Feisty1UR
Well-Known Member
I just saw the price and my face dropped...
How many of those kits would I need to suit a 4x4?
Best lights, lighting for a 4x4?
- Thread starter Feisty1UR
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How many of those kits would I need to suit a 4x4?
BM9AGS
Well-Known Member
Check out timber grow lights. Might be cheaper for ya depending where you live.
Feisty1UR
Well-Known Member
The only problem is, I don't have that kind of money yet. Well... that's a lie.. I do - however I feel spending nearly all I have on lights to be a bit ludicrous...
Surely it would be better for my position at the moment to stick with the HPS+Cool-Hood. Atleast it's second best, right? 
I'm still going to pull good numbers with my 4x4/600w regardless if I don't use COBs, then I upgrade from then on out
HydroRed
Well-Known Member
Without getting into too much, I would say as a vague answer you could get away with 400W of cob led lighting to do a sog grow in a 4x4.
The CX300 that PLC sells is sufficient for a 3x3 alone.The 5 cob DIY kit from Cutter was implied to suffice for a 3x3 also (if the cobs are arranged in the proper template) according to the FAQ on the site. If you are on a tight budget and need to get a grow up and going with great results and low start up cost -stick to the HID 600W ballast on a XXXL air cooled hood you already ordered. Get a few grows under your belt, stack some cash and make the move to led.
Feisty1UR
Well-Known Member
Yeah, sounds like my best option at the moment.
Very last question: Someone told me earlier that using "Jacks" nutrients would save alot of money in the long run instead of buying bottles of Canna A+B (What I'm currently using) Is that right? Looks like a rip off from miracle grow. I've never seen anyone use it, so i'm not sure
HydroRed
Well-Known Member
Yeah, sounds like my best option at the moment.
Very last question: Someone told me earlier that using "Jacks" nutrients would save alot of money in the long run instead of buying bottles of Canna A+B (What I'm currently using) Is that right? Looks like a rip off from miracle grow. I've never seen anyone use it, so i'm not sure
Sorry man, no experience there.
Feisty1UR
Well-Known Member
Alright no worries, just something I needed advice on. I'll keep looking, thanks for all the help
mauricem00
Well-Known Member
I feel your pain. as a retired PU MMJ grower those high end LEDs are well outside my budget. but with my T5s in a small closet grow i'm able to keep the medicine bowl filled and thats all that really matters.I think you will do just fine with the HID light you've already have and may gain more from learning growing methods that will improve your yield. would probably be a more cost effective approach. and remember that LEDs get better every year.and less expensive.an MH/HPS combo will grow great plants.learning to grow well will do a lot more for your yield than expensive grow lights. people are pulling 0.8 GPW with CFLs . but they know how to grow with those lights. technology is no substitute for knowledge and skillThe only problem is, I don't have that kind of money yet. Well... that's a lie.. I do - however I feel spending nearly all I have on lights to be a bit ludicrous...
I'm still going to pull good numbers with my 4x4/600w regardless if I don't use COBs, then I upgrade from then on out
coreywebster
Well-Known Member
They are expensive for sure! Especially when compared to hps. I have nearly always used 600w hps, These diy cob builds are new to me, just came across them a few months back and thought wow, then worked out the pricing and thought sheeeet!!The only problem is, I don't have that kind of money yet. Well... that's a lie.. I do - however I feel spending nearly all I have on lights to be a bit ludicrous...
I'm still going to pull good numbers with my 4x4/600w regardless if I don't use COBs, then I upgrade from then on out
You will be fine with your 600w if you have them and all the hoods bought. once your several grow down the road you may or may not want to change. That's all down to you.
At the end of the day I have had many many grows under hps and have great quality and yields.
These guys building DIY lights are pushing the quality and yields and efficiency to the limits and doing some amazing things. To give an idea, someone who used hps and was getting an average of 0.8 grams per watt is now getting 1.9 grams per watt using the same space and growing methods. But the cost for someone starting to grow is high.
I will be joining the league of exceptional lighting brigade myself soon enough. But all in all you will do great things with the set up you have and will be very happy with the results, I promise!
And just a point on Canna A+B, yeah you can use jacks, yeah you can even make your own at a fraction of the cost,but at the end of the day how much is a 5ltr bottle of A+B in comparison to the amount of runs you will get from those bottles.. especially if your hitting a pound a run in a 4x4... Its nothing. If you grow 4 warehouses full then yeah every penny on nutrients adds up but if its a pound or two here and there canna is reliable and simple and not expensive. Not that I would knock anyone wanting to save a buck!
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mauricem00
Well-Known Member
a dispensary up here switched from HIDs to high end leds. they saw no increase in yield but a substantial decrease in cooling cost for a large commercial grow. the best leds have a hard time competing with HIDs and when experienced growers are pulling 1gpw with HIDs I find it difficult to believe that LEDs would be doing that much better.that industry has been plagued with exaggerated claims for the beginning. different lights do require different growing styles.and people that don't know how to grow with HIDs may get lucky with LEDs but I find it hard to believe that an expensive light can make that much difference.there have been dramatic improvements in HIDs and fluorescent in the past few years. the new CMH bulbs have a great spectrum and come very close to matching the mccree curve. of course if I spent $2000 to replace a $200 dollars light.I would rather claim that I made a good choice then admit that I could have done just as well with a cheaper light if I had just learned how to grow
Indefinately
Well-Known Member
In the last minute of the video, he says that he got about two pounds from 1200 watt HPS and 4 pounds from 1200 watt LEDs.....
I sort of can't believe it to be honest.
That's crazy
Indefinately
" Let there be Green 2016 "
BM9AGS
Well-Known Member
They're are many growers using led to get over 1.5 gpw on this forum. That's from users not salesmen.
Look at this PPFD chart comparing led to hid made by me based off real PPFD readings not sales pitches.
mauricem00
Well-Known Member
seems like led growers may have something in common with fishermen I've done 3 comparison grows with LEDs and was not impressed
I've done 3 comparison grows with LEDs and was not impressed
BM9AGS
Well-Known Member
With what LEDs? If you used something 5watt epiled then you have to realize those LEDs are similar efficiency to hid. They're not good led. All the shit China LEDs use those. So you get shit. So unless you're specifically referring toCree cxb 3590 then that's like using fluorescent.seems like led growers may have something in common with fishermen
Show me what LEDs you're referencing
Indefinately
Well-Known Member
Do you have a link to the light your referring to mate?
I look at things fairly logically.
If LEDs did give better yield and reduced power usage with the advantage of less cooling required due to there lower heat production.
Why wouldn't large commercial growers be using LEDs. Only "home" grows tend to use them.
I have never really educated my self about LEDs, might be time to do some reading.
Indefinately
" Let there be Green 2016 "
BM9AGS
Well-Known Member
Ahh I see you had a Mars hydro (3-5w epiled shit) and VERO 18s(30 something % efficient) in your posts. So you're referencing LEDs that are similar to hid or worse. I too would be led jaded if I spent my money on junk. You can't compare those LEDs to 50 w cxb 3590. They're better LEDs too now my LEDs are not top anymore.seems like led growers may have something in common with fishermen
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BM9AGS
Well-Known Member
It's starting to take off commercially. Before the big led companies weren't targeting horticulture especially MMJ but as things evolve it's gaining traction. The first led companies out using larger cobs (not the 5w diode crap) were not certified so legal grows could not use them because of building code. Now business is quickly catching up.
The hid par chart is from the well known hid PPFD chart that you can quickly Google.
The chart for the Cree cxb3590 is based off many forum members personal par readings using professional par meters.
The 5'x5' light is a diy I made using 4 of timber grow lights 200w diy kits. It's super simple. I have a 5x5' room and I'll start a grow log when my seedlings are bigger but I have 8' ceilings and with pots and light mount and needed distance I should have about 9 plants in a 5x5 that I cal allow to flower up to 5' tall.
As for Mars hydro and all they're Chinese led brothers I'm clueless why they're isn't a class action law suit against all of them with they're bogus claims. I believe one of the led guys said they're LEDs are %30 efficient.
mauricem00
Well-Known Member
my first grow was with a mars hydro. my second use cree 3070 3000k ab bin at 700ma and my third use vero 18 4000k at 700ma. the strain was feminized super silver haze grown in peet moss, perlite and compost.did not try 3590s at 1000ma but I had already wasted too much money on LEDs
BM9AGS
Well-Known Member
So you had cxa3070 (old gen) and what was the grow space? Or do you know the PPFD?
The 16 cxb 3590 in a 5x5 are at 1400ma so 50 watts each cob. 800watts in a 5x5. So I should kill it. But I don't expect professional gpw because it'll be my 3rd grow. I'd be super happy with 1.3gpw which should be doable unless my strains suck.
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