Can I cool a 4k room with 14,000 BTUs?

Aeroknow

Aeroknow

Well-Known Member
superstoner1 said:
Lay out your personal experience with this set up for us please. I do have a very sealed, very well built, basement room with excellent air flow on the lights but anything less than 4000btu per light is going the put tremendous stress on a crucial system. This is the 4th different cooling system I have had, including water cooling, and minis are definitely the way to go and the inverters are worth it, but a few hundred more for a better system that doesn't struggle is worth it many times over.
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Personal experience is 20 yrs indoor all up and down cali. 10 of those without doing sealed rooms, ten with. I have an electrician brother, a plumber brother, and an hvac cousin. I am a union drywall/lather by trade. I've personally built, and run shit loads of setups. Please don't take this as bragging, just laying out some cred. Lol. There's got to be something wrong when someones sealed growroom is not working well with the formula i mentioned. There are mathematical formulas to figure out heat, and how to combat it. Then there is real world experience. I always go over minimum requirements.
 
Sencha

Sencha

Active Member
If I could find a dual zone unit that did 16000 per side, that's what I would do. They simply don't exist. I may end up buying two 20,000 BTU units but I don't want to make that commitment until I know for sure.

The rooms are side by side on a flip because I don't want to pull 8k all at once. The rooms are 15' x 12.5' x 6'9" ceilings.
 
Aeroknow

Aeroknow

Well-Known Member
Sencha said:
If I could find a dual zone unit that did 16000 per side, that's what I would do. They simply don't exist. I may end up buying two 20,000 BTU units but I don't want to make that commitment until I know for sure.

The rooms are side by side on a flip because I don't want to pull 8k all at once. The rooms are 15' x 12.5' x 6'9" ceilings.
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I know using window units sound getto, but sometimes it makes more sense for smaller setups than a split or mini-split. Stealth. No compressor unit outdoor. Many different sizes. No hvac person needed. If you cant put one in a window, put it thru-wall, and the back of unit into a "plenum" room, and air-cool the plenum.
 
Sencha

Sencha

Active Member
I can't do that. Walls to the "plenum" room are concrete. I would hardly call 8k a small setup. Thanks for all the help.
 
SnapsProvolone

SnapsProvolone

Well-Known Member
Sencha said:
If I could find a dual zone unit that did 16000 per side, that's what I would do. They simply don't exist. I may end up buying two 20,000 BTU units but I don't want to make that commitment until I know for sure.

The rooms are side by side on a flip because I don't want to pull 8k all at once. The rooms are 15' x 12.5' x 6'9" ceilings.
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They make 3 ton mini splits that run 18000 on each of two air handlers. One condenser.
 
SnapsProvolone

SnapsProvolone

Well-Known Member
Installing a mini is pretty easy. Get a set of gauges, vacuum pump and unless you have to extend linesets you won't need to braze with sil phos or staybrite. Order right lengths on linesets. Seal linesets, connect vacuum and gauges, pull vac hard and then let sit to verify it doesn't leak and only then release charge in condenser.

You will need to have a feed / disconnect installed to feed the condenser, it in turn feeds air handlers via cable provided with linesets. Spec feed wire gauge and OCPD (breaker) according to installation papers that come with the unit.
 
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budleydoright

Well-Known Member
I'm curious, when air cooling your sealed hoods and removing the heat they generate you obviously reduce the need for AC. Without that AC running and removing the moisture, how do you deal with the humidity? Do you run a dehumidifier? Are you removing heat from one source only ro replace it with another?
I have found running an 8-10k sealed room, that running my hoods open keeps my AC running the amount needed to keep my humidity in check. When things are cooler outside and there is less load on the AC as a result, adding another light will often ad the heat needed to keep the balance. Currently @ 9k and out of room, when things are big I do need to run a dehuey a bit and always need one at night.

When I ran water cooled light fixtures I found that I was having to run a dehuey 100% of the time and often needed an AC to remove the heat from the dehuey! So 3 refrigeration units cycling constantly. 2 to remove the heat and one putting some back in!

How do you balance that?
 
Sencha

Sencha

Active Member
I run a dehuey 24/7, gets about 4 pints during lights on. I have never tried bare bulb. I'm also having to scrub the heated air, off the lights, because it picks up odor.
 
Aeroknow

Aeroknow

Well-Known Member
budleydoright said:
I'm curious, when air cooling your sealed hoods and removing the heat they generate you obviously reduce the need for AC. Without that AC running and removing the moisture, how do you deal with the humidity? Do you run a dehumidifier? Are you removing heat from one source only ro replace it with another?
I have found running an 8-10k sealed room, that running my hoods open keeps my AC running the amount needed to keep my humidity in check. When things are cooler outside and there is less load on the AC as a result, adding another light will often ad the heat needed to keep the balance. Currently @ 9k and out of room, when things are big I do need to run a dehuey a bit and always need one at night.

When I ran water cooled light fixtures I found that I was having to run a dehuey 100% of the time and often needed an AC to remove the heat from the dehuey! So 3 refrigeration units cycling constantly. 2 to remove the heat and one putting some back in!

How do you balance that?
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^^^This is what happens when you oversize on the ac. I would add though, that certain hydro setups are going to add more humidity than others.
When ac is sized right, usually, humidity when lights on is ALMOST taken care. The dehu/s are mainly used during the night cycle.
 
SnapsProvolone

SnapsProvolone

Well-Known Member
Aeroknow said:
^^^This is what happens when you oversize on the ac. I would add though, that certain hydro setups are going to add more humidity than others.
When ac is sized right, usually, humidity when lights on is ALMOST taken care. The dehu/s are mainly used during the night cycle.
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No.

If you have more biomass you get more humidity.

I've run a 8kw sealed room with three tons and still HAD to run a drizair dehu in the room. Reason, massive trees that were 65 inches tall and 45" wide. Without dehu the AC ducts for upstairs rained condensation into my basement grow with lights on. Ambient here in Colorado is dry too.
 
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budleydoright

Well-Known Member
Aeroknow said:
^^^This is what happens when you oversize on the ac. I would add though, that certain hydro setups are going to add more humidity than others.
When ac is sized right, usually, humidity when lights on is ALMOST taken care. The dehu/s are mainly used during the night cycle.
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So a correctly sized ac with vented hoods would accomplish enough dehumidification? That doesn't seem possible.
I wasn't asking about my kit. My system runs nice and balanced, when it's in the cold of winter, all I do is ad another 2k to the equation.

My question is how do you balance a vented hood system when you are removing the heat? You are removing the need for AC which removes your dehumidification. Do you just ad a dehumidifier? Wouldn't you be better off leaving the heat load on the AC to keep things in balance?

I'm just curious how you guys do it. I have never run a vented room. Always sealed.
 
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budleydoright

Well-Known Member
Aeroknow said:
^^^This is what happens when you oversize on the ac. I would add though, that certain hydro setups are going to add more humidity than others.
When ac is sized right, usually, humidity when lights on is ALMOST taken care. The dehu/s are mainly used during the night cycle.
Click to expand...
So a correctly sized ac with vented hoods would accomplish enough dehumidification? That doesn't seem possible.
I wasn't asking about my kit. My system runs nice and balanced, when it's in the cold of winter, all I do is ad another 2k to the equation.

My question is how do you balance a vented hood system when you are removing the heat? You are removing the need for AC which removes your dehumidification. Do you just ad a dehumidifier? Wouldn't you be better off leaving the heat load on the AC to keep things in balance?

I'm just curious how you guys do it. I have never run a vented room. Always sealed.
 
Aeroknow

Aeroknow

Well-Known Member
I said almost. You gotta agree though that if you have too big of an ac, usually, the ac is going to cylcle on/off more frequently, thus more time for humidity to build up in between cycles. Twas just a point i was trying to make
 
superstoner1

superstoner1

Well-Known Member
One thing that I never even considered is not having a stand alone dehumidifier. Humidity and temperature are two completely different but equally important environmental factors and if you have gone to the trouble to have a well built grow why would you not want the most control of every factor? A benefit of an ac is the removal of water, but it is not its built function, its a result of its function.
 
Aeroknow

Aeroknow

Well-Known Member
SnapsProvolone said:
No.

If you have more biomass you get more humidity.

I've run a 8kw sealed room with three tons and still HAD to run a drizair dehu in the room. Reason, massive trees that were 65 inches tall and 45" wide. Without dehu the AC ducts for upstairs rained condensation into my basement grow with lights on. Ambient here in Colorado is dry too.
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And absolutely, more biomass is gonna add more humidity also. Agreed
 
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budleydoright

Well-Known Member
Aeroknow said:
I said almost. You gotta agree though that if you have too big of an ac, usually, the ac is going to cylcle on/off more frequently, thus more time for humidity to build up in between cycles. Twas just a point i was trying to make
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C'mon, everyone knows that! That's like the gieco commercial!

Really, to me it seems like air cooling your hoods is no more effecient but like I said I have never done it. Just doing the math.
 
Aeroknow

Aeroknow

Well-Known Member
superstoner1 said:
One thing that I never even considered is not having a stand alone dehumidifier. Humidity and temperature are two completely different but equally important environmental factors and if you have gone to the trouble to have a well built grow why would you not want the most control of every factor? A benefit of an ac is the removal of water, but it is not its built function, its a result of its function.
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Read my post again. I never said dehu is NOT needed while lights on
 
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