Amy Vilela for Nevada's 4th

Fogdog · Jul 21, 2017

Padawanbater2 said:
I'm asking you what was Hillary Clinton's solution to the social injustice problem you're claiming Sanders failed to effectively convey to minorities?

You are asking me, a person who voted for Sanders to defend Clinton's solutions. I'm not a social science scholar and don't care enough to delve into that. I looked at their stands and chose Bernie. Most of Oregon did, in fact. Oregon is pretty much lilly white, by the way. As far as what Clinton's policies were in the general election and current through today, the Democratic Party platform can be found here:

https://www.democrats.org/party-platform

This is Clinton's and Sander's platform their representatives agreed to for the 2016 general election.

Unlike you, I'm not speculating exactly what Sanders failed to convey. I say he failed to convey. I say that based upon the whopping big margin over Sanders given to Clinton by black and Hispanic voters. If you want to argue that 23%>>76%, I'll be glad to take it up with you.

And I repeat, Black and Brown communities have been told many times to put their issues on the back burner while we deal with economic issues for everybody. As we can see, this didn't work out so well. Social equality is at the root of many issues for minorities, economic inequality is one of them. Not the other way around.

The best I can gather from I read from analysts and commentators is that Bernie didn't speak much about social issues and when he did he was bad at it. If you don't like that statement, take it up with them. This comfortable white man living in a predominately white state isn't going to speculate on this. That would be presumptuous and patronizing of me.

Padawanbater2 · Jul 21, 2017

abandonconflict said:
Thanks for yet again conveying that you don't care about them.

Just because I don't categorize social justice issues as the top priority doesn't mean I don't care about them. That's another strawman you've constructed because it's easier for you to argue against than my actual position on the issue

abandonconflict said:
why don't you ask a Clinton supporter?

You've been arguing in support of Clinton over the course of multiple threads and criticizing Sanders supporters and his platform because you believe it lacked a clear and concise message that failed to resonate with the African American community. So what was Clinton's message that did seem to resonate with the African American community that Sanders' message/platform lacked?

Pretty straightforward question...

Fogdog · Jul 21, 2017

Padawanbater2 said:
If you can't explain how voting for Trump would be in a poor persons best interest, how can you claim that is in their best interest?

You're saying you can't know while simultaneously claiming to know that it is

Let me turn this around. Do you think Trump supporters knowingly voted against their best interests? Why would they do that? More importantly, are there any facts-based information that supports this assertion?

I heard lots of happiness about Trump winning in November. The wall and all that. I've not heard a peep about Trump supporters deliberately voting against what they want. I reached out and poked 'pie about Trump's dismal performance of late. This is what she said back:

Flaming Pie said:
Stopped payments to Syrian Rebels. Pretty happy about that. Rounding up pedos, illegal alien criminals, criminal refugees, and enforcing the border. All good stuff.

Pursuing the ban on countries that are currently training camps for Jihad. Maybe they will start cracking down on Martyr camps in the US too.

I see Pie as pretty happy with her choice. Self interest and all that.

Fogdog · Jul 21, 2017

abandonconflict said:
Berniebros are so mad that black people didn't vote the way they wanted them to. How did padaraper put it? Black people have a herd mentality?

They voted in droves for Bernie. Apparently 1/4 of the herd makes a drove.

Padawanbater2 · Jul 21, 2017

Fogdog said:
And I repeat, Black and Brown communities have been told many times to put their issues on the back burner while we deal with economic issues for everybody. As we can see, this didn't work out so well. Social equality is at the root of many issues for minorities, economic inequality is one of them. Not the other way around.

Sanders supports economic solutions that would affect the social justice problems; raising the minimum wage, etc. So how is that "putting their issues on the back burner while we deal with economic issues for everybody."? What solutions was Hillary Clinton offering to African Americans that Bernie Sanders wasn't that was more effective at addressing the social issues?

Fogdog said:
The best I can gather from I read from analysts and commentators is that Bernie didn't speak much about social issues and when he did he was bad at it. If you don't like that statement, take it up with them. This comfortable white man living in a predominately white state isn't going to speculate on this.

Except Sanders did speak, quite a bit, about social issues, and when he did, he filled stadiums with people who wanted to hear it. I can cite dozens of examples of exactly that

abandonconflict · Jul 21, 2017

Padawanbater2 said:
Just because I don't categorize social justice issues as the top priority doesn't mean I don't care about them

Oh, it's not JUST because of that, dumb ass.

Padawanbater2 said:
You've been arguing in support of Clinton

no

Padawanbater2 said:
Sanders supporters and his platform because you believe it lacked a clear and concise message that failed to resonate with the African American community.

Oh I don't just believe it, it did. The results were pretty obvious and speak for themselves. I'm just more than happy to point out the self absorbed white guys who feel oppressed by their apparent inability to influence minorities.

Padawanbater2 said:
So what was Clinton's message...

Why don't you ask a Clinton Supporter, dumb ass? You don't mind if I call you dumb ass do you? Since you're so happy to toss around bigoted remarks and slurs while you assign views to me which I do not hold.

Padawanbater2 · Jul 21, 2017

Fogdog said:
Let me turn this around. Do you think Trump supporters knowingly voted against their best interests? Why would they do that? More importantly, are there any facts-based information that supports this assertion?

I heard lots of happiness about Trump winning in November. The wall and all that. I've not heard a peep about Trump supporters deliberately voting against what they want. I reached out and poked 'pie about Trump's dismal performance of late. This is what she said back:

I see Pie as pretty happy with her choice. Self interest and all that.

I'm absolutely sure Trump supporters believe they voted in their best interest. But since many Trump supporters are poor, and his policies will harm them, the reality of the situation is, they did not vote in their best interest.

abandonconflict · Jul 21, 2017

Since many of Trump's supporters are racist and his policies are racist, maybe they fucking did. But as we've seen many Berniebros don't prioritize social issues so maybe you didn't know that racists exist.

Padawanbater2 · Jul 21, 2017

abandonconflict said:
Why don't you ask a Clinton Supporter?

You didn't support Clinton during the general election?

Fogdog · Jul 21, 2017

Padawanbater2 said:
Sanders supports economic solutions that would affect the social justice problems; raising the minimum wage, etc. So how is that "putting their issues on the back burner while we deal with economic issues for everybody."? What solutions was Hillary Clinton offering to African Americans that Bernie Sanders wasn't that was more effective at addressing the social issues?

Except Sanders did speak, quite a bit, about social issues, and when he did, he filled stadiums with people who wanted to hear it. I can cite dozens of examples of exactly that

Are you arguing with me, a comfortable white man, regarding what black people were thinking about Bernie's or Hillary's policies? I'm not going there man. That's simply bizarre.

I point to the fact that he didn't win the black and hispanic vote. That's a fact. The reasons behind it are not mine to identify. Nor yours to deny.

Padawanbater2 · Jul 21, 2017

abandonconflict said:
Since many of Trump's supporters are racist and his policies are racist, maybe they fucking did. But as we've seen many Berniebros don't prioritize social issues so maybe you didn't know that racists exist.

You think voting for a person who supports racist policies is in anyone's best interest?

wtf?

abandonconflict · Jul 21, 2017

Padawanbater2 said:
You think voting for a person who supports racist policies is in anyone's best interest?

wtf?

I bet you would have voted for him if he offered white men free college.

Padawanbater2 · Jul 21, 2017

Fogdog said:
Are you arguing with me, a comfortable white man, regarding what black people were thinking about Bernie's or Hillary's policies? I'm not going there man. That's simply bizarre.

I point to the fact that he didn't win the black and hispanic vote. That's a fact. The reasons behind it are not mine to identify. Nor yours to deny.

Are you suggesting it's somehow racist to discuss what social justice solutions to the problem you lend priority resonated the most with the African American community between the Democratic candidates?

Because that would be pretty bizarre...

Padawanbater2 · Jul 21, 2017

abandonconflict said:
No, I have never supported her.

Well that's a blatant lie, so I'm not really interested in anything else you have to say. I've read multiple posts on multiple threads showing your open support for Clinton. You can lie to yourself, not the rest of us.

abandonconflict · Jul 21, 2017

Padawanbater2 said:
Well that's a blatant lie, so I'm not really interested in anything else you have to say. I've read multiple posts on multiple threads showing your open support for Clinton. You can lie to yourself, not the rest of us.

Aawwww poor oppressed white guy lost another one.

st0wandgrow · Jul 21, 2017

Fogdog said:
The '80's were boom times in the US for many. Many Whites. Not Black and Hispanic and not women. Look at the chart below and tell me our economy doesn't show signs of malignant racism and sexism.

How many times must it be demonstrated that "a rising tide floats all boats" is a false analogy to what happens with jobs and wages? Bernie failed to speak clearly about social issues. When he tried, he revealed his discomfort and poor understanding of them.

Black and Brown communities have been told many times to put their issues on the back burner while we deal with economic issues for everybody. As we can see, this didn't work out so well. Social equality is at the root of many issues for minorities, economic inequality is one of them. Not the other way around.

You don't like the answer given you. Which is, the gimmees you listed were/are the most important to white male voters.

Thanks for taking the time to give me a logical rebuttal without the name calling.

I grew up in Canada and really didn't pay much mind to American politics until the early 2000's. Racial issues (at least back then) aren't like they are here in America. Canada is a pretty ethnically diverse country but it doesn't seem to be as divisive as it is here.

Fogdog · Jul 21, 2017

Padawanbater2 said:
I'm absolutely sure Trump supporters believe they voted in their best interest. But since many Trump supporters are poor, and his policies will harm them, the reality of the situation is, they did not vote in their best interest.

What somebody believes when they cast their ballot is exactly what I'm talking about when I say everybody votes in their own self interest. What others value is up to them. What Pie has said many times is that she no longer needs SNAP and so it's OK for Trump and his government to cut that benefit. Also Muslims want to invade this country and enslave her. Yeah, that seems dumb to me but those are some of her values behind her selection of Trump. She voted in her own self interest according to her values and beliefs. Same for you, although I doubt you see it that way.

What are you driving at? You are asking leading questions. Just say what you want and we can debate that.

Fogdog · Jul 21, 2017

st0wandgrow said:
Thanks for taking the time to give me a logical rebuttal without the name calling.

I grew up in Canada and really didn't pay much mind to American politics until the early 2000's. Racial issues (at least back then) aren't like they are here in America. Canada is a pretty ethnically diverse country but it doesn't seem to be as divisive as it is here.

Yeah, uh, we've had this issue that you might not have heard of...

Padawanbater2 · Jul 21, 2017

Fogdog said:
What somebody believes when they cast their ballot is exactly what I'm talking about when I say everybody votes in their own self interest. What others value is up to them. What Pie has said many times is that she no longer needs SNAP and so it's OK for Trump and his government to cut that benefit. Also Muslims want to invade this country and enslave her. Yeah, that seems dumb to me but those are some of her values behind her selection of Trump. She voted in her own self interest according to her values and beliefs. Same for you, although I doubt you see it that way.

What are you driving at? You are asking leading questions. Just say what you want and we can debate that.

It's ignorant to imply it's racist to suggest that a group of people voted against their self interest

abandonconflict · Jul 21, 2017

st0wandgrow said:
Thanks for taking the time to give me a logical rebuttal without the name calling.

I grew up in Canada and really didn't pay much mind to American politics until the early 2000's. Racial issues (at least back then) aren't like they are here in America. Canada is a pretty ethnically diverse country but it doesn't seem to be as divisive as it is here.

That is understandable and a step in the right direction. You might start to see what is wrong with some of your earlier comments in this thread if you try to.

Amy Vilela for Nevada's 4th

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member