Amendment 64

Trousers said:

Fuck me gently with a chainsaw.
I could go 48 hours without weed, shudder, and still be above 5 nanograms.

We have fucking impaired driving laws on the books.

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Has anyone run the numbers and done a chart, comparing ingestion with ng/L? Like is I go to a concert and get pulled over afterwards will I pass the needle stick even I didn't smoke, but simply breathed? With beer it seems to be a few beers in a short time will get you over, but a few beers over a few hours and you are not above the DUI limit. Unless your liver runs slow. Is there a chart that shows number of tokes or joints per hour and the blood level?

Thanks Trou, now I can't even look at my chain saw.

420circuit said:

Has anyone run the numbers and done a chart, comparing ingestion with ng/L? Like is I go to a concert and get pulled over afterwards will I pass the needle stick even I didn't smoke, but simply breathed? With beer it seems to be a few beers in a short time will get you over, but a few beers over a few hours and you are not above the DUI limit. Unless your liver runs slow. Is there a chart that shows number of tokes or joints per hour and the blood level?

Thanks Trou, now I can't even look at my chain saw.

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I've looked for what you're asking for on and off for a few months researching Internet. Haven't found diddly squat. Which isn't surprising as any accredited research, medical or otherwise, of cannabis has and is controlled by the Gubmint in the USA since 1970. Rat bastard Feds.

And, IMHO, it will take significant research on impairment (like they did with Alcohol) to come up with a standard. As far as I know, this 5ng limit that is being debated has no basis from an accredited study. To make it worse, everyone's body chemistry is different, same as metabolizing alcohol, only more so....

Couple years ago my gf sent me a link to a youtube video, it was a news story about a lawyer in, I think, San Diego. He was getting people off on toking/driving charges by citing two federal studies: one by the highway safety folks and another by the DOT I believe. Both studies concluded that there is no evidence that cannabis ingestion impairs driving. The only significant difference they could find was that stoned drivers tend to drive more slowly. I posted about it in the Legal forum long time ago.

Bubbagineer said:

I've looked for what you're asking for on and off for a few months researching Internet. Haven't found diddly squat. Which isn't surprising as any accredited research, medical or otherwise, of cannabis has and is controlled by the Gubmint in the USA since 1970. Rat bastard Feds.

And, IMHO, it will take significant research on impairment (like they did with Alcohol) to come up with a standard. As far as I know, this 5ng limit that is being debated has no basis from an accredited study. To make it worse, everyone's body chemistry is different, same as metabolizing alcohol, only more so....

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There must be SOME scientific basis for the blood level, yes? Or will everyone who has ever been within a mile of a bong be presumed guilty of being a public menace? Who exactly is putting this number out there? The task force should be helping to get some definition to this murky mess, hopefully they will have something concrete instead of yet another 'defer to someone else' answer. Age reduces patience when it comes to administrative crap. Can we just vote on it? Oh wait, we did and weed is now legal, or is it?

That's what I'M SAYIN'. Its totally fucked. 5Ng? U can't even get high off that much. Forced blood draws? Wtf. Someone please explain how that's reasonable. Its not, its a way to profit from pain, just like Dave chapell said.

US Supreme Court says forced blood draws are unconstitutional, if they ever attempt to take my blood for any test i will fight until i break the needle off in my own arm.
The costs associated with this are going to be ridiculous, not to mention that it seems like a good lawsuit to me, taking me to jail to take my blood for something that is legal. No way to do a roadside blood draw unless they have a phlobotimist with them at all times. I know i wouldn't let a dirty pig get any where near me with a needle.

420circuit said:

There must be SOME scientific basis for the blood level, yes? Or will everyone who has ever been within a mile of a bong be presumed guilty of being a public menace? Who exactly is putting this number out there? The task force should be helping to get some definition to this murky mess, hopefully they will have something concrete instead of yet another 'defer to someone else' answer. Age reduces patience when it comes to administrative crap. Can we just vote on it? Oh wait, we did and weed is now legal, or is it?

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Whats going to have to happen are real studies. You take a controlled sample of people of varying usage levels and you run through cognitive and manual dexterity tests, etc. how you get to a single permissible limit is beyond me though. However, IMHO we do need something, think about all them stretch neck tourists drivin to the slopes burn a joint that's 10 times more powerful than the shitty brick weed they get at home.... Just sayin.

We should have a lane for those guys. "Stoned out-of-staters use far right lane, and turn off your blinker yo".

chef c said:

We should have a lane for those guys. "Stoned out-of-staters use far right lane, and turn off your blinker yo".

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That's hilarious lol and would probably be a perfect solution, but you know the man wouldn't go for it.

Ok, so I went back and read this entire thread - sorry I wasn't around then, would have been fun discussion. Anyway, nowhere did I see what the "1oz" that you can legally give away has to be cured bud, surely clones would be ok yes?

Here in Maine, clones that are less than 12" x 12" aren't even weed. We can have an unlimited number of those (for mmj of course, we aren't recreational..yet).

Bubbagineer said:

Ok, so I went back and read this entire thread - sorry I wasn't around then, would have been fun discussion. Anyway, nowhere did I see what the "1oz" that you can legally give away has to be cured bud, surely clones would be ok yes?

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Yes there is currently nothing preventing us from giving away clones, seeds, flowers or concentrates, as long as its less than 1 oz.

TruenoAE86coupe said:

US Supreme Court says forced blood draws are unconstitutional, if they ever attempt to take my blood for any test i will fight until i break the needle off in my own arm.
The costs associated with this are going to be ridiculous, not to mention that it seems like a good lawsuit to me, taking me to jail to take my blood for something that is legal. No way to do a roadside blood draw unless they have a phlobotimist with them at all times. I know i wouldn't let a dirty pig get any where near me with a needle.

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That makes two of us. They'll have to tranq me to get a needle in my arm.

The whole "donations" thing creates a problem for the law that maybe a lawyer could resolve, but The Man says that it is illegal to accept a donation for weed. Denver Post ran a story with that sentiment, quoted from law enforcement recently. To be clear, I think that MMJ should be completely legal, but the current status is pretty spooky, where the cops are still under the impression that it is a narcotic and they are getting that from the guv, the chief and the media. And no, a cop will never poke you with the needle, they would take you to a med center or call out an ambulance to have it done and you would have to pay for it. Not the law currently, but that is where it looks to be headed.

I still find it hard to believe that they could force a blood draw. Consequences for not complying, sure, but I don't think they can poke you without your permission, signing.

Pretty sad when all that is needed is a road side sobriety test. I can remember breathalyzers coming out shortly after I started driving. Before that, it was up to the cop whether you were too drunk to drive. Which sounds scary, but worked pretty good for a long time until the science was ready to provide law enforcement with field deployable equipment.

Funny and true story to follow. I got pulled over as a kid, maybe 19 yrs old or so and the cop (beer belly S. GA deputy) must have just got his breathalyzer(it was slightly smaller than a loaf of bread ). I never got out of the car, he had me blow into the tube, I had heard about them so I puffed out my cheeks and didn't blow through the tube, and he was too dense to realize he needed to put his hand behind the tube to make sure I was blowing lol. Blew 0.0, he looked at it kinda puzzled and let me go. If I would have gotten out of the car I probably would have fallen over because I was most definitely drunk.

Anyway, my point is, with weed, a roadside sobriety test will easily show whether you are too high to drive. The 5ng thing is much too rigid of a measure (a tourist could be under the limit and way too impaired to drive if it was a first experience with weed) And yes, I know that there are people that can't pass a roadside sobriety test when sober due to various meds & conditions. There will be no good solution.

tet1953 said:

I still find it hard to believe that they could force a blood draw. Consequences for not complying, sure, but I don't think they can poke you without your permission, signing.

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The penalty for refusing a breathalyzer test, last I heard, was a year mandatory suspended license. Likely to be similar for pot test, refuse you lose, agree and you pay, then risk losing. Woe unto those who have balance issues due to disease or illness or have red eyes from whatever. Let's just make it legal and bust people for actually doing something wrong, like crashing their cars into something or driving bad instead of figuring out ways to nitpick people's lives apart.

420circuit said:

And no, a cop will never poke you with the needle, they would take you to a med center or call out an ambulance to have it done and you would have to pay for it. Not the law currently, but that is where it looks to be headed.

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The reason the Supreme court ever made a ruling on this is Police in Nevada were taking the blood themselves. They did not have consent and if you refused they would hold you down while they took the blood. You may believe the cops wouldn't do it, but it is much cheaper than paying a qualified person to do it. And again it is legal in Colorado, so are they going to risk dragging you down to the precinct to draw your blood just to find out you are legal? There is a reason breathalizers are roadside.

The fucked part is that colorado is a "per se" state. They tried to charge me w that when I got popped last year, but the DA threw it out...

Good job idiots. As a grower I am infuriated by this law. Why would these idiot hippies vote this in, you seriously want government grown cannabis? We had it so good and now its going to put thousands of growers like myself out of biz, or blackmarket in other states. They're talking about controlling the THC content that can be sold. Making cannabis use commercially available ruins everything. Sorry, salty this morning...