An Atheist Goes to Bible Study
- Thread starter Padawanbater2
- Start date
Luger187
Well-Known Member
well said
Stark Raving
Active Member
Absence of evidence is evidence of absence. An atheist is simply someone who has looked at the evidence for god/allah/yaweh/whatever, or lack thereof, and chosen not to be a theist, based on the lack of evidence. Most theist evidence is based on circular logic (the most popular being that the bible is true because it says so right there in the bible!)
Check out thethinkingatheist.com. And if you happen by the forum there, stop in and say hello. I'm Stark Raving there as well.
Check out thethinkingatheist.com. And if you happen by the forum there, stop in and say hello. I'm Stark Raving there as well.
Kuji
Active Member
-Naminator
Exactly what is your Religion. Most people here who are refuting religion are probably thinking of the fundemental or at least conservative practice of christianity, and most christians DO believe in an eternal hell. There are some, such as universalists and anniahalationists(sp) that believe everyone is "saved" or those that aren't simply cease to exsist. Are you a Christian BTW? If so, what type/denomination. Also do you think genuinely good people who aren't Christian could be loved by God and have a favorable place in the afterlife?
Do you realize that many Christians would say you're doomed to eternal hell for preaching something that in their eyes is a serious form of Blasphemy(ie. no eternal punishment)
I agree with you that there is, in fact, God. I believe he or she or it is a God of Love, and I believe its message has been twisted and manipulated by man since the begining of time. I find it somewhat sad that just because someone believes in evolution (I do myself) they throw out the rest of the bible.The bible is NOT a science book and a great deal of trouble has resulted from people believing it as such.
I think professing to be an athiest is actually a pretty strong profession of faith. Saying you KNOW there's no God is pretty arrogant and ignorant in my view. Agnosticism seems far more reasonable.
Exactly what is your Religion. Most people here who are refuting religion are probably thinking of the fundemental or at least conservative practice of christianity, and most christians DO believe in an eternal hell. There are some, such as universalists and anniahalationists(sp) that believe everyone is "saved" or those that aren't simply cease to exsist. Are you a Christian BTW? If so, what type/denomination. Also do you think genuinely good people who aren't Christian could be loved by God and have a favorable place in the afterlife?
Do you realize that many Christians would say you're doomed to eternal hell for preaching something that in their eyes is a serious form of Blasphemy(ie. no eternal punishment)
I agree with you that there is, in fact, God. I believe he or she or it is a God of Love, and I believe its message has been twisted and manipulated by man since the begining of time. I find it somewhat sad that just because someone believes in evolution (I do myself) they throw out the rest of the bible.The bible is NOT a science book and a great deal of trouble has resulted from people believing it as such.
I think professing to be an athiest is actually a pretty strong profession of faith. Saying you KNOW there's no God is pretty arrogant and ignorant in my view. Agnosticism seems far more reasonable.
Stark Raving
Active Member
It's important that you understand terms before claiming someone is ignorant. Especially when the ignorance is on your part. (I am, BTW, using the word ignorance with it's proper meaning)
Atheism and agnostisism are two entirely different things. I am, technically, and agnostic atheist. Agnostic refers to knowledge, while atheist refers to belief.
Agnostic - "I don't know if god exists"
Atheist - "I don't believe god exists"
This automatic assumption that being an atheist is a claim of knowledge is extremely ignorant. It is making a claim about someone based on a title, when you don't even know what that title means.
Atheism and agnostisism are two entirely different things. I am, technically, and agnostic atheist. Agnostic refers to knowledge, while atheist refers to belief.
Agnostic - "I don't know if god exists"
Atheist - "I don't believe god exists"
This automatic assumption that being an atheist is a claim of knowledge is extremely ignorant. It is making a claim about someone based on a title, when you don't even know what that title means.
Shannon Alexander
Well-Known Member
As a free thinking Christian individual I would like to pose a question first before I say anything else... What makes more sense? that all the matter and energy of the whole entire universe was stored in an infinitesimally small point that existed out of nowhere and nothing that erupted and expanded to create everything... or that there is/was an entity that existed out of nowhere and nothing and decided to create everything..?
Really neither of those explanations are any more believable than the other.
Who is to say that the Big Bang and that God's creation of the universe are mutually exclusive concepts? who is to say that God/Gods did not start the big bang to create the existence of everything?
What makes you think that they are mutually exclusive?
It is only the ignorant believers and non believers that expect "God" or "Gods" to be all flowers and picnics... How could you possibly hold a God to the same standards that you would judge people by? do we not kill flies and mosquitoes, spiders and all manner of pest with little to no concern because they are smaller/weaker than us and inconvenience us? annoy us? get in our way? and we are all just physical beings living together on this earth of ours... Do you concern yourselves with the number of small insects you trod on, on your way to the corner store? I would quite confidently say not in the slightest.
So on the assumption that a god or gods did or do exist, as they are/would be so far removed from the mortal concerns that we do share with the many pests we kill in large numbers, why would they have to live up to your expectations of being nice and kind, caring benevolent creators, concerned with our own individual personal wellbeing..? the answer is they don't or wouldn't necessarily if he/she/they/it did/do exist.
Why is evolution such an issue? Evolution is fact, Cannabis is one great example of evolution and humans another one, as the great changes that are represented in their and our development over time. But then what is to say that evolution is not just an example of gods work? gods work in progress perhaps?
And people saying that there weren't any others evolved along side the modern humans need to stop being so ignorant and read a little, It will make you feel better I promise.
I don't profess to have all the answers and I never will, I don't push my religious views onto people and I don't discriminate or hate on people for their religion or lack thereof. Live and let live, peace to all, Believers and Non Believers alike. We're all in this together like it or not.
Really neither of those explanations are any more believable than the other.
Who is to say that the Big Bang and that God's creation of the universe are mutually exclusive concepts? who is to say that God/Gods did not start the big bang to create the existence of everything?
What makes you think that they are mutually exclusive?
It is only the ignorant believers and non believers that expect "God" or "Gods" to be all flowers and picnics... How could you possibly hold a God to the same standards that you would judge people by? do we not kill flies and mosquitoes, spiders and all manner of pest with little to no concern because they are smaller/weaker than us and inconvenience us? annoy us? get in our way? and we are all just physical beings living together on this earth of ours... Do you concern yourselves with the number of small insects you trod on, on your way to the corner store? I would quite confidently say not in the slightest.
So on the assumption that a god or gods did or do exist, as they are/would be so far removed from the mortal concerns that we do share with the many pests we kill in large numbers, why would they have to live up to your expectations of being nice and kind, caring benevolent creators, concerned with our own individual personal wellbeing..? the answer is they don't or wouldn't necessarily if he/she/they/it did/do exist.
Why is evolution such an issue? Evolution is fact, Cannabis is one great example of evolution and humans another one, as the great changes that are represented in their and our development over time. But then what is to say that evolution is not just an example of gods work? gods work in progress perhaps?
And people saying that there weren't any others evolved along side the modern humans need to stop being so ignorant and read a little, It will make you feel better I promise.
I don't profess to have all the answers and I never will, I don't push my religious views onto people and I don't discriminate or hate on people for their religion or lack thereof. Live and let live, peace to all, Believers and Non Believers alike. We're all in this together like it or not.
Stark Raving
Active Member
There is evidence for the Big Bang. Testable, reproducable, peer reviewed evidence. That kind of concrete evidence for god simply does not exist.
I find the theory with evidence to be far more believable
I don't think one excludes the other, I simply find one believable and the other not.
Since you are a Christian, we are talking about the god based on christianity. Said god does not have a relationship with us that is comprable to ours with insects, since we did not create insects, but god did create us. And not only that, but created us in his image.
Actually according to christian doctrine, the answer is god does concern himself with us and cares about our well being (if we believe in him).
Perhaps, but again, there's very good evidence to show that evolution is a fact. Not so much that it's gods work though.
With you 100%!
Please don't take any of this as being nasty, or trying to put down your beliefs. I really do agree with you 100% that we're in this together, and live and let live is a great philosophy. I just wanted to respond to the questions you had to help you better understand one guys point of view. You, like many others I know are frre minded enough to not assume you have all the answers. You also have a belief in something, and my guess is that you believe it because you feel it in your heart. I think that's a good thing, and the best reason to believe something that you don't have proof of is to follow your intuition.
If I do come off as a little harsh, I guess it's because I am used to debating religion. I am the administrator of a decent sized atheist forum. I learned to get down to my answers, and sometimes that makes me look like an ass. I hope you see it for what it is. Just my answers. (And I by no means presume to speak for atheists in any capacity. I speak only for myself)
Shannon Alexander
Well-Known Member
It's not nasty at all. You're not being harsh as far as I can see, Just bluntly honest. I have no problem with honesty.
Farfenugen
Well-Known Member
What's the difference between a Jehova's Witness and a Scientologist?
A Jehova's Witness will smile as he's stabbing you in the back, and ask for your foregiveness,
A Scientolgoist will merely smile and say he's just trying to get in touch with your inner alien
Thank Tom Cruise for that one ( I know, lame)
A Jehova's Witness will smile as he's stabbing you in the back, and ask for your foregiveness,
A Scientolgoist will merely smile and say he's just trying to get in touch with your inner alien
Thank Tom Cruise for that one ( I know, lame)
ozman
Well-Known Member
Religion,I dont know about it.What I do know is around here IF they are religous they fuck you over faster then a atheist any day of the week.If they tell you they go to church every sunday,run away.I have been screwed over by jesus nuts more then I have any other.Ive had preachers tell lies against me to save face with their buddies.So what does that say about the people that you should trust in a position on authority?I had a religous couple screw me out of 3000 dollars and they went to church every chance they could.And another thing why is it to go to church you have to wear your sunday go to meeting clothes or you get shunned or just plain asked to not return because of your dress?I dont really understand all that.In my eyes if you want to attend church it shouldnt matter what you wear,or what you drive to church or how expensive your house is.But if you dont meet the requirements you dont get treated the same as those that play by the churches rules.
So Ive been turned off of church every since I try to stay clear of the religous nuts because I know they will lie to me steal from me or cheat me in some way.Maybe not all are like that maybe its just the ones in indiana but I avoid them and go out of my way to stay far from them.I used to go to church when I was a child momma bless her souls seen to it that I had exposure and learning about the church and religion.But not any more when I had the last preacher lie to my face that was the end right there,I did not want any more to do with the lies.
So Ive been turned off of church every since I try to stay clear of the religous nuts because I know they will lie to me steal from me or cheat me in some way.Maybe not all are like that maybe its just the ones in indiana but I avoid them and go out of my way to stay far from them.I used to go to church when I was a child momma bless her souls seen to it that I had exposure and learning about the church and religion.But not any more when I had the last preacher lie to my face that was the end right there,I did not want any more to do with the lies.
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
You should actually examine organized religions, there is much more to be upset about than preachers in your personal life who've screwed you over. I'm glad you decided to leave it behind, but it seems like you may have done it for incorrect reasoning. I could be wrong it's just the way it seems to me, also just trying to get some more conversation going.
Do you believe a god exists?
Uncultivated
Well-Known Member
So why the need to "rub his face in it"? I don't get it...
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
Well at the time it was because of his challenge that if I catch him in a lie he's no longer welcome. He's a really nice guy with the best of intentions, we speak on a casual kind of basis, he's a cool guy.
ozman
Well-Known Member
Do I believe in God?Nobody has ever asked me that before.I would have to say no.Not in the concept of a all omnipotent being,I also dont believe in a higher power either.From what Ive found the religon thing was just another attempt to control the individual.AYou wouldnt want everybody thinking that its ok to start killing,oh wait thats already happening,you wouldnt want everybody to start stealing,oh wait thats wrong too,so anyways,oh yea the control thing.I do try to live a good honest life.My only sin would growing and enjoying the herb.I do smoke tobacco but, I dont drink alcohol,at least not but maybe once or twice a year.We have a tradition of having wine with turkey day meal,and Ive passed that on to my children as well.
But no no God no higher power.I watched a lot of shows and read a lot of books and there is no absolute proof.I was very into science as a child before life lol so I learned you needed proof before you could establish a hypothesis or make a statement.And there is too many things that dont add up,not too mention Ive watched both full seasons of aliens on history channel.
The people of old called them gods because they had no other way of describing them and the aliens was able to do so many amazing things that they where like gods to the people.I belive in aliens and ET'S .And I believe in evolution,it makes more sense then just poof we where here.Besides the 64 dollar question is where did god come from??? He was an alien,he came from space.I dont believe in the he always and always will be.Everything dies,everything Ive ever seen dies at some point so an all mighty omnipotent being.......... no cant see it.
Give me a shred of proof just one thats all I ask is just 1 tiny piece of proof.I may change my mind but until then.......................
Come on ET
But no no God no higher power.I watched a lot of shows and read a lot of books and there is no absolute proof.I was very into science as a child before life lol so I learned you needed proof before you could establish a hypothesis or make a statement.And there is too many things that dont add up,not too mention Ive watched both full seasons of aliens on history channel.
The people of old called them gods because they had no other way of describing them and the aliens was able to do so many amazing things that they where like gods to the people.I belive in aliens and ET'S .And I believe in evolution,it makes more sense then just poof we where here.Besides the 64 dollar question is where did god come from??? He was an alien,he came from space.I dont believe in the he always and always will be.Everything dies,everything Ive ever seen dies at some point so an all mighty omnipotent being.......... no cant see it.
Give me a shred of proof just one thats all I ask is just 1 tiny piece of proof.I may change my mind but until then.......................
Come on ET
Stark Raving
Active Member
Here's a little list of Bible contradictions for you:
http://thethinkingatheist.com/page/bible-contradictions
http://thethinkingatheist.com/page/bible-contradictions
WeeGogs
Active Member
i will give you this in laymans terms..... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Layman
Read
religion is religion, it was invented to aquire huge funds from the poor who needed a belief that life was going to get better at the expense of some money every sunday.
i was taken to court for giving a 16 year old teenager a severe beating to the endangerment of his life which was reduced to serious assault, for laying in to my 14 year old daughter at school and he gave her a black eye and broken teeth etc, the courts in scotland took my view in to account that the teenager would probably have got off scot free with a warning, from the so called goody two shoes fucked up, social work department, and also took in to account that he would not do this to anyone else again.
i was supposed to get two years jail, as a recommendation from the so called, put it right brigade, yes the ......... social work department, the same department that cannot help abused children when they ask for help until they find them dead, but i was sentenced to do 240 hours of community service,
now lets get to the religion part.
i was to do my free work with the church of scotland painting small toilet rooms in churches. as churches are the good of the community.
this was handed to me by a scottish court judge, with a huge seal on the wall behind him, which read,...
nemo me impune lacessit,
Julius Caeser`s Words before he was attacked by the roman senate,
"no one can harm me unpunished".
but instead of a church i ended up in this old peoples convalescent home, owned by the church, painting all the toilet rooms,
(i never even saw a church).......
working as a free slave to one of the richest fucking private organisations in great britain, The Church of Scotland, and all because my daughter got a beating from a bully and i took an eye for an eye.
and they paid me with one free meal a day and my bus fares there and back.
i couldnt believe what i saw, this place is in the heart of Scotland and it was massive, absolutely fucking huge, you should see the grounds, it costs about £600 - $990 a week to stay there and there are hundreds and i mean hundreds of residents, all from the christian church community.
i aked a full time cleaner how many lived there and she said about 400 people. that is about £240,000 - $396,000 a week in rent money. and they get three basic meals a day, cleaning done, the run of the place, and any religious ceremony that the place wants to throw at them, that amounts to £12,480,000 - $20,600,000 a year in rent, not forgetting the wills and testaments left to the church by the lonely old buggers,properties, cash, the lot.
the guy that invented this church must have been a fucking genius as they have places and churches like this all over scotland. i could not even begin to think the yearly intake from all of their establishments. it costs thousands for a wedding in one of their churches and a huge amount for a funural speech, and also baby christenings, where does all the money go?.
religion is a dangerous thing, it has caused violence and death in every corner of the globe since the very beginning of its invention, look what hitler did to the jews, to get their money,.yes.....just because of their religion,
i wonder how much of the yearly profits from the scottish church is dripping in human blood from the past, and they do not send out salesmen to homes to get new members. why should they.
the reason we are here is a natural one that took millions of years to develop, we were not made by some fictitious god, the reason we are here,
is the same reason, that the bacteria is here we came from,
TO GO FORTH AND MULTIPLY
and with multiplication comes strength which gets stronger and stronger with better development.
the human population only 100 years ago was a lot smaller in body size and with a lot less brain development.
we have come very far in only 100 years and that is fact, not fiction.
the majority of us now have enough brains to tell the fucking church doorstep salesmen to get to fuck.
and we live a peaceful life.
also people that are easily led still believe in religion, mostly poor people that would give you their last penny, or fight to the death for you, it is a release for them,
the same release as the dying man, (oh god, oh god, help me die quick), i will be with you soon, not in eternal darkness, YEAH, RIGHT,
and the old rich people, they just hand you all that they have, as long as you tell them there is a better place waiting for them,
religion is as sick today, as it has always been. but the profits are massive.
PROPHETS were people that could predict things in biblical days of old, today they are called accountants and they check the profits.
and if the bible pushers come to your door and you are vulnerable, they will take every fucking penny they can get from you.
and the worst part, they will hand it to their beloved fucking faith.
AMEN.
print this and hand it to them.
they would not be able to resist reading it.
and they will never come back.
Read
religion is religion, it was invented to aquire huge funds from the poor who needed a belief that life was going to get better at the expense of some money every sunday.
i was taken to court for giving a 16 year old teenager a severe beating to the endangerment of his life which was reduced to serious assault, for laying in to my 14 year old daughter at school and he gave her a black eye and broken teeth etc, the courts in scotland took my view in to account that the teenager would probably have got off scot free with a warning, from the so called goody two shoes fucked up, social work department, and also took in to account that he would not do this to anyone else again.
i was supposed to get two years jail, as a recommendation from the so called, put it right brigade, yes the ......... social work department, the same department that cannot help abused children when they ask for help until they find them dead, but i was sentenced to do 240 hours of community service,
now lets get to the religion part.
i was to do my free work with the church of scotland painting small toilet rooms in churches. as churches are the good of the community.
this was handed to me by a scottish court judge, with a huge seal on the wall behind him, which read,...
nemo me impune lacessit,
Julius Caeser`s Words before he was attacked by the roman senate,
"no one can harm me unpunished".
but instead of a church i ended up in this old peoples convalescent home, owned by the church, painting all the toilet rooms,
(i never even saw a church).......
working as a free slave to one of the richest fucking private organisations in great britain, The Church of Scotland, and all because my daughter got a beating from a bully and i took an eye for an eye.
and they paid me with one free meal a day and my bus fares there and back.
i couldnt believe what i saw, this place is in the heart of Scotland and it was massive, absolutely fucking huge, you should see the grounds, it costs about £600 - $990 a week to stay there and there are hundreds and i mean hundreds of residents, all from the christian church community.
i aked a full time cleaner how many lived there and she said about 400 people. that is about £240,000 - $396,000 a week in rent money. and they get three basic meals a day, cleaning done, the run of the place, and any religious ceremony that the place wants to throw at them, that amounts to £12,480,000 - $20,600,000 a year in rent, not forgetting the wills and testaments left to the church by the lonely old buggers,properties, cash, the lot.
the guy that invented this church must have been a fucking genius as they have places and churches like this all over scotland. i could not even begin to think the yearly intake from all of their establishments. it costs thousands for a wedding in one of their churches and a huge amount for a funural speech, and also baby christenings, where does all the money go?.
religion is a dangerous thing, it has caused violence and death in every corner of the globe since the very beginning of its invention, look what hitler did to the jews, to get their money,.yes.....just because of their religion,
i wonder how much of the yearly profits from the scottish church is dripping in human blood from the past, and they do not send out salesmen to homes to get new members. why should they.
the reason we are here is a natural one that took millions of years to develop, we were not made by some fictitious god, the reason we are here,
is the same reason, that the bacteria is here we came from,
TO GO FORTH AND MULTIPLY
and with multiplication comes strength which gets stronger and stronger with better development.
the human population only 100 years ago was a lot smaller in body size and with a lot less brain development.
we have come very far in only 100 years and that is fact, not fiction.
the majority of us now have enough brains to tell the fucking church doorstep salesmen to get to fuck.
and we live a peaceful life.
also people that are easily led still believe in religion, mostly poor people that would give you their last penny, or fight to the death for you, it is a release for them,
the same release as the dying man, (oh god, oh god, help me die quick), i will be with you soon, not in eternal darkness, YEAH, RIGHT,
and the old rich people, they just hand you all that they have, as long as you tell them there is a better place waiting for them,
religion is as sick today, as it has always been. but the profits are massive.
PROPHETS were people that could predict things in biblical days of old, today they are called accountants and they check the profits.
and if the bible pushers come to your door and you are vulnerable, they will take every fucking penny they can get from you.
and the worst part, they will hand it to their beloved fucking faith.
AMEN.
print this and hand it to them.
they would not be able to resist reading it.
and they will never come back.