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And now... Third outdoor grow early start:

Discussion in 'Oregon Patients' started by stsin, Jan 26, 2016.

  1.  
    stsin

    stsin Active Member

    So far it looks like I'll have ~7 good examples to play with this year still giving the questionable plants a bit of time to surprise me. So far there seems to be 2 "BB#3" (from "Anesia", not holding my breath they're BBs.), 2 criminal+, 2 Jackberry x Shackzilla, and 1 Mad Kush. They've just moved into the tent from the closet and I'll replant these in the ~2gallon square pots that they'll (hopefully) stay in until I move them outside. Planning on cropping a bit as we go since they'll be vegging for so bloody long. Hopefully each one will give ~2 lbs when all is said and done come October/November and perhaps that will make me content enough to take a few seasons off.

    This time around I'm not doing a test run so am planning to veg these in a small (4' x 4' x 6.5') until daylight outside hits 14 hrs (I don't want to do supplemental light this year around since I'm changing the covering and rain is slightly problematic with lamps.) We'll see if giving them just 14 hrs of 420w of t8 light slows down veg enough to not TOO terribly overgrow the closet. I'll be taking clones along the way so I have backups if I end up having to put them out too early / so I can reset growth if need be.

    I'll work on the outdoor grow area once the ground is thawed out around early march. Going to be very liberal with my application of hardware cloth to discourage rippers and ponder other security options. Fun times ahead!
     

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    Organja likes this.
  2.  
    stsin

    stsin Active Member

    Damn, I made the mistake of going to oregon green seed and apparently they sell a colorado bruce banner #3 cross by greenpoint seeds called The Deputy (Bruce Banner #3 x Star Dawg). So apparently I'm going to be hatching some more beans AND these beans will need to be sexed. grrrrr. I really prefer to not sex if I'm not breeding, but apparently I'll need to either put together another tent, or do the old: take a clone, then immediately root it and flower it test in the cloning area. Ponders ponders...

    Either way, heads up all, there's a bruce banner #3 cross available from an oregon seed company. WOOT?
     
  3.  
    stsin

    stsin Active Member

    I made the mistake of smoking some of my cured Sugar Punch, now I'm also pondering popping one of the two remaining SP beans. I really need to get out into the side yard and do some measuring....
     
  4.  
    Humanrob

    Humanrob Well-Known Member

    Interesting. I'm going in the other direction. My ultimate goal is to finish early above all else, and having just one patient and doing indoor as well as outdoor, I do not need a huge harvest -- I need a minimum of a pound a year, sounded like a huge amount when I started but is actually pretty easily attainable. So smaller plants wrapping up before October would be optimal.

    I don't want to put lights out in my yard to extend days, since I live on a busy street in a residential neighborhood and I don't want to draw the attention. And I'm not going to commit to light deprivation/covering, since I can't be sure I can be here twice a day at the same times through July.

    So I think I'm going to try an experiment with two plants. I'm going to veg them indoors at 18/6 during May, and then for two or three weeks of June run them at 20/4. Hopefully when I bring them outside the more drastic light change will cause them to flip directly into flower. I'm still fine tuning the plan, but that's the basic idea. Those two will go into 20 gallon pots. Since size is not a big issue, if I can get even a 1/4lb. of colas from each I'll call it good.

    I'll actually start four in May inside. The other two I'll put directly into the ground June 1st, and just let them do their thing. I was just telling a friend that indoor and outdoor have different learning curves in terms of time. I've now been growing for a year (feels like a lot more!). In that time, I've done four indoor runs and one outdoor -- so I've had four chances to screw up and learn inside, but my outside experiments only come once a year.

    My patient prefers sativas and sativa dominant hybrids, but I'm going to throw some Indica hybrids in too this year (in the end, she really just likes to get high ;) ). Of the four I mentioned, I'd like two to be more Indica and two to be more Sativa. If we have a really wet fall, at least the Indicas will finish faster. In my indoor right now I have an Oregon Diesel (indica dominant/8 weeks flower) and a Sour Diesel (sativa dominant/11 weeks flower) -- that's a pretty big spread!

    Oh... sorry to ramble, one other thing -- I don't know if you remember last year I had a problem with not enough light at the end of the season as the sun dipped below the trees to the south of us. We took down a tree! I'll have significantly more light to work with this year. :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2016
  5.  
    stsin

    stsin Active Member

    Hmmmm, I like your plan, but you're going to be putting them out in ~16 hours of light, I'm not sure that even with the fast four hour light change that will cause them to jump into flowering (depends on the type really) You might have better luck jumping out early instead of late after training them (though that requires them to be ready to go outside early). That way you'd get (the possibility) of an early harvest of the tops around june, and 3-5 months later a decent harvest of the rest of the plant.. Another option (which also helps with the rain) is to do a hoop house style covering and manually cover it with burlap or the like to cut down on light hours. But this method is a major pain in the ass (though with how little you're hoping to get, your plants could be short enough that you could do this without heavy equipment.

    Really, if I were growing on that side of the cascades, I'd totally keep my diffusing greenhouse cover installed as opposed to my current plan of covering only the half away from the house to shield the view and still allow all of the plants to grow above 11ft,. (as thankfully I live in a land where rain is more theoretical than a sign that summer is ending, but live in a neighborhood)


    *VERY* interested to see how it goes for you. (and I'd love a smoke report on the two diesels if they end well :) )
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2016
  6.  
    Humanrob

    Humanrob Well-Known Member

    I'll definitely be doing hoop houses at the end of the season. The rest is still just conceptual... I've got lots of time to figure it out. I haven't looked at the chart recently, but even if it is 16 hours of daylight, where I live that will be around 8+/- hours of direct sunlight. So going from 20 hours of blazing COB lights to 16 hours of "daylight" and far less direct light, combined with the cool nights of being outside, might induce some flowering. We'll see.

    My current run will go through April (unless I decide to ditch the Sour D... 11+ weeks to flower?!?!), so I won't have space to start the outdoor ones until the beginning of May anyway. No early starts this year.
     
  7.  
    stsin

    stsin Active Member

    Have now repotted the girls into their (hopefully) final indoor pots. All 7 seem to be doing fine under the 440W of flor. Just waiting to add a handful of Bruce crosses to the mix to decide on which (up to) 10 make it outside.
     

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  8.  
    stsin

    stsin Active Member

    Nearing the point where I need to decide if I want to top the girls for multi colas or just decide to let them go all natural like. This time around I might let them go naturally as it's always hard for me to cut/tear the plants, I really can't quite decide as my test of massively topped vs all natural was fucked up by the great rip of 2015... I'll have to survey the outdoor growers to get some more data points :)
     

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  9.  
    Humanrob

    Humanrob Well-Known Member

    How's the grow coming along?

    I just put some seeds into Rapid Rooter cubes, doing an intentional late start to the season this year. It's funny, I reread what I wrote here back in February, some of my plans have changed. They probably will a few more times before this all shakes out.

    I noticed you (might?) have some BB#3 you are prepping for your outdoor? I have a teen right now, in about two weeks when the space opens up I'll move it into my tent, and it will finish as an indoor. But, I was thinking of taking some clones from it and running them outside. I have no idea how Bruce will due with a wet NW fall, but I might find out.

    Hope things are going well for you --

    Edit: been bouncing around scanning the threads here, and I noticed that you mentioned you have some height issues with your grow. Have you tried an outdoor scrog? If you have the horizontal space to let them grow wide and low, that can work very well. I found it can have its own issues with access -- like for trimming or spraying -- when the plants get to be so wide that there is no way to reach all the way to the center... but everything has its challenges and most things can be overcome.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2016
  10.  
    stsin

    stsin Active Member

    Wow, I really am crap at updating these diaries...

    I've redone the "roof" and design of my southern exposure planting spot and my area to grow is now 7 ft wide x 22 ft long x 12ft tall*.

    *The roof is (in theory ATM) only covering (at most) 1/2 of the length's width of the plot (and half of that width) to block the public view, the other half+ is uncovered so could in theory support much taller plants, but considering these girls haven't been vegging for as long, I don't think they'll make use of more than 12ft. So I think I'm good for height this time around.

    At the moment I have the following I need to whittle down to 10 (most are 2ft)

    (2) purportedly bb #3 ( I like how they smell but not sure I trust that they are what they claim to be, I have a third backup if need be)

    (1) the deputy (bb#3 x star dawg) should be awesome considering my affection for chemdawg and it's def a bb#3 relation.

    (2) criminal+ (one went too far into flower so was moved outside a few weeks early, it should finish before the three babies are considered for outside)

    (1) afghooie ( I've been looking for a good example of an Afghani since I started growing fingers crossed this is it)

    (2) jackberry x shack

    (1) mad kush (continuing my search for a kush I don't get immune to quickly)
    And the babies:
    (1) sannies jack
    (1) chocolate rain
    (1) only seed I've found in my last sannies jack grow (this will likely stay inside in veg unless I get too curious)

    So far everything but the babies should be ready for transplant towards the end of this month. Here's the inside veg tent ATM
     

    Attached Files:

    Humanrob likes this.
  11.  
    stsin

    stsin Active Member

    Honestly from what I've heard Bruce Banner number 3 will finish in a reasonable amount of time (well, the 8 week pheno anyways) so you might squeak by without having to cover it... however considering where you live it would be ideal if you could give it some cover at the end of blooming to prevent Bud rot. I'd recommend trying it and seeing since it's (purportedly) such a good smoke.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2016
    Humanrob likes this.
  12.  
    Humanrob

    Humanrob Well-Known Member

    I have a BB#3 (the teen I mentioned) that's been vegging for 5 weeks and will go one more before I can move it into its final pot, and she's a beast already. She'll veg for two more weeks after that to establish roots in the SIP res, and then I'll flip her to flower. Tonight I just took two clones from her, those will definitely go outside. I've heard good things about BB, I should cut the indoor crop mid-July, and the outdoor by no later than mid-October -- so I should have no shortage of Mr. Banner.

    I'm not sure if I mentioned, but about 1/3 of my plants are going in the ground, and the rest in containers of one form or another. My intention is to clear a space in my garage, and get one (or possibly two) inexpensive 600w HPS lights -- if fall comes hard and fast I would finish as many of the ones in containers as I can fit, under those lights. It's a loose plan... as always its bound to change. I lost entire plants last year to inexperience, bad planning, and bad weather. I'm making some changes this year.
     
    stsin likes this.
  13.  
    stsin

    stsin Active Member

    Sounds like a good plan, you *might* need to finish off the container ones sideways in the garage but that'll just be a fun wrench in your worst case scenario (the one up side about living in this part of Oregon is weather is by and large a non issue, knock wood!) Let us know what you think of bb, and if you like it, where you got it from ;)
     
    Humanrob likes this.
  14.  
    stsin

    stsin Active Member

    Wow, apparently I can't count (and doing supplimental lighting last year REALLY through off my calculations.) I was all gung ho about putting the girls in the dirt at the end of this month, but forgot that I had to raise the lights on period inside from 14 hrs to 15 hrs due to an annoying amount of flowering, so unless I want to risk pushing them into flower early, I have to wait until late may to plant outside (when there's 15 hrs of light). Groph. That means another month+ of veg inside (so might be worth taking a few more clones to bush them out more) and I might need to toss an air conditioner into the room the tent is in I guess since it's going to be a warm spring/summer this year (bloody desert). Oh well, first world problems surely ;) And on the bright side, that means I don't have to put the sheeting up this weekend after all :) :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2016
  15.  
    Humanrob

    Humanrob Well-Known Member

    @stsin , do you run your lights at night or during the day? And what kind of lights are the indoor girls under? That extra month of veg is going to make them *monsters* by August!

    It's been a pretty intense test of discipline to wait, but I did it this year. April 15th (yesterday) I cut new clones and dropped my seeds into Rapid Rooters. Last year by this time I was putting girls in the ground that had vegged for a month or more. None went into flower, although last year this time the nights were so cool that it seemed to slow them down a lot. I had put some from the same group inside and out, and the inside ones bulked up while the outside ones just kind of hung in there, paler and with fewer new leaves.

    Seems like we're fine tuning and learning as we go. Should be a great summer grow season!
     
  16.  
    stsin

    stsin Active Member

    To make the (eventual) transition easier I run the 440w t8 during the day for (now) 15 hrs a day. Originally I was shooting for an in the ground date of April 25 without supplemental light so started them from seed on 14hrs of light. End result was too many slipping into flowering early this month so I was forced to add the extra hour. I assume putting them in the ground at 14 could cause the flowering to kick back in so I've got to wait another month or move the t8 back outside to supplement up to 15 (which I'm trying desperately not to do).

    Since I am prolonging the indoor veg at the next watering I'm going to top the largest ones to make emergency backup clones (and apparently there's my answer on to crop or not ;) ). Honestly not sure how big they'll end up being. Last year they were all in the ground in March with supplemental light until may and they were the largest plants I've ever seen in person ( necessitating the raising of the roof this year)
    You've got it man it's a constant learning environment when you tweak things. It's the "fun" part of growing, if nothing else it teaches us not to try to control everything all the time. Well, it tries to anyways ;)
     
    Humanrob likes this.
  17.  
    stsin

    stsin Active Member

    I forgot to say (chatting with a friend who grows fully LED reminded me) If you're looking at grabbing one or two HPS lights, I'd say consider trying one of the new LED lights. I've heard good things about the apollo LEDs (I love their tents), though I *hate* that they call them X watt bulbs when they use like 1/2 the wattage as the X.... I don't care about equivalence I want to know the actual wattage (grumble grumble) Anyways, they're fairly cheap, and in theory last more than a few seasons. While they're not awesome for yields, apparently they make everything frosty as hell, if you're just finishing off a season that might actually be ideal. When I have a bit more coin I might do an LED experimental grow since my last try with them was back in the days of the original UFO, but if YOU did it, then I wouldn't have to ;)
     
  18.  
    Humanrob

    Humanrob Well-Known Member

    At this point my indoor is 100% COB/LED -- some I bought, some I DIY'd. I understand that there is a huge difference between cheap/low quality LEDs and good quality ones. I could be entirely off base, but my understanding is that HPS (not comparing regular to DE, but apples to apples) is more of a level playing field.

    On Amazon I can get a complete 600w set up (ballast, fixture, bulb) for around $150. I can't touch that with LEDs. Also, these would be going into an unheated detached garage in late September through maybe mid-October, so I would want the heat that HPS produces. So, that's my thinking on those. I'd hope that since I'd only run them for about 4-6 weeks at a time, I might get two or three seasons out of the bulbs?

    I've never run HPS. I started growing in small converted closets, so heat was an issue from day one and everyone told me they wouldn't work in that situation, so I've never even researched them. I know very little about them, mostly what I've picked up in HPS vs LED comparison threads.
     
    stsin likes this.
  19.  
    stsin

    stsin Active Member

    Woah, *NEVER*? That's amazing man, even in my micro grow (tiny 3 door ikea wardrobe, "big" side for flower, single side for veg) I still used HPS (I want to say 250W, this was in a fairly cool climate with summer highs in the low 80s (no a/c though) and I did fairly insane air exchange rates.). But yeah, HPS is very much a level playground, there are some differences, but really, they're not huge (and the biggest difference is in the bulb, so it might be worth getting the bulb separately and going for one of the better ones, and changing it out every grow cycle or two) If your garage isn't heated you're definitely going to want the heat of the HID to help things as it does get a dash chilly out west in the late fall (there would even be some argument if the garage is light proof, to flip the light pattern so you're providing heat during the night, but really doing that late into flower could be problematic so on really cold nights it might just be worth getting a cheap heater... But with luck you won't need to bring the girls inside :)

    I'm still waiting for plasma grow lights to be reasonable but I'm not holding my breath on that happening in my lifetime, but perhaps the mass legalization will help that technology along...
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2016
  20.  
    Humanrob

    Humanrob Well-Known Member

    I started with CFLs, only did one run with them. I had 440 watts of 23w and 40w bulbs mounted to a board suspended 2-3 inches over a scrog... I've done a half dozen grows since, but never one frostier or tastier. There was a lot of 'beginners luck', but that's what got me on this path. The CFLs were too hot, and I went to cheap LEDs, then better COB units, then built my own. Never did the HPS thing.

    Hopefully I won't need to bring girls in at the end of the season... but I'm actually planning on it, at least for some of them. We harvested in waves last year, waiting about a week between passes. We did not have a single plant that did not get PM before we could get all the bud on it. I will say that in the first 2-3 passes we got more than we needed. But, I'd rather have smaller plants in pots that finish completely, than big plants in the ground where we're constantly looking for mold, bud rot, and PM, and then making judgement calls about how much we want harvest that can be eaten but not smoked. It was a time consuming and a pain in the ass.

    Also, as I'm sure I've mentioned, I live in a wind tunnel and its calm all summer but come fall and winter it is unpredictable and can be intense. Sustained 30+mph winds with gusts to 50mph are to be expected. That will take down a plant loaded with buds, or any structure that you make to protect it that is not strong and aerodynamic. So, yeah, I plan to put some in the garage. :)

    That said, I never put all my eggs in one basket, and we will do some of each.

    And on that note, so far 8 out of 10 seeds I've got going have popped, I only need six so I should be good to go there. I've also got all my clones started, so if everything pulls through then I'm set for plants for this summer.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2016

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