Anyone doing over 3lb / 4x4 using LED's?

Prawn Connery said:

All I'm saying is that they sell what sells, not necessarily what's best. The market determines where the profits are, and - like all new technologies - markets often lag. How many typewriters were sold in the early days of the home computer? Who the fuck buys typewriters these days? Long before the Vic 20 and the Commodore 64, techies were building their own computers in their garages - just like Wozniak and Jobs.

LEDs are the future. Walk into any hardware store or drive down any street and it is LEDs that now shine from warehouse roofs and street corners - not HIDs (unless you live somewhere undeveloped). They're already in people's homes and businesses. Because they are efficient. And they work. And they are only getting cheaper and better.

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When something revolutionary comes out it flies off the shelf.

Really? I've noticed the opposite: you have to convince people first that something is "revolutionary" before they all want to buy it. Otherwise, how do they know it's "revolutionary"?!? It took a long time for guns to replace swords on the battlefield, or cars to replace horses on the road, but that's only because - like most "revolutionary" technologies - they had to develop first to the point where they became practical and mainstream by consistently outperforming older technologies..

The fact most warehouse fruit and veg growers are using LEDs on a huge scale - much larger than closet dope growers or even cash croppers - tells me they have already factored yields into their production (energy) costs and "seen the light", if you'll pardon the pun.

I also find it interesting that it's not LED growers who are bringing up the LED vs HID argument - it's HID growers! Why is that? Could it be because successful LED growers don't need to be convinced any more?

Yodaweed said:

They sell California light works junk here at the local hydro shops in colorado, they literally know nothing about LEDs or care to, biggest sellers seem to be CMH/DE hps.

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BTW, CMH and DE are not revolutionary - they've been around for ages. We were talking about them maybe 15 years ago on Overgrow.com - it's taken at least that long for people to adapt. It took a long time for people to switch to digital ballasts, too.

Prawn Connery said:

BTW, CMH and DE are not revolutionary - they've been around for ages. We were talking about them maybe 15 years ago on Overgrow.com - it's taken at least that long for people to adapt. It took a long time for people to switch to digital ballasts, too.

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also neither has really gotten any more efficient in that time (aside from the use of square wave ballasts that you alluded to)

CobKits said:

also neither has really gotten any more efficient in that time (aside from the use of square wave ballasts that you alluded to)

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what about DE and DE CMH, also what about the continued evolution of horticulture specific HID bulbs....i think HID tech has evolved.....so has LEDs but honestly LEDs are not worth upgrading if you are using quality CMH/HID fixtures you will not get a return on investment for years unless you are an changing bulbs every single run and live in like Hawaii with the most expensive electric prices.

Prawn Connery said:

Really? I've noticed the opposite: you have to convince people first that something is "revolutionary" before they all want to buy it. Otherwise, how do they know it's "revolutionary"?!? It took a long time for guns to replace swords on the battlefield, or cars to replace horses on the road, but that's only because - like most "revolutionary" technologies - they had to develop first to the point where they became practical and mainstream by consistently outperforming older technologies..

The fact most warehouse fruit and veg growers are using LEDs on a huge scale - much larger than closet dope growers or even cash croppers - tells me they have already factored yields into their production (energy) costs and "seen the light", if you'll pardon the pun.

I also find it interesting that it's not LED growers who are bringing up the LED vs HID argument - it's HID growers! Why is that? Could it be because successful LED growers don't need to be convinced any more?

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I am not really a HID grower broski, i am just a grower, i use all types of lighting i even grow outside (weed is legal here) , my first grow i used a CFL light, i have used T5's , HPS, Metal Halide, CMH, LEDs (have several popular types) have you tested all the different types of lighting before making a decision?

Why are you guys arguing with pure stupidity?

Yodaweed said:

I am not really a HID grower broski, i am just a grower, i use all types of lighting i even grow outside (weed is legal here) , my first grow i used a CFL light, i have used T5's , HPS, Metal Halide, CMH, LEDs (have several popular types) have you tested all the different types of lighting before making a decision?

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I've been growing indoors and out for close to 35 years. MH, HPS (vertical/horizontal, digital/magnetic, DE), CFL, T12s, T8s, T5s - hell, I even tried growing with 150W halogens when I was young and silly! I consistently pulled 3.5+lb from my 1200w vertical grows in a 4'x4'x6' space (go back and have a look at Page 2 of this thread) before I switched to LED.

Have I tried everything? Not CMH. Not plasma. Er, can't think of anything else . . . I've smoked a lot of weed in those 35 years, lol!

All I know is LEDs have not only surprised me, I'll never go back to HIDs again. I'm in the process of trying to convert a commercial friend who is currently running 9x 600w HPS lamps in 9x 3'x3' stations and is trialing the two 400W LED frames I built for him and also posted in this thread. He's been growing large-scale indoors longer than I have. If I can convince him, I can convince anyone.

10 years ago we trialed LEDs (UFOs) and the results were poor, so call him skeptical. But in two weeks time, the new numbers will be in and - if all goes to plan - we will soon be replacing another 3600W of HPS with 2400W of LED (for a total of 4800W of HPS replaced with 3200W of LED). We'll see.

leoshitz said:

Why are you guys arguing with pure stupidity?

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There's nothing wrong with healthy skepticism.

But life's a lot easier with an open mind . . .

Hi! Always the same old HPS vs LED fight!!! It was the same a few years ago and I was thinking that it was now clear that efficient LED pulls more gpw then any HID!!! Especially for newbies! I never saw anyone pull 1 gpw or more for his first grow under HID!
I guess the only growers who pull the same gpw with HID and LED should be the one who grow tall plants(more than 3 foot)because led have less penetration than a 1000w de! With led you grow more surface with the same watt...!!!
So I would say if you want tall plants and long vegg (I never used a 1000w but it should be 40 inches away from the plant and it is effective on 40 inches) use HID and if you want shorter vegg and shorter plants (I believe my cxb3590 @1400mA so 50w max are efficient on 18 inches maybe 20 max so I cover all the space with tops) go LED!
I grow plants horizontally asap under a solid screen I fill this 4x4 screen(piece of fence) in 6 weeks with 4 plants in 10g when it is full you shave everything under the screen and you let the top grow for the 2 remaining week then it is ready to replace their sisters...i did this with HID for a long time but I never pulled more than 0.8gpw when I switched to led I was able to pull 1.3/1.4gpw (even 1.5gpw once) maybe this kind of light suit more to my growing technique because I didn't change anything else!
I have to admit that I wait for a grow log made by a legit grower with 200lm/w led(I know lm/w is not the best scale but 200lm/w are 200lm/w!!!) hydroponics system CO2 controlled environment and clones elite(plants he already know the final weights with other lights!)on the same surface with the same watt(I am not sure about the result if he have to use the same watt on the same surface!)
Have a lifted one and lots of good vibes from France growers

littlejacob said:

Hi! Always the same old HPS vs LED fight!!! It was the same a few years ago and I was thinking that it was now clear that efficient LED pulls more gpw then any HID!!! Especially for newbies! I never saw anyone pull 1 gpw or more for his first grow under HID!

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Sure LED's are great but come on.
Newbies getting 1 gpw on their 1st grow because they used LED vs HID?
Is that something that the LED guys agree with?
Newbies getting 1 gpw with LED.
I find it hard to believe.
Takes a lot of practice to dial in a grow with any light.
Most newbie's are just grateful to make it to harvest IMO.

I thought the cmh growing craze started at icmag using the Phillips 400w retrowhite 9 yrs ago? Hps mag ballast only (seperate hor/vert positioning bulb)if i remember correctly..

Saw some apparatus on the web, that allows you to run 1000w DE hps bulbs vertically now, epic.....2100 umol/s omnidirectional goodness on the cheap. Leds are better, but it will cost you; )

nxsov180db said:

That's actually not true. If you have led's over say a 4x4 that put out the same amount of light as a 1000w de the led will actually penetrate better due to many light sources vs 1. More even coverage and less shadows bellow.

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Hi! Maybe it will but there will be too many watt for a 4x4...if you use efficient led!
About newbie pulling 1gpw go watch some grow log and you will see! Lower temps under led help a lot! I do not say all the newbies but I know one at least here on RIU!
Have a lifted one

3x2 grow, cxm 22 cobs...1400ma 12 weeks of flower. 1lb King Tut and Blueberry. There are a shit load of colas. I couldn’t believe it, I’m not that good of a grower... these were clones from a previous harvest so I had an idea of what each strain wanted. I think there were 9 plants in all. Nobody has to believe me..... no pics of anything can prove it and I know that. But it was a damn good grow for ole GoGo

Go go n chill said:

3x2 grow, cxm 22 cobs...1400ma 12 weeks of flower. 1lb King Tut and Blueberry. There are a shit load of colas. I couldn’t believe it, I’m not that good of a grower... these were clones from a previous harvest so I had an idea of what each strain wanted. I think there were 9 plants in all. Nobody has to believe me..... no pics of anything can prove it and I know that. But it was a damn good grow for ole GoGoView attachment 4188889

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I believe you.
You are a better grower than you are giving yourself credit for.
That is kind of nice with all the arrogance around here lol.
It's because you took the quick road learning not to overwater isn't it.
At least that's my guess.

Kushash said:

I believe you.
You are a better grower than you are giving yourself credit for.
That is kind of nice with all the arrogance around here lol.
It's because you took the quick road learning not to overwater isn't it.
At least that's my guess.

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IMO face hurts I’m smiling so big. We preach what we’ve learned the hard way right? No matter how much you read or are preached to a new grower is going to over water and over fert their girls.... true? I’m merely keeping my girls alive. There’s some really knowledgeable peeps here that have guided me and smacked me when I needed it. Shit I just lost a bunch of seeds but that’s another story

Go go n chill said:

IMO face hurts I’m smiling so big. We preach what we’ve learned the hard way right? No matter how much you read or are preached to a new grower is going to over water and over fert their girls.... true? I’m merely keeping my girls alive. There’s some really knowledgeable peeps here that have guided me and smacked me when I needed it. Shit I just lost a bunch of seeds but that’s another story

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I dunno, I did so much reading ahead of my first, I was scared to water! Under Watered until I got set straight by the plants wilting. I'm no till now under brideglux stripsand things are a lot more forgiving.

INF Flux said:

I dunno, I did so much reading ahead of my first, I was scared to water! Under Watered until I got set straight by the plants wilting. I'm no till now under brideglux stripsand things are a lot more forgiving.View attachment 4188923

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Smarter than me, my girls were like kelp.
I won’t be building another fixture for awhile, need to recoup some funds from everything else. Love my cobs 300w of whoop ass

Go go n chill said:

Smarter than me, my girls were like kelp.
I won’t be building another fixture for awhile, need to recoup some funds from everything else. Love my cobs 300w of whoop ass

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Maybe better than straw? And, I seem to be addicted to building now. Currently planning a very small one to go over a lemon tree in my living room. It'll replace the current plain light stand for the room an I'm thinking a stained glass looking shade from colored epoxy or maybe a colorful fabric. Cobs might be cool for that and I haven't played with them yet. Just QB's and strips.

INF Flux said:

Maybe better than straw? And, I seem to be addicted to building now. Currently planning a very small one to go over a lemon tree in my living room. It'll replace the current plain light stand for the room an I'm thinking a stained glass looking shade from colored epoxy or maybe a colorful fabric. Cobs might be cool for that and I haven't played with them yet. Just QB's and strips.

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Good stuff, fun projects. I’ll build another just not real soon