Cando I need to pick your brain

LOL sorry cando this was the only way I could think of getting your attention publicly. I am hoping my question will help other so that is why i went this route.

I know your mushroom knowledge is large and extensive so maybe you will know.

What enzymes are secreated by hyphae? I am really curious if that enzyme was applied to the sub surface immeadtly after the myc fully colinized the sub would it accelerate the production of hyphea and result in a faster pinning time or alloow for more pinning clusters. I have spent a week trying to find this info out and I have struck out.

More than one, I don't know what they are though. Look this stuff grows so fast in optimum settings that you don't need to accelerate the organism by other means. Keep your substrate rich, your co2 high and your temperatures just touching 86 and you will be very very happy with the speed of your mycelial growth. So far as pinning, it is a matter of amassing enough energy from it's substrate and then being exposed to triggers. There are three, in my opinion you should use them all. If you want more clusters, then follow a good pinning protocol and you will see results that dazzle - believe me.

Now there have been experiments using ground up primordia and spraying that on certain species of mushroom to great sucess in getting a good concerted flush - it does not work with p. Cubensis. That would indicate to me that their is little or no chemical effect.

Yes sir on the temps, I was keeping my sub at 82 degrees while it is colinizing and kept contaming out so I had to drop it to 75 degrees. I found an article about using C02 during the sub colinize phase and during agar plate work. Acording to that article a C02 rich atmoshphere between 20 and 25 % is optimum. I tried putting aluminum foil with 4 dime size holes in it on top of my sub and contam out, I tried putting my sub material into a black trash bag then putting it into a tub with a twist tie on the bag and contam out. Next time I roll I will use C02 since I have all the equip for my ladies. When I dropped my temp I stopped contaming so I know its this 85 year old house and hopefully with C02 I can shave a day or 2 off of my time.

http://pubman.mpdl.mpg.de/pubman/item/escidoc:39635:6/component/escidoc:52583/sengbusch_643_PDFA.pdf

The reason I was wanting to know the enzyme is to try and push the time ahead, right now I m on a 18 day cycle from the time I create a sub to fruit. I know that pretty damn good but I am just trying to get more for less you know what I mean

stonestare said:

Yes sir on the temps, I was keeping my sub at 82 degrees while it is colinizing and kept contaming out so I had to drop it to 75 degrees. I found an article about using C02 during the sub colinize phase and during agar plate work. Acording to that article a C02 rich atmoshphere between 20 and 25 % is optimum. I tried putting aluminum foil with 4 dime size holes in it on top of my sub and contam out, I tried putting my sub material into a black trash bag then putting it into a tub with a twist tie on the bag and contam out. Next time I roll I will use C02 since I have all the equip for my ladies. When I dropped my temp I stopped contaming so I know its this 85 year old house and hopefully with C02 I can shave a day or 2 off of my time.

http://pubman.mpdl.mpg.de/pubman/item/escidoc:39635:6/component/escidoc:52583/sengbusch_643_PDFA.pdf

The reason I was wanting to know the enzyme is to try and push the time ahead, right now I m on a 18 day cycle from the time I create a sub to fruit. I know that pretty damn good but I am just trying to get more for less you know what I mean

Click to expand...

Yeah - 18 days from spawn to fruit is better than I have ever seen.


With your co2, you could enhance early on but remember that the mycelium makes pounds of co2 all by itself, after only a few days any containment at all will bump your ppm up into a good range. off hand I believe you are looking for 6,000 ppm, maybe even 7 or 8. This makes the reduction of CO2 at pin time all the more powerful.


Lots of people say lots of things about temperature and contamintion. I happen to believe that temperature won't matter as the mycelium grows as fast as the contam. What I think happens is that elevated temperatures you get condensation - a killer in old houses - if you are going to keep the temps up, make them STAY up all the time and don't spray at all. (I never do anyway unless I am initiating a pin - then I like ice water, twice a day for the three days after I've dropped the CO2.) um.... the ice water? is very probably just supersitition - we all are subject to that, even me I really doubt that a few seconds of cold shock and a few more of cool evaporation will have much of an effect.


BUT - I don't care what anyone says, an environmental shock of 10 or better 20 degrees for three days while you drop your co2 AND while you give your mycelium it's first light will offer you crazy results. People argue on some of the mushroom boards over and over again about casing and cold but in this case there really is no argument.




That is the method for getting pin sets like these - look closely and see that you have primorida below the primorida. If your substrate is deep enough none of those will abort - as you see in the first picture.

In a nutshell this is my grow. I create spawn and while it is colinizing I keep temp between 70-72 degrees that takes 8 to 10 days pending on time of year. Yes the winter slows me down even though I keep my house at 70 during the winter. I made a hot box I circulate 78 degree water through a coil that is heated by a heating elament.That maintains a 72 degree temp. When I make a sub I place all ingrediants in a commercial black trash bag yes the heavy expensive units then I place the bag in my tub. I flatten the sub with a wooden paint stick covered in aluminum foil of course the stick is washed with rubbing alc prior to insertion. Then I take a piece of plywood that is a touch smaller than my tub covered in foil wiped with alc and I stand on the wood to compress the sub slightly. I close the bag off with a twist tie and keep it in a room in COMPLETE darkness. I have aluminum foil over the window, a very heavy drape covering the window and I put a towel at the base of the door so I limit all the light I can while it is colinizing.

I wait 8 days check the sub. When the top of the sub is 80% white I case with pure coir. I use marbles and the paint stick to do this. I pull the marbels out of a bowl of rubbing alch air dry in my hand 1 at a time then drop them on the sub. I use 6 total then I put the coir on and level the coir with the paint stick covered in foil.When I am done I remove the marbels fill the holes. the marbles are 3/8 inch in dia. so I know exactly how thich the casing is. Very rarely do I mist a tub the casing normally has enough moisture to maintain humidity.

I read in commercial app that they compress the sub slighlty so that is why I stand on the sub and I know that knocked 2 days off my total time for the sub to colinize to fruit.I am trying to get pinning like yours so I will try the cold shock technique and see if I can get there as well. I am not growing right now, I am going to switch from popcorn casting coir to milo straw coir.Popcorn is too fucking expensive the last run I did I used 150 pounds of popcorn. I live in farmland and milo is $9 for 55 pounds right from the grain bin. I am in research mode right now waiting for spring then I will get rolling again. I keep meticulious notes and never thought about C02 levels in the bag prior to opening. I just found that C02 article 3 days ago. I thought using C02 in my old house would help prevent the bad shit from competing with the myc and allow me to get temps up to the 80-82 degree range.

Sounds like you have it down. Regarding your contamination situation, you are going to have to go to different methods. examine your contamination situation.


Contamination grows in microclimates where there is air stagnation. It grows in places where the ph is different (your coir may be a source as coir is intentionaly innoculated with trich - I like to sterilize my coir then put it in the open air and then after a week or so, pasteurize - but I don't use straight coir - and you should consider adjusting your ph to more basic - in fact if you are having a real problem with trich especially, make it really basic, it will depress growth for a bit but it will really inhibit your contamination rates.

Yes, Compressing the substrate is a great idea - and depending upon your substrate you can compress it a lot - finely chopped straw can be compressed into very solid blocks and yield huge amounts of any mushroom that likes straw. I find a gentle compression of your casing helps as well.

BUT - you have an excelent opening gambit for an even pinset. The flatter your substrate the more likely that your mycelium will reach the surface at the same time. The flatter your casing the more that holds - if you have level conditions such as those you can riffle the very top of your casing with tiny rows or cross hatches - this will train your pins and you can get the ultimate sets. Keep your substrate depth at 8 inches or more - up to 12 or so - the only inhibiting factor there is self generated heat, you could over heat a core if your substrate is too deep and that believe me, is a horrible horrible thing - to have the inside rot and invite all sorts of things including bugs to spread while you don't even know.

so you want to find a way to gently circulate your air while keeping it moist and at high ph - think you can do that?


if you do the temperature thing, the co2 thing, the light thing, the depth thing, and the cross hatch thing - AND you have your table flat substrate and casing you can come up with something like this -


Notice the lower left hand corner of the first picture - it was contaminated early on and I was forced to treat it with salt - as you can see it is possible to come out ok even after a major trich attack.

When I get my coir it is in compressed blocks. I have been using a 30 qt cooler, I place blocks along the bottom then fill it full of roiling boiling water. I let it sit for 6 to 8 hours squeeze out the excess and mix it with my castings then pasturize. Keep in ming I made a tray out of stainless steel from the scrap bin at work and I can put in 20 pounds of castings and coir. I cook it at 160 for 4 hours. I may need to add 2 more hours to my cook time because trich is what I am fighting and thought it was from this old house. It had me baffled because I seal the bag off with a twist tie the put the lid on the tote thinking it would help but I still have trich issues.

When I make a sub I use weight and not volume. The last run I made I used 4.8 pounds of spawn to 2 pounds of casting/coir mix. I kept adding spawn to get a fuller canopy and thought I was adding to much. For my sub size it is 30X20 and 4 inches thick. I am at mycotopia and was told to go to a 6 inch thick sub at a minumum for that size of a sub. You should come thier they have 2 sections magic and edible, the edible you would proboly enjoy because it cover alot of differant species. That is what I love about this hobby I am an engine builder and the 2 of them there are endless possibilities. I have gained enough hands on growing that now I want to start pushing it and that is what knowledge I am trying to find out about.