Atheism

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zKnOcK0uTz

Member
Padawan, I firmly believe what you have written about in this forum. Here is my opinion. I am not an athiest, I am part of the catholic church. Right now i feel as if everything i learned in catholic school about God and all that is right. In this world, there are 2 types of people, followers and leaders. A follower's interpretation of the things said in the bible, or in religion class is different than a leaders interpretation. Bob marley stated that God is not a spirit from above, he is a living man. Understanding this statement is the first step to truely understanding the purpose of religion.
 
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PadawanBater

Guest
zKnOcK0uTz said:
Padawan, I firmly believe what you have written about in this forum. Here is my opinion. I am not an athiest, I am part of the catholic church. Right now i feel as if everything i learned in catholic school about God and all that is right. In this world, there are 2 types of people, followers and leaders. A follower's interpretation of the things said in the bible, or in religion class is different than a leaders interpretation. Bob marley stated that God is not a spirit from above, he is a living man. Understanding this statement is the first step to truely understanding the purpose of religion.
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Hey zKnOcK0uTz, thanks for your comment.

What makes you believe Catholicism is correct? What evidence have you seen to support the validity of it?
 
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PadawanBater

Guest
Babs34 said:
Well now, if that just isn't a straight shot of truth, I just don't know what is.
:mrgreen::sleep::lol: :roll::rolleyes:...How could one even posibly question the non-existence of God after having viewed "this?" :lol:
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And yet you didn't even attempt to refute any of it.

Your absence of substance speaks volumes, again. :hug:
 
Babs34

Babs34

Well-Known Member
PadawanBater said:
And yet you didn't even attempt to refute any of it.

Your absence of substance speaks volumes, again. :hug:
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"Blah.....blah, blah, ba blah. :blsmoke:
It was just that damn boring......not worthy of adding substance to, yanno? There was really nothing to "take" from viewing it.
:hug::hug::hug:
 
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PadawanBater

Guest
Babs34 said:
"Blah.....blah, blah, ba blah. :blsmoke:
It was just that damn boring......not worthy of adding substance to, yanno? There was really nothing to "take" from viewing it.
:hug::hug::hug:
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It was 3 minutes. You can't sit through 3 minutes of video?

Here, I'll lay it all out in text for you instead...

-how could God be certain of his own omniscience?

(excluding responses like "it's possible for God to know he's omniscient because he is omniscient")

-a. if God is truly omniscient...
then God would think that he is omniscient
-b. if God is mistaken in his omniscience...
then God would still think that he is omniscient

Both scenarios lead to the same conclusion, therefore it is impossible for God to know with absolute certainty which premise he is working from, a or b.

To put it more formally;

1. If God exists, he knows the truth-value of all propositions with certainty
2. To know all propositions with absolute certainty, God must know with absolutey certainty that proposition "God is not mistaken" is true
3. If God is mistaken, he would not know that he is mistaken

Conclusion;

God cannot know the truth-value of the proposition "God is not mistaken" with absolute certainty

and so, if you take this farther and if you apply the omniscience character trait to your God, then God cannot exist.

I'll be awaiting your reply.
 
Babs34

Babs34

Well-Known Member
PadawanBater said:
It was 3 minutes. You can't sit through 3 minutes of video?

Here, I'll lay it all out in text for you instead...

-how could God be certain of his own omniscience?

(excluding responses like "it's possible for God to know he's omniscient because he is omniscient")

-a. if God is truly omniscient...
then God would think that he is omniscient
-b. if God is mistaken in his omniscience...
then God would still think that he is omniscient

Both scenarios lead to the same conclusion, therefore it is impossible for God to know with absolute certainty which premise he is working from, a or b.

To put it more formally;

1. If God exists, he knows the truth-value of all propositions with certainty
2. To know all propositions with absolute certainty, God must know with absolutey certainty that proposition "God is not mistaken" is true
3. If God is mistaken, he would not know that he is mistaken

Conclusion;

God cannot know the truth-value of the proposition "God is not mistaken" with absolute certainty

and so, if you take this farther and if you apply the omniscience character trait to your God, then God cannot exist.

I'll be awaiting your reply.
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Tipsy and a few breaths away from deep sleep
---1) True, He does. No mistakes involved.
---2) Circular reasoning? God only proves Himself to those who FIRST have faith even as small as the mustard seed. (Metaphor, mind you)
---3) Huh? :?
Numerous fight that sown seed with all their might.
"If" He is mistaken? God made no mistakes---intentionally known as mistakes, mishaps, or otherwise havoc as known to mankind. We created it all Padawan...yeap, ALL of it. Free will has a price. :shock:.....imagine that.
 
CrackerJax

CrackerJax

New Member
The Bible starts out with a lie in sophistry from the get go.

Let's break it down real quick, because it should already be obvious to any who have actually THOUGHT about it.

Genesis.... Garden of Eden.... all this is yours.... blah blah blah..... paradise .... blah blah blah.... just don't eat from this one tree.... blah blah blah ..... Ooops... you ate it.... ur screwed..... blah blah blah....

Right? that's the Garden of Eden for dummies version.... K? That's pretty much how the story goes...


G*D is not confined by the time space continuum.... okay....got it.

G*D is all knowing...cannot be fooled or deceived...okay....got it.

Here's the BIG LIE....

G*D was lying when he told ADAM & EVE that they could live in paradise. G*D already knew they would fail that test. G*D knew they were doomed to misery.... and yet he lies to them right up front.

G*D waves the ILLUSION that they may live in a paradise, already knowing they will not.

And that's why the Bible isn't the word of G*D..... just made up....and not made up very well either.
 
shnkrmn

shnkrmn

Well-Known Member
I guess god wouldn't make a very ethical humanist. . . Most of its actions in the bible seem to be motivated by excessive self-regard, a very human condition.
 
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PadawanBater

Guest
Babs34 said:
Tipsy and a few breaths away from deep sleep
---1) True, He does. No mistakes involved.
---2) Circular reasoning? God only proves Himself to those who FIRST have faith even as small as the mustard seed. (Metaphor, mind you)
---3) Huh? :?
Numerous fight that sown seed with all their might.
"If" He is mistaken? God made no mistakes---intentionally known as mistakes, mishaps, or otherwise havoc as known to mankind. We created it all Padawan...yeap, ALL of it. Free will has a price. :shock:.....imagine that.
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...you did exactly what I said NOT to do.

"EXCLUDING responses like "it's possible for God to know he's omniscient because he's omniscient"

THAT is circular logic.

2. God only proves himself to those who first have faith?

-he's the one that dishes out the faith, is he not? Why would he create some people more susceptible to having faith and some less? (why have faith involved in belief at all? God is also the one who makes up the rules of logic, is he not? So why even bring what we define as 'faith' into it at all?)

3. Refer to the a./b. scenario I laid out earlier.

If God reaches the same conclusion either way, that is - he believes he is omniscient, whether he is in fact omniscient or is not, it does not affect the actual outcome of reality, so there is no way, even for God, to know if he is actually omniscient, or if he only believes he is.

The rules of logic do not permit omniscience, therefore, if your God requires this character trait, your god cannot exist.

Pretty simple right? :shock:
 
Katatawnic

Katatawnic

Well-Known Member
Night before last, hubby brings home a Valentine's Day "goodie bag" a coworker had made and "relinquishes" it to me. (He rarely eats candy, so being full of chocolate, it was immediately mine. lol) So late into the evening I cheerfully reach into the bag to have a chocolate reward, and pull out a little scroll. It's a "dear friend" letter, much like you'd find in the "forward this to 100 friends" chain emails, and it of course was boring as hell. Getting impatient, I finally skip all the droning and just look at the "signature" at the bottom of the scroll, which says...

"Your friend, Jesus"

There are several more papers in the bag, pink and folded prettily. I already knew what they'd contain... sure enough, quotes from the Bible printed on each and every one of them!

WTF?! :shock: This isn't Christmas or Easter! It's Valentine's Day! The last thing in the world I want is to get a "love letter" from Jesus for the one day of the year that is meant for celebrating romantic love!

I show the utmost respect to my family and friends RE: their religious beliefs. So long as others' religion doesn't directly affect me, I'm beyond tolerant; which is much more than can be said of the treatment I've received for not believing what others want me to believe along with them. I do NOT walk up to people and start in on them about religion and tell them why they shouldn't believe what they do (including in forum threads such as this one, as anyone who's read my posts can verify), so why do so many religious people feel it's their right to do it to me? Is it really too much to ask others not to spoil a 100% non-religious holiday with a "love letter" from Jesus and Bible quotes mixed in with heart-shaped chocolates?

Talk about literally shoving religion down one's throat! :spew:

I was so turned off by this, I literally had no more desire for that chocolate... and I was in the middle of a munchies attack, mind you! :lol:
 
undertheice

undertheice

Well-Known Member
Katatawnic said:
Talk about literally shoving religion down one's throat!
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as atheists, you and i may see this as shoving religion down our throats, but take a moment to look at it from someone else's point of view. what the nonbeliever may see as an intrusion, the believer may see as merely sharing one of their most precious gifts, the joyous love of their god. on a day dedicated to love, what could be more appropriate?
 
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