Chemical nutrients and organic soils

I’m trying to fine tune my knowledge of organics, and I’m interested where you draw the line between organic and chemical?

To be more specific with my question:

1. Can you use a base soil that includes a mix of coir, peat, perlite and compost, and still fertilize with chemical fertilizers effectively?

2. Would you lose the benefits of the microbes, and consequentially the organic slow release nutes?

3. Is there a cut off point, could you use a soil that provides 50% organics and supplement with a 50% strength General Hydro Flora series?

I am an organic gardener for my tomatoes, but like the dynamic nature of chemical nutes. Any helps is very much appreciated!

I draw the line at salts, mostly.
There's a lot of "organic" derived powders and solutions of those powders that are cheating, in my book.
I'm not all holier than thou about it, but if you ask me that shit don't count.
I still use Epsom salts, and I'm not above a touch up of just about anything if my soil isn't cutting it. You take what you will from my own hypocrisy, but I got a mouth to feed.

JayBio420 said:

I’m trying to fine tune my knowledge of organics, and I’m interested where you draw the line between organic and chemical?

To be more specific with my question:

1. Can you use a base soil that includes a mix of coir, peat, perlite and compost, and still fertilize with chemical fertilizers effectively?

2. Would you lose the benefits of the microbes, and consequentially the organic slow release nutes?

3. Is there a cut off point, could you use a soil that provides 50% organics and supplement with a 50% strength General Hydro Flora series?

I am an organic gardener for my tomatoes, but like the dynamic nature of chemical nutes. Any helps is very much appreciated!

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There's some salt based fertilisers such as Muriate of potash and to a lesser extent Super Phosphate that you'd be mad to use but there's some like Urea that if used as a foliar spray or if applied with a carbon source are very effective sources of readily plant available nutrients and reasonably harmless to soil life if not over used. Ron Wallace from https://www.wallacewow.com who has held world records for growing giant pumpkins uses a hybrid system and gets great results and Greame Sait a world renowned Agronomist and founder of Nutrients Tech Solutions https//www.nutri-tech.com.au has based his Nutrition Farming system on a hybrid conventional/organic based approach which I personally use on 3 farms and have seen great results not only in production but in increased soil fertility and reduction in weed and insect pressures and fertiliser and associated costs.

Personally I think for one organic food tastes better, any other arguments aside go grab an organic tomato and one that is grown in chemicals and you will know you are not eating the same thing (oh yeah you said you grow organic tomatoes so you know what I'm saying there.) I think that the same will be for the buds sure they may not be huge swollen monsters but i think the quality is much better. I used to be a fox farm fan boy I had it ALL (still do actually) all the "organic" based nutes and I have since just gone to all organic soil building and growing in SIP's. It really is the way to go IMO. The hard part is mixing dirt that's it really. No moving parts or pumps to fail. No nutes to measure and mix every day. Just maybe go mist the ladies check the water levels in the lower containers and make sure your top soil is covered and moist and the plants do the rest! I do use cal-mag supplements once in a while in the water rez so I guess that is the ONE thing right now that is not organic, but I am trying to correct that in my soil as I reamend it over time. Just my two cents

meangreengrowinmachine said:

have since just gone to all organic soil building and growing in SIP's

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I'm trying to get this going myself.
SIPs seem a perfect system for full organic ROLS style.

Miyagismokes said:

I'm trying to get this going myself.
SIPs seem a perfect system for full organic ROLS style.

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they are GREAT! there is a SIP thread on here with a ton of great ideas and builds too. I have been running them for a few years now and never going back to anything else. They are just so ez compared to other styles I have done and so fool proof!

LivingSoils said:

Hey, you could try our complete organic fertiliser range - these are bespoke products where we mix by hand using natural ingredients - available via mail in plastic free packaging - see our website here: Living Soils. thanks for reading!

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Many nutrients that are marketed as organic include some chemical nutrient salts as well. How about yours? Been thinking about going organic.
JD

LivingSoils said:

hey thanks for coming back to me - 100% no chemicals guaranteed

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That's very cool. Hey what does the bokashi bran do?
JD

JayBio420 said:

1. Can you use a base soil that includes a mix of coir, peat, perlite and compost, and still fertilize with chemical fertilizers effectively?

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I'd say yes...but very gently.

JayBio420 said:

2. Would you lose the benefits of the microbes, and consequentially the organic slow release nutes?

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I have heard guys say that nutrient salts don't kill microbes. And of course...you can also supplement bennies to ensure you don't kill them all off.

JayBio420 said:

3. Is there a cut off point, could you use a soil that provides 50% organics and supplement with a 50% strength General Hydro Flora series?

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Not sure on that...but I've been thinking about this myself. I'm going to do as much organic as possible and the use the chamicals as backup in case of problems.

Cheers,
JD

I agree with above.
As long as there's a continuous source of organic carbon, being replenished for the soil's fertility, nutrient salts should be just fine as a supplement.

It is a fairly fine line though imho. Easy to tip the balance with nutrient salts.

Without replacement organic matter, the soil's fertility will fall.
Using an extreme scenario as an example, soil will slowly become salty, have less water holding capacity and life will decrease significantly.
There comes a point, where it may as well be DTW hydro.

JayBio420 said:

I’m trying to fine tune my knowledge of organics, and I’m interested where you draw the line between organic and chemical?

To be more specific with my question:

1. Can you use a base soil that includes a mix of coir, peat, perlite and compost, and still fertilize with chemical fertilizers effectively?

2. Would you lose the benefits of the microbes, and consequentially the organic slow release nutes?

3. Is there a cut off point, could you use a soil that provides 50% organics and supplement with a 50% strength General Hydro Flora series?

I am an organic gardener for my tomatoes, but like the dynamic nature of chemical nutes. Any helps is very much appreciated!

Click to expand...

1. The short answer is yes but that sort of defeats the purpose of growing in organic soil. There are other options far better than Chem nutes for use in a living soil: Like liquid fish and/or compost teas.

2. Synthetic chelated salts can dry out the bodies of the microbes that drive the activity of decomposition in your soil which in turn feeds the plants and to some degree regulates ph. They are essential to your grow and provided by forms of compost like worm castings. Fertilizer is unaffected by chem nutes but without microbial activity and symbiotic fungal assisted absorption you may as well grow in a sterile hydro medium.

3. See answer one....

Bottled nutes are not the devil. You can easily reverse any damage done just by adding back more compost and other raw organic materials to the soil mix. All soil mixes fall off gradually over time; fresh material must be added back regularly. What seems like a deficiency could be just inactivity. A handful of good ewc can recover a sickly looking plants in days.

Salts are chemicals

Nm carry on..i can't tonight

Thanks everyone’s for the input this far. It was a bit of a theoretical question back in 2018, I’ve since been doing recycled living organic soil. It’s been quite a process learning about how soil works and the food webs in it. I picked up “Teeming with Microbes” and read the majority of that last year. I find the topic fascinating.