Can you just eat decarbed bud dry?

HenryTheEighth said:

You Have Funny troubles my friend.

Bhang is made with leaf so four grams is a bargain basement weed drink for weekend warriors. The other ingredients cost more than the leaf.

One gram of flower will work for a cup of tea if you don’t have a huge tolerance. If that works for you then an ounce should last a month at one cup of tea per day.

If your oven is shit then can I suggest a ‘black garlic fermenter’. China eBay special.
Digital temp control and only goes to 90C or 194F. (That’s what mine does)
Great to have around for a slower precise decarb than the oven tech which is pretty shit like you say.
Do it over a few days rather than standing around the oven wondering if it’s working in 40 minutes or whatever.

I use my fermenter to cook off isopropyl slowly to make concentrate from bubble hash and decarb at the same time.

Click to expand...

I think it's a Cytochrome P450 monooxygenases first pass issue.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_pass_effect#:~:text=Notable drugs that experience a,, and tetrahydrocannabinol (THC). As you can see by the list THC is preferentially cleared during first pass and it's not uncommon, that we have some individuals with a more efficient first pass metabolism. With these people edible cannabis is better utilized by bypassing their liver to get an 'edible' high. Certainly binding THC to fat helps to more efficiently use what is left after the first pass.


This discusses what I'm referencing in more detail and how using an alcohol based tincture bypasses first pass when absorbed through the buccal mucosa, in a manner similar to inhalation. That's one of the reasons I was fascinated in the research to bring Sativex to market. Essentially this is a lesson in how mode of administration changes the character and quality of the drug administered.

Here's a nice article on bhang:

Cannabis is best consumed with a fat or alcohol carrier and since India has plenty of cows they often use full fat milk and fermented milk, kefir as a base.

Very interesting stuff and I hope Coz can find what works for him.

curious2garden said:

I think it's a Cytochrome P450 monooxygenases first pass issue.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_pass_effect#:~:text=Notable drugs that experience a,, and tetrahydrocannabinol (THC). As you can see by the list THC is preferentially cleared during first pass and it's not uncommon, that we have some individuals with a more efficient first pass metabolism. With these people edible cannabis is better utilized by bypassing their liver to get an 'edible' high. Certainly binding THC to fat helps to more efficiently use what is left after the first pass.

The pharmacokinetics and the pharmacodynamics of cannabinoids

There is increasing interest in the use of cannabinoids for disease and symptom management, but limited information available regarding their pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics to guide prescribers. Cannabis medicines contain a wide variety of chemical ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

This discusses what I'm referencing in more detail and how using an alcohol based tincture bypasses first pass when absorbed through the buccal mucosa, in a manner similar to inhalation. That's one of the reasons I was fascinated in the research to bring Sativex to market. Essentially this is a lesson in how mode of administration changes the character and quality of the drug administered.

Here's a nice article on bhang:

The Surprising History of Bhang, India’s Edible Cannabis Drink

During Holi, if you go to the right spot, your milky thandai might contain a hint of bhang, Indian edible cannabis.

food52.com

Cannabis is best consumed with a fat or alcohol carrier and since India has plenty of cows they often use full fat milk and fermented milk, kefir as a base.

Very interesting stuff and I hope Coz can find what works for him.

Click to expand...

Yeah C2G if was starting to wonder the same things.
I was gunna ask Coz if he does get high off other peoples edible’s.
Is it just him?
I guess we will find out soon when Coz goes a travelling to the weed buddies who should rock his world, but who knows?

Coz the Shroom said:

oven is ALWAYS the first thing anyone tries. It didn't work and that is why I went through two ounces trying to do it another way. Bangh Lassi calls four FOUR GRAMS of weed. For a single drink. I could smoke four grams for a week. I am not privy to the weed money Snoop Dog or Iron Mike get, I'm on social security.
No9body gets it. I've tried it all. And AFTER I tried it all and asked and got many helpful answers, I tried it all some more. Nothing is working. I have a machine that I tested with my thermometer. Same machine with many satisfied customers. even this doesn't work!
I'm getting on a rural transit bus this week and going up to Ruidoso. I got many friends up there who are weed experts, I know they can do it, so they can come over here and see what the fuck I'm doing wrong. because it is obviously something that nobody seems to be able to teach me from words alone. I know sounds crazy. 240 40 minutes how hard can it be? in foil tent, on pyrex dish? ground finely? rice sized nugs? FUCK NO!!!!! NONE OF IT WORKED!!!!! THE OVEN IS UNRELIABLE SHIT!!!!!!
No I need someone to come over here and hold my wittle hand , to point out all the visual cues and smell cues . I got an iron. it heats up to exactly 250 degrees and stays there when you set it down on something. 250 for 30 nothing.

Click to expand...

I grow outdoors at very little cost. If you were here I'd toss you an ounce or three. Been years since I had your problem. Sorry.

curious2garden said:

I think it's a Cytochrome P450 monooxygenases first pass issue.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_pass_effect#:~:text=Notable drugs that experience a,, and tetrahydrocannabinol (THC). As you can see by the list THC is preferentially cleared during first pass and it's not uncommon, that we have some individuals with a more efficient first pass metabolism. With these people edible cannabis is better utilized by bypassing their liver to get an 'edible' high. Certainly binding THC to fat helps to more efficiently use what is left after the first pass.

The pharmacokinetics and the pharmacodynamics of cannabinoids

There is increasing interest in the use of cannabinoids for disease and symptom management, but limited information available regarding their pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics to guide prescribers. Cannabis medicines contain a wide variety of chemical ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

This discusses what I'm referencing in more detail and how using an alcohol based tincture bypasses first pass when absorbed through the buccal mucosa, in a manner similar to inhalation. That's one of the reasons I was fascinated in the research to bring Sativex to market. Essentially this is a lesson in how mode of administration changes the character and quality of the drug administered.

Here's a nice article on bhang:

The Surprising History of Bhang, India’s Edible Cannabis Drink

During Holi, if you go to the right spot, your milky thandai might contain a hint of bhang, Indian edible cannabis.

food52.com

Cannabis is best consumed with a fat or alcohol carrier and since India has plenty of cows they often use full fat milk and fermented milk, kefir as a base.

Very interesting stuff and I hope Coz can find what works for him.

Click to expand...

Are you saying some "green dragon" underneath my tounge for a few minutes will bypass the liver (assuming I spit out the remaining bit afterward) & I'll get a medicinal effect similar to vaping?

DrDukePHD said:

Are you saying some "green dragon" underneath my tounge for a few minutes will bypass the liver (assuming I spit out the remaining bit afterward) & I'll get a medicinal effect similar to vaping?

Click to expand...

Based on the mode of administration, in your use case it will give you a different type of high. I can't predict what that will be for you. I wouldn't spit it out I'd swallow (I can not believe I just typed that) but yeah I stand by it LOL. I'd love to hear your experience.

HenryTheEighth said:

Yeah C2G if was starting to wonder the same things.
I was gunna ask Coz if he does get high off other peoples edible’s.
Is it just him?
I guess we will find out soon when Coz goes a travelling to the weed buddies who should rock his world, but who knows?

Click to expand...

oh yeah. I get as blitzed as I've ever been in my life on edibles and it lasts for hours and hours, I truly want to keep the pipes and chillums for social occasions and just medicate my mouth for the rest of my life. I'm 56 years old and climb mountains, I'm in peak health, moreso than even in my youth, my biggest weakness is phlegm , mucous, congestion, and panic attacks that I get from the feel that I am suffocating (I had apnea when I was 240 lbs).

The doctor suggested I eat my weed instead of smoke it and that is my quest. I'm going to send my brother up in Doso screenshots of my problem. This dude is such a pothead that his mother named him "Marijuana" when he was born (they had to change it to Michael).

In the 90's I tinctured into alcohol or olive oil with great success and four years ago I managed to make a weak but acceptable oil.

Coz the Shroom said:

oh yeah. I get as blitzed as I've ever been in my life on edibles and it lasts for hours and hours, I truly want to keep the pipes and chillums for social occasions and just medicate my mouth for the rest of my life. I'm 56 years old and climb mountains, I'm in peak health, moreso than even in my youth, my biggest weakness is phlegm , mucous, congestion, and panic attacks that I get from the feel that I am suffocating (I had apnea when I was 240 lbs).

The doctor suggested I eat my weed instead of smoke it and that is my quest. I'm going to send my brother up in Doso screenshots of my problem. This dude is such a pothead that his mother named him "Marijuana" when he was born (they had to change it to Michael).

In the 90's I tinctured into alcohol or olive oil with great success and four years ago I managed to make a weak but acceptable oil.

Click to expand...

I agree with your quest. Edibles are so much healthier than the products of combustion. Keep working on it. I'm curious what you find out and hope you crack the mystery for you.

I'm beginning to think that it isn't the methods that are failing, but the information. I read back on my earlier posts and realized I was saying things like "but a croc pot can't get hot enough to decarb weed" so I'm thinking maybe I've got too much bad information because I started out by just trying to search the Google for answers. Like all search results for "croc pot cannabutter" say decarb the weed first. And wouldn't you figure, most of these results are sponsored by people who have a financial interest in selling a product to take the guesswork out of it.

I bought one of those machines and at first thought it was defective, but it essentially is 225f for 1 hour, a slow, stable, lower, but correct temperature.
I'd offer to pay someone just to explain to me how the fuck that is even possible!!!!!
But you know, if I could hire someone I could also go to a weed bakery and eat canolis every day for 25$ a pop.

on the other hand I got information about many methods that have worked for many people over here. Just from the lasw of averages alone you would think I'd have hit ONE that works by now.

But my bro out there said "decarb is easy 7 to 10 minutes in 200-290 heat.

That is possibly the most vague and unhelpful answer anyone has given to me! that a range of temperatures and times gives me 2 variable 5 minute intervals to try and 9 different 10 degree increment variables. That is a total of 18 different times and temps to shoot for and only 1 is going to ring the bell. Plus I have no device that will allow me to heat anything with that degree of prescision. I couldn't buy the expesive iron, you know, there are no temperatures written on it. I have to move the dail and heat it up and shoot it again and again to test the temperature, and that is about the only thing I have that can be set to 2oo degrees then 21o, then 22o and s0 0n.

But there's hippy chick Melissa. She owns and opperates a dispensary! She's usually too busy for any personal time with a friend, but I know she'll be able to show me how in a second.

My bro didn't get to read the screenshots I sent him cause its on his phone and the letters are too small, but when he gets a chance to look at them on a bigger screen, he will probably understand how remarkably difficult this has been.

And my brother from another mother's mother, probably knows how and has probably been doing it for 60 years! I've eaten brownies baked by Chris Cherry, so he knows how. And I could probably conjure half a dozen more names, but I am trying to be less long winded (can you guess that I hated TWITTER the first time I tried it and never used my account in ten years?)
Nay, Coz the Shroom so much as Cose the Verbose!

Peace, friends. I'll be happy to share what I've learned when this is done, and like I said, I'm done with modern internet. I'm going retro, so I'll be back just because I like interacting with people this way-- it is really teaching me a lot about how much using modern social media has secretly been training my mind to go along with groupthink herd mentality bullshit.

I like you guys, I am grateful to be finding my way out of the alienating landscape of corporate controlled internet. I'm still coming here, and hip forums and the shroomery, and I am visiting that other bullshit and using it less and less every week.

One thing that would be very helpful is to know if this is a true fact or not:
when you eat weed that's decarbed it turns to THC-11 in the liver which last longer and is 5X as potent as combusted weed.
1/2 a gram of weed smoked will get me gassed out of my gourd. I've been testing 1/2 gram batches assuming that after eating a successfully decarbed half gram I would then be so fucking stoned that I would need to get in bed and try to sleep it off.

I'm not kidding , I'm intentionally trying to overdose just to know I've prepared it fully.

But I've had other things that are supposed to be X times stronger and aren't. Butyl Alchohol is supposed to be 6X stronger and 3X more toxic than ethanol. I tried drinking it because I didn't want ethanol to interfere with my blood sugar maintenance.

Well I drank enough butanol to exactly match the equivalent volume of ethanol and not only was it NOT 6X stronger (I was NOT trying to overdose in this case-- I had to work my way up to that dose!) AT ALL but BARELY gave me the slightest buzz.

I don't mind giving up alcohol for my health. I did get the full "3x as toxic," not that I could tell, but I don't like to tax my liver too hard too often. I rarely try birdbrained shit like that these days, but I was one of many internet guinea pigs who tested multiple obscure internet drugs throughout the 90s.

I seldom do anything more than weed these days, and it is usually something equally as harmless like acid or shrooms when I do go off script.

HenryTheEighth said:

You Have Funny troubles my friend.

Bhang is made with leaf so four grams is a bargain basement weed drink for weekend warriors. The other ingredients cost more than the leaf.

One gram of flower will work for a cup of tea if you don’t have a huge tolerance. If that works for you then an ounce should last a month at one cup of tea per day.

If your oven is shit then can I suggest a ‘black garlic fermenter’. China eBay special.
Digital temp control and only goes to 90C or 194F. (That’s what mine does)
Great to have around for a slower precise decarb than the oven tech which is pretty shit like you say.
Do it over a few days rather than standing around the oven wondering if it’s working in 40 minutes or whatever.

I use my fermenter to cook off isopropyl slowly to make concentrate from bubble hash and decarb at the same time.

Click to expand...

yeah I get it now. I looked up those recipes for bhang and I was thinking "4 grams of leaf or flower" well to me that means 4 grams of leaf or bud , because we call bud "flower" here... so maybe "flower" actually referrs to trim. Makes much more sense. My brother up in Ruidoso says he got a pound of leaf he can give me for making bhang, so I'm excited to explore. I'll be much more free and easy with experimenting when its a pound of leaf and its free!

He says he put butter, weed and a cheezecloth in a mason jar, boil for three hours in double boiler. Well I plan on straining it later, but this is the ONE method I did not try because "boiling" is 212 degrees to MOST of you and 202 degrees for me! Me and my bro!
Well I'm getting it started, but I might wait until tomorrow to test it, since I just ate and broke my fast.
I had to alter his method #1 because I didn't have enough cheesecloth to fit in the mason jar, but no big deal, just strain afterwards...
#2 the old Manson jar done wore out. Heat fracture, now I'm doing the method where you float the butter directly on top of the water to infuse and decarb, but this time for the three hours that
He didn't know what to make of it when I told him I actually bought a machine that tested good for time and temp, worked for everyone else who bought it, did NOT work for me.

curious2garden said:

I think it's a Cytochrome P450 monooxygenases first pass issue.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_pass_effect#:~:text=Notable drugs that experience a,, and tetrahydrocannabinol (THC). As you can see by the list THC is preferentially cleared during first pass and it's not uncommon, that we have some individuals with a more efficient first pass metabolism. With these people edible cannabis is better utilized by bypassing their liver to get an 'edible' high. Certainly binding THC to fat helps to more efficiently use what is left after the first pass.

The pharmacokinetics and the pharmacodynamics of cannabinoids

There is increasing interest in the use of cannabinoids for disease and symptom management, but limited information available regarding their pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics to guide prescribers. Cannabis medicines contain a wide variety of chemical ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

This discusses what I'm referencing in more detail and how using an alcohol based tincture bypasses first pass when absorbed through the buccal mucosa, in a manner similar to inhalation. That's one of the reasons I was fascinated in the research to bring Sativex to market. Essentially this is a lesson in how mode of administration changes the character and quality of the drug administered.

Here's a nice article on bhang:

The Surprising History of Bhang, India’s Edible Cannabis Drink

During Holi, if you go to the right spot, your milky thandai might contain a hint of bhang, Indian edible cannabis.

food52.com

Cannabis is best consumed with a fat or alcohol carrier and since India has plenty of cows they often use full fat milk and fermented milk, kefir as a base.

Very interesting stuff and I hope Coz can find what works for him.

Click to expand...

Can one have sudden changes in Cytochrome P450 monooxygenases levels that might explain why I got nicely baked on the THC capsules I bought this summer, but didn't get baked like two weeks later on my home batches? I suspect I'll have to test that out, and I think I will go buy that weed consumable at the dispensary tomorrow and see if I might have experienced a sudden change in liver function.

Coz the Shroom said:

Can one have sudden changes in Cytochrome P450 monooxygenases levels that might explain why I got nicely baked on the THC capsules I bought this summer, but didn't get baked like two weeks later on my home batches? I suspect I'll have to test that out, and I think I will go buy that weed consumable at the dispensary tomorrow and see if I might have experienced a sudden change in liver function.

Click to expand...

If they worked once I'd absolutely try them again. Please report back. I'm curious

conor c said:

It works fine but tbh all i do is decarb it then throw it into choclate bars i use about a half ounce or over like say 16 grams of weed to make two 150 gram chocoate bars that way a couple of squares has an effect u dont need to eat a whole bar just to get baked il eat like 6 sqaures but i like it strong for many thats too much i also find outta all the chocolate to use terrys chocolate orange is the best it hides the taste and makes it kick in faster than any other ime i put it down to the edible orange oil in that i reckon that must help it kick in that bit quicker cos ive tried every brand going and thats what worked best for me my mum and my friends its better than eating raw bud n chocolates easy to melt n reset/mould and keeps longer in the fridge than say a cake would i just use a gas oven low as it can go for the decarb

Click to expand...

Have a recipe or is it really as simple as melting the chocolate and adding the decarb weed?

Coz the Shroom said:

yeah I get it now. I looked up those recipes for bhang and I was thinking "4 grams of leaf or flower" well to me that means 4 grams of leaf or bud , because we call bud "flower" here... so maybe "flower" actually referrs to trim. Makes much more sense. My brother up in Ruidoso says he got a pound of leaf he can give me for making bhang, so I'm excited to explore. I'll be much more free and easy with experimenting when its a pound of leaf and its free!

Click to expand...

I haven’t looked at specific recipes other than to see that it’s mostly cheap leaf that is used.
And to be grinding it into a paste I imagine it’s fresh leaf as well but maybe they grind dry - but I doubt it.
It would surely be a seasonal festival thing when the plant is growing everywhere?

They probable do make it with flower for the more hardcore Bhang heads in India.

That’s a boss move with the free leaf and ideas to experiment. I’d say chuck it straight in the freezer and start experimenting with batches.
It would be even better if you could find a grower that tosses their trim. That would be a hella score for free!

Dude you could start making Bhang Icecream on a stick!?
That could be a clever enterprise for you to try?

HydroKid239 said:

The dosage all depends on the potency I believe.
Here’s the formula according to High times.


The Formula
Here’s how to do it:

1 gram of cannabis = 1000 milligrams

10% of 1000 milligrams is 100 milligrams

This means that, assuming we are using “average” marijuana, one gram of cannabis contains 100 milligrams of THC.


Are you with me so far?

Next, let’s calculate how many milligrams are in a batch of marijuana butter.

As an example, let’s say I used one ounce (equaling 28 grams) of average quality marijuana to make one cup of butter. That would mean 2800 milligrams of THC went into that one cup of butter.

Moving on, the amount of THC in a given recipe will depend on the amount of butter used.

If I used 1/2 cup of that butter to make a batch of 36 cookies, then 

the entire batch would contain 1400 milligrams. Divide 1400 mg by the number of servings, in this case 36, to determine that each cookie will contain about 38.8 milligrams of THC.

To recap, first you need to estimate the percentage of THC in your plant material (or use the numbers from the lab test) and divide that into 1000 to get the per milligram amount.

Next, calculate the number of milligrams in your infusion and in the amount of infusion you will use to make your recipe. Divide that by the number of servings your recipe makes, and you will know the per serving dose.

You can use this formula to create recipes that always ensure you are delivering a THC dose that meets your needs.

If you find a given recipe delivers too strong of a dose, cut the amount of cannabutter or oil and dilute with regular butter or oil to make up the difference. Cookies not strong enough? Add more THC to your recipe with some decarboxylated kief, hash or hash oil.

Click to expand...

I am assuming this is a type-o?

1 gram of cannabis = 1000 milligrams

it should read 1 gram of cannabis = 100 milligrams?

If 28 grams is 2800 milligrams then 1 gram would = 100 right?

"As an example, let’s say I used one ounce (equaling 28 grams) of average quality marijuana to make one cup of butter. That would mean 2800 milligrams of THC went into that one cup of butter."

with all do respect.

Orin190 said:

I am assuming this is a type-o?

1 gram of cannabis = 1000 milligrams

it should read 1 gram of cannabis = 100 milligrams?

If 28 grams is 2800 milligrams then 1 gram would = 100 right?

"As an example, let’s say I used one ounce (equaling 28 grams) of average quality marijuana to make one cup of butter. That would mean 2800 milligrams of THC went into that one cup of butter."

with all do respect.

Click to expand...

it all depends on the UV light that the plant gets and the feed u do ......think in the terms of OIL weight avg is a 10% return on weight your 100 mgs to 1 gram ...but done right u can get 20-25% return on the weight

Orin190 said:

I am assuming this is a type-o?

1 gram of cannabis = 1000 milligrams

it should read 1 gram of cannabis = 100 milligrams?

If 28 grams is 2800 milligrams then 1 gram would = 100 right?

"As an example, let’s say I used one ounce (equaling 28 grams) of average quality marijuana to make one cup of butter. That would mean 2800 milligrams of THC went into that one cup of butter."

with all do respect.

Click to expand...

Actually I think it's right...

Cannabis weighs 1 gr in dry weight, or in other words, 1000 mg. Let’s say you have a 1 gram joint with a THC concentration of 14%. The best way to calculate is to multiply the weight of the joint in milligrams by the THC concentration of the marijuana strain.

1 gram joint = 1000 milligrams, therefore:

1000 x 0.14 = 150 mg of THC in one gram joint.

Hey I'll post the rest of this elsewhere. Just noticed while trying to edit a sentence that I'm starting to get stoned off that butter I ate an hour and a half ago. Sorry to have hijacked the thread, but damned if you weren't all very kind and welcoming, even if I was stressed and freaked out from frustration. I hope you found that amuzing. but it really did remind me of how I used to do that back in the 90s. I did use a double boiler like brother said! That was the whole thing. It was the one thing I didn't try because I was so fucking hung up on trying to work it all out with my brain and I knew the difference in sea level would require more mathematical acumen than I possess to sort out. I had forgotten my brother. god it was great talking to him again. I suspected something very strange was going on. I went at this with my ego driving me, but I came here with an open heart, because I've been shedding that burden. listening more. opening my eyes and ears. why do you think I'm on the forums, huh? Most of my friends abandoned the alienation of having cybernetic mind games imposed on us by autoritarian bots . wow! autoritarian! that's a typo, but I keep good typos!
It's alienating what Facebook does to people. I'm going more and more retro internet. I haven't cut the chord, but you know I got a lot of friends there too, but I miss people on the forums. I was on Lycaeum, edot (everyone called entheogen.com edot), spirit plant forums, garage rock dot com, punkerockers dot com, and Kevin's Watch, which would only mean something to you if you knew a certain story about as leper named Thomas Covenant. I don't believe in god, but I do feel that I needed to reach out to people, so maybe some monkish madness is going on and that mad scientist ego part of me that was trying to experiment was working against a reality created by his true self. I'm serious I've been experiencing remarkable changes since I've been on my path. I was erring from the path and my true self gated me to an alternate reality using quantum entanglement. I was reading back on those old post because I wanted to share them with brother. I steered him this way. He's been part of my path for a very long time. But before I thank my brother for getting me to me gazed out tonight... wow! yes! definiately stoned!
I came to thank you all you have all been patient, kind and welcoming, and I know I was guided here by the forece or some shit. That's another trip I'm on. Me and my dad saw Star Wars together in the theater for the first time when it came out and the force blew his mind so much that he used it in his religious talks for like TEN YEARS after that!!!! But I swear this is true-- after he died? He's been in my head like a force ghosdt completeing my jedi training. I'm in therapy, and well, my therapist was this godess who came to me in a vision bathed in golden light holding before me cuneform tablets and I call herthe sleep teacher, but I know, you know, I make the connections, between entities in my mind and people in my life, right? But I knew someday she would teach me something, and she did and she unlocked my mind.
WTF am I doing, I'm trying to say I'm thanking you first because there are so many of you who wished me well and I feel like I was guided here and I feel I am about to make a lot of new friends, which is something I think we are all going to be needing more of in the shifting sands of our turbulant times.
I am guided by love and light at all times ... yeah I do believe if I had not SMOKED so much weed earlier this would be as stoned as I've been since I got the iron to work one time!
Yeah, I think these guys that sell the expensive machines use the autoritarian bots to promote the idea that you can not decarb at lower temps. That's something I encountered during my long searches. Now that I remembered I used to do tinctures in the doulbe boiler the same way. I think I got it now. I was trying to re-invent the wheel, I had to re-learn the technique I had forgotten at sea level and my brother's only 2000 feet higher than me, so that's only two degrees off as opposed to TEN for all you brothers and sisters at sea level.
I hope some you get to meet DJ Malifick Satyrino. He's a living wonder and I'm signing off to go thank him until I'm ready to crash... uh anytime now! wow!
Me him and my wife were in "the Boner Gang"

good night. I return you your thread.