difference" between your deformity and his mutation. With a double cross over it is possible to achieve the higher potency, but with a 'deformity' in the shape of the leaves.

And to cannatricks, clones of clones should have a HIGHER cloning percentage. Think about plant selection. The cuttings that do not root are tossed out, but the cuttings with faster, better rooting are selected because those are the ones you use.
 

silent1966

Member
i have a vid on youtube puffnstuff101 vid number 0766 the first plant on the right is a a sativa,clone and single leafe all the way till done check it out got any questions let me know
 

Blunt Master Flex

Active Member
It's cool Bud, I actually wasn't replying to dizzles comment, but this comment of yours.
Thats cool... have you ever reveged/flowered one to see if that stresses them into hermi too? Or played around with light cycles/nutrients to see if they are more sensitive that way?
I'm just curious if these plants are particularly susceptible to stress..
 

Blunt Master Flex

Active Member
I'm sorry, but you seem to be twisting science around. Cannabis is a plant, it follows the same rules as all the other plants. I suppose a deformity could be caused by stress factors, but is this really a deformity or a reaction to stress. For example over-watering, under-watering, uneven watering, insects, pathogens, could cause simple deformities in the shape of the leaves. Is this what you are talking about? What is most likely happening with the more potent mutants is crossing over. This is a certain type of chromosomal mutation, where the chromosomes cross over. This is how a mutation can cause the same effect more than once, and why some people might see the same mutation DJ short has. Maybe this is the "difference" between your deformity and his mutation. With a double cross over it is possible to achieve the higher potency, but with a 'deformity' in the shape of the leaves.

And to cannatricks, clones of clones should have a HIGHER cloning percentage. Think about plant selection. The cuttings that do not root are tossed out, but the cuttings with faster, better rooting are selected because those are the ones you use.
How am I of all people in this thread twisting science around?
I am in fact THE ONLY ONE who has posted a link along with their comment to explain better and to let people know I'm not talking out of my ass. I was just researching the cause of mutation the other day and I'm pretty sure the people who made the website know a little bit more about the subject than you bud. Not trying to be rude but damn dude, why don't you find some links of people who have done research on the subject and prove me wrong instead of trying to stir shit up?
I suppose I could go find a link to all causes of mutation, but I'm guessing it'd be pointless because you already know everything there is to know about mutations.
 
Top