Breeding for plant structure?

since1991

since1991

Well-Known Member
Iam no cannabis breeder by any stretch but id like peoples opinions on this. How much of a factor does plant structure play in the selection process of so called breeders? Seems weak branches that dont hold big buds up (bud flop) is the norm on alot of varieties. Especially these days. I dont think its priority with breeders selection goals. I dont know about you all but plant canopy management is by far my weakest link when trying for big yields. Training for staking and net trellis is a pain in my ass. But if you dont....yields suffer. Strong branches that can support big buds can certainly be a trait goal thats selected for when breeding but i dont think many do. Whats your take???
 
RM3

RM3

Well-Known Member
I mostly breed Sat Dom Hybrids that are open & airy for better indoor light penetration with lots o bud sites. But I also look for strong branches when picking strains for breeding.

Tis also a good reason for adding Silica to your grow as it helps beef the stems up
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T_SAM_1048.JPG
 
kmog33

kmog33

Well-Known Member
Structure is something I definitely look for when breeding. The thing is, a lot of the most fire/prettiest nugs are little golf balls with huge swollen calyx.

A lot of breeders have tried breeding yield into these strains, which works sometimes, but yield and potency seem to be partially correlated with most strains. I personally like the gold balls better than the huge long sat nugs. Just my preference. I also like to try and breed for mug structure that requires the least amount of trimming, so highest calyx:leaf ratio.


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kmog33

kmog33

Well-Known Member
Also if you tie/stake you buds up whether or not the branches are thick and sturdy, yields generally increase. Your taking energy the plant usually uses to holding itself up and allowing that energy to be used for flower growth instead.


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RM3

RM3

Well-Known Member
Here is a pic of the bottom branch closer to harvest

no larf here 8)

and as most know I flower with T5's and this bud is over 3 feet from the lights
.
T_SAM_2865.JPG
 
a mongo frog

a mongo frog

Well-Known Member
RM3 said:
Here is a pic of the bottom branch closer to harvest

no larf here 8)

and as most know I flower with T5's and this bud is over 3 feet from the lights
.
View attachment 3646952
Click to expand...
How much longer on those? With all due respect everything but the lead flower on those lowers need more time to be considered top shelf nugs. I still cant get over the bud quality and the size of flowers you get with T-5 fixtures, its just amazing!!!
 
RM3

RM3

Well-Known Member
a mongo frog said:
How much longer on those? With all due respect everything but the lead flower on those lowers need more time to be considered top shelf nugs. I still cant get over the bud quality and the size of flowers you get with T-5 fixtures, its just amazing!!!
Click to expand...
They were harvested 10 days after that pic was taken

I don't sell anything, I grow just for me and I promise they will give ya a top shelf buzz 8)

And Thank You on the usin T5 thing, I simply do what I do
 
Joedank

Joedank

Well-Known Member
since1991 said:
Iam no cannabis breeder by any stretch but id like peoples opinions on this. How much of a factor does plant structure play in the selection process of so called breeders? Seems weak branches that dont hold big buds up (bud flop) is the norm on alot of varieties. Especially these days. I dont think its priority with breeders selection goals. I dont know about you all but plant canopy management is by far my weakest link when trying for big yields. Training for staking and net trellis is a pain in my ass. But if you dont....yields suffer. Strong branches that can support big buds can certainly be a trait goal thats selected for when breeding but i dont think many do. Whats your take???
Click to expand...
this is a breeding paradime close to my heart . thick/beefy(strong) stems are great BUT the drawbacks are to be considered ...
first is what is called sex linked traits . are beefy stems linked to male female patterns we can unlock ?
second is buyer related . are beefy stems and larger bracts going to hurt resin production AND cause more "wood" in the cannabis drug cutivar ...??

there are about 100 other things to consider but i would blame the lack of a "perfect " calcium to carbon ratio and light spectrum for alot of the stem weakness . my outdoor plants get beat up by the wind and even og's get thick / beefy stems...
 
since1991

since1991

Well-Known Member
Cultivation practices and environment play a huge factor (carbohydrate to nitrogen ratios....silica as an additive....wind stress) but its still largely genetic. And thats a good point...What are the drawbacks? Will selecting for a meaty plant structure make flowers less potent or tasty? I have no clue. But a cannabis breeder that can breed plant structure and strong stems to hold up highly potent aromatic buds like og kush or chemdog or other popular varieties (they all bud flop indoors) would get my business. I just think plant structure takes a backseat to potency taste and yield. Either that or the breeders found out strong structure sacrifices more desirable qualities.
 
RM3

RM3

Well-Known Member
since1991 said:
Cultivation practices and environment play a huge factor (carbohydrate to nitrogen ratios....silica as an additive....wind stress) but its still largely genetic. And thats a good point...What are the drawbacks? Will selecting for a meaty plant structure make flowers less potent or tasty? I have no clue. But a cannabis breeder that can breed plant structure and strong stems to hold up highly potent aromatic buds like og kush or chemdog or other popular varieties (they all bud flop indoors) would get my business. I just think plant structure takes a backseat to potency taste and yield. Either that or the breeders found out strong structure sacrifices more desirable qualities.
Click to expand...
I breed for the high, everything else is secondary
 
since1991

since1991

Well-Known Member
Joedank said:
this is a breeding paradime close to my heart . thick/beefy(strong) stems are great BUT the drawbacks are to be considered ...
first is what is called sex linked traits . are beefy stems linked to male female patterns we can unlock ?
second is buyer related . are beefy stems and larger bracts going to hurt resin production AND cause more "wood" in the cannabis drug cutivar ...??

there are about 100 other things to consider but i would blame the lack of a "perfect " calcium to carbon ratio and light spectrum for alot of the stem weakness . my outdoor plants get beat up by the wind and even og's get thick / beefy stems...
Click to expand...
And you also raise a good point that counters my "its still mostly genetic" line. Why does the same variety hold its weight outdoors (mostly - not all the time) moreso than that plant indoors?
 
since1991

since1991

Well-Known Member
RM3 said:
yeppers, but as I said, not my first consideration. I do like it though when it happens
Click to expand...
When it happens? Why not select and breed for it? Can you imagine an awesome og kush or a diesel that you didnt have to support the canopy during flowering? Like the old stout afghan landrace cultivars in the eighties? Those didnt need canopy management but the finished product was light years away from what we got now.
 
RM3

RM3

Well-Known Member
since1991 said:
When it happens? Why not select and breed for it? Can you imagine an awesome og kush or a diesel that you didnt have to support the canopy during flowering? Like the old stout afghan landrace cultivars in the eighties? Those didnt need canopy management but the finished product was light years away from what we got now.
Click to expand...
I understand what you are saying, but I am not breeding to sell beans in a seed bank. I breed Sat Dom Hybrids that have the rare translucent amber trait that was so prevalent in the 60's & 70's https://www.rollitup.org/t/o-me-o-my.904425/
 
Joedank

Joedank

Well-Known Member
since1991 said:
When it happens? Why not select and breed for it? Can you imagine an awesome og kush or a diesel that you didnt have to support the canopy during flowering? Like the old stout afghan landrace cultivars in the eighties? Those didnt need canopy management but the finished product was light years away from what we got now.
Click to expand...
they are out there but the size of the "lumber " in the nugs makes for a harsh/less potent smoke IMO..
 
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