Amendment 64

SoCoMMJ

Well-Known Member
Damn sounds like you got a lot riding on this, how much did you invest to get this on the ballot?
As a business owner I would be wise to vote against it. When patients can shop without having to pay for a doctor's rec, pay the state fees, or get into a database, why would that go through all that hassle and expense ? 64 will probably kill off Medical Marijuana centers because they will not be able to sell to people that don't have Red Cards.

Your logic is seriously flawed.
 

FlyLikeAnEagle

Well-Known Member
As a business owner I would be wise to vote against it. When patients can shop without having to pay for a doctor's rec, pay the state fees, or get into a database, why would that go through all that hassle and expense ? 64 will probably kill off Medical Marijuana centers because they will not be able to sell to people that don't have Red Cards.

Your logic is seriously flawed.

Look I understand someone wanting to protect their business interest but don't insult my intelligence in the process. You must truly believe people are stupid.
 

SoCoMMJ

Well-Known Member
It's unfortunate that long time grass roots activists in Colorado are coming out against A64. Why?
3 reasons:
They failed to get their initiative on the ballot and therefore all other initiatives suck.
They can't grow it in their basement and sell it on the street.
They have established Medical Marijuana businesses and don't want the retail competition.

1. A64 does not repeal the majority of jail-able offenses (felonies)and leaves marijuana in the definitions of the state Controlled Substances Act, which makes all cannabis users subject to lose: employment, unemployment benefits, housing, school grants, government aid,child custody, fire arms and occupational licenses (of which DORA says 75% of workers in Colorado have). To suggest that under Amendment 64 all adult use and cultivation of marijuana is no longer criminalized is not only misleading, but will result in increased arrests.
Like brewing beer, you can brew it at home but you cant sell it. You are also limited on how much beer you can brew. On would think that in order to lose all the things you have stated, that you must first be convicted of a crime. Your claims of losing all of the above seem to be somewhat fear mongering. This initiative does not worsen the situation for any of the above... it simply remains the same as it is right now. A64 does allow legal possession, legal cultivation, and legal consumption, within reasonable constraints. Your claim of increased arrests is just absolutely false and more misleading than the other claims you make against the initiative. Your tactics reek of those used for years by prohibitionists. Make horrific claims, yet provide no data or distorted data to back it up. Seriously, MORE arrests? Impossible.

3. Provides no relief for the most affected and arrested adults age 18 - 20. (especially those from disadvantages communities).
Yeah, It is going to remain a petty offense for them as it is today. However, it does not make it any worse than it is right now.


4. Amendment 64 contains no proper legal deterrent to federal intervention and the surplus of $40 million via a constitutionally infirm excise tax will not stand in court. The soonest authorized retail sales for adults could be 2014, if at all. Forcing adults to rely on the black market in the interim.
Adults are not "forced to rely on the black market". They can use their current red card at a MMJ dispensary. They can grow their own. When retail shops are open, they can shop there. You are tweaking the truth to make it seem like this initiative will make things worse than they are today. Your "interim" is today as things stand. People already use the black market. It's been that way for many years. With retail facilities established they will be free of the black market. Nobody is being forced into the black market.


5. Amendment 64 is designed to shut down MMJ. (A64 fiscal impact white paper predicts an 79% defection in registered MMJ patients to the recreational market) No MMJ centers can survive such a decline in the MMJ market.
It was not designed to shut down MMJ. I do believe that if patients no longer have to pay and go to the doctor to get a rec, pay the state fee, and enter the state database with their application, that they won't do it. Most Medical Marijuana Centers, as a result, will likely close due to the diminished patient base. Medical Marijuana Caregivers are not impacted in their ability to grow for their patients. Patients will still be able to grow for themselves if they wish. But why would they go through the hassle and expense for a Red Card if it wasn't required? [Unless they needed more than 6 plants]


6. Amendment 64 allows towns to ban all marijuana sales, which bolsters the black market, as most of the state has already banned MMJ (over 95 bans statewide). This forces adults in ban areas to rely on illegal sales and risk criminal prosecution.
You are misleading with your statement that "Most of the state has already banned MMJ" Adults in ban areas are not "forced to rely on illegal sales". They can legally grow their own or they can shop in non banned areas just like patients do today. Their ability to legally obtain marijuana improves over the situation we have today, not worsens as your misleading statement projects.


7. Amendment 64 sets a dangerous legal precedent of applying taxes to agricultural seed. (viable marijuana seed is defined as marijuana in Amendment 64). Per 39-26-716(4)(b) all sales and purchases of seeds are exempt from sales tax in Colorado. Amendment 64 taxes viable marijuana seed and specifically creates an excise tax on viable marijuana seed and this precedent could be incredibly harmful to Colorado farmers who use viable seed to produce non cannabis agriculture.
lol... who cares. You really think this will lead to taxing all agricultural seed? No way in hell.


8. Amendment 64 provides no legal guidance on hemp and merely mandates the general assembly to pass legislation. This still allows the general assembly to ban hemp production.
Here is the text regarding hemp from the initiative:
(j) NOT LATER THAN JULY 1, 2014, THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY SHALL ENACT LEGISLATION GOVERNING THE CULTIVATION, PROCESSING AND SALE OF INDUSTRIAL HEMP.
Your statement is very misleading.

9. Amendment 64 enshrines "driving while under the influence" (any amount over zero) and "driving while impaired" into our constitution, by deferring to current State DUID limits could prevent MMJ patients and other wise responsible adults who consume cannabis from legally driving."
Again, your statement is misleading. Here is the text from the initiative:
(III) DRIVING UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF MARIJUANA SHALL REMAIN ILLEGAL;
and
(b) NOTHING IN THIS SECTION IS INTENDED TO ALLOW DRIVING UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF MARIJUANA OR DRIVING WHILE IMPAIRED BY MARIJUANA OR TO SUPERSEDE STATUTORY LAWS RELATED TO DRIVING UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF MARIJUANA OR DRIVING WHILE IMPAIRED BY MARIJUANA, NOR SHALL THIS SECTION PREVENT THE STATE FROM ENACTING AND IMPOSING PENALTIES FOR DRIVING UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF OR WHILE IMPAIRED BY MARIJUANA.

That's it.. No "any amount over zero" as you attempted to mislead with. It's just not in there. There is a difference between having residual THC in your system and being under the influence. There are already laws on the books regarding driving while impaired by anything. Not sure about you, but if somebody is actually impaired and fails a roadside test, I don't want them on the road with me.

10. At least 99% of the marketing of A64 over the last year has been done in violation of 1-13-109CRS-Concerning the election offense of making false statements designed to affect the vote. (http://www.state.co.us/gov_dir/leg_dir/olls/sl2005a/sl_305.htm). Telling everyone that A64 legalizes when the A64 campaign argued at title board hearings that A64 did NOT legalize, qualifies--and the question becomes--why lie? Why promise voters the whole enchilada only to serve up white rice?
You are not the judge and jury here. It has not even been charged that any A64 promotion has been out of line.

It saddens me that the different factions regarding marijuana, medical marijuana, and legalization of marijuana can not get past their own petty issues and egos to work together toward a common resolve. More energy is spent fighting between the factions than is spent moving legalization forward. Tactics used on marijuana infighting are worse than those used by even the prohibitionists that we have come to loathe over the years. Misrepresented facts, outright lies, and fear mongering are our own worst enemies. No wonder this prohibition has been in place going on 80 years.

Bottom line, Citizens will be able to Grow their own, legally posses, legally consume, and purchase without the black market..of course within the reasonable limits. Is this bill perfect? Probably not. Is it better than what we have right now? I think so.
 

illtoxic

Well-Known Member
THANK YOU SO MUCH SOCOMMJ!!!!!

I think a lot of people will be truly truly happy and actually be able to make an informed decision since you took the time to pick apart each one of those false/mis-guided generalizations.

It may not be perfect but that is what the future is for and more years of voting to come.
 

SoCoMMJ

Well-Known Member
Look I understand someone wanting to protect their business interest but don't insult my intelligence in the process. You must truly believe people are stupid.
Intelligence and logic are unrelated. Logic is a process or formulation.

You stated that voting for A64 would bolster business in a Medical Marijuana Dispensary, when actually it will probably force it into decline. You conclusion that A64 would be good for business was incorrect because you missed a critical piece of data... without red cards they can't shop in a dispensary. People won't buy red cards if they don't have to.

Sorry if you felt that I was insulting your intelligence, wasn't my intent by any means. And while society does seem to have an abundance of stupid people, I don't automatically assume that all people are stupid. They have to prove it first.
 

Trousers

Well-Known Member
Hey onebrownmouse, I am confused why you would lobby so hard against marijuana decriminalization?

I would have voted for your amendment if you and your lazy friends could have got it on the ballot.
Like many people I believe that no plants should be illegal.

What kind of fool would vote against amendment 64 and claim to be a marijuana activist?


It is politics.
The "all or nothing at all" approach is beyond stupid.

If amendment 64 passes, then put up your amendment and I will vote for it.
Change is better than nothing.


You have lost your way. Your idealism odes not make any sense in the real world.
Poke the giant and vote yes on amendment 64!

I already voted yes. It was a vote for progress.

You plan on voting the same way as the police, DAs, our idiot governor, the owners of treatment centers that use rape and abuse as treatment...
Nice company you keep.
 

Trousers

Well-Known Member
Not a surprising stance considering you are a dispensary owner. You guys keep pushing this as 'regulate like alcohol' and then you say you're fine with the ounce limit and if someone has more than that they are selling illegally.
Why do you need to sell marijuana? If you grow it you should grow enough for yourself. I am confused about your concerns.


Am I selling alcohol illegally if I have 20 cases in my car? Do people go to jail that have more than a 6 pack? Its not legalization, its not regulate like alcohol, its just rhetoric from the dispensary owners that fucked themselves with 1284.
That does not make sense. Did you brew that beer?

Funny that you say I'm misleading because of the ounce limit. So there is no ounce limit? Yea with grows but you are banking on the fact that most won't grow, does every patient now grow? I think its you that's misleading.

Your arguments against 64 are misleading and not coherent.
 

FlyLikeAnEagle

Well-Known Member
Your arguments against 64 are misleading and not coherent.

Funny, I was thinking the same about your post.

You dumbasses didnt learn your lesson with dispensaries monopolizing with HB1284 and all the regulations that came with it.

This bill has had over $5 million of out of state money to push it, you want out of state corporations to be the ones to control this then vote for it.

Dispensaries desperately want this, they hired lobbyists to push HB1284 in an attempt to kill off their competition, the caregiver, and in the process shot themselves in the foot because people still don't want their shitty weed, and now that less people are renewing they are panicking and see this as their meal ticket.
 

Medshed

Well-Known Member
Ironic use of a "gateway theory" flylikeaneagle. There is nothing in A64 that requires the industry to be run by out of state corporations. Presumably, you think cannabis legalization is a gateway to corporate greed and control?

Am I safe to assume that you are a prohibitionist then? If not, what type of legalization would you find acceptable?
 

Brokeoldbloke

Active Member
Vote Yes on Amendment 64.
Please!

It has to start somewhere. 64 is a small step but at the very least people will talk about it and other states will eventually pass similar amendments.
Those who oppose it and only want all or nothing are just dreaming or have a hidden agenda. People resist change so changes need to be made slowly.

If you don’t start the journey you’ll never reach the destination. One small sprout in Colorado can lead to the large scale cultivation of the nation. :peace:
 

BadDog40

Well-Known Member
Ironic use of a "gateway theory" flylikeaneagle. There is nothing in A64 that requires the industry to be run by out of state corporations. Presumably, you think cannabis legalization is a gateway to corporate greed and control?

Am I safe to assume that you are a prohibitionist then? If not, what type of legalization would you find acceptable?

It's not legalization if people will still go to jail.
It's not legalization if cops still can bust your door down to check how many plants you have.
It's not legalization if you can still lose your job because you smoked some a week ago.
It's not legalization if the state can charge you with child abuse because you are growing a plant.

No difference between the way things are now.
 

BadDog40

Well-Known Member
Why do you need to sell marijuana? If you grow it you should grow enough for yourself. I am confused about your concerns.
I suggest you show me anywhere where I said I sell. If you're going to state someone is committing a crime as fact you had better have proof otherwise you are being libelous and slanderous.
 

Trousers

Well-Known Member
Funny, I was thinking the same about your post.

You dumbasses didnt learn your lesson with dispensaries monopolizing with HB1284 and all the regulations that came with it.

This bill has had over $5 million of out of state money to push it, you want out of state corporations to be the ones to control this then vote for it.

Dispensaries desperately want this, they hired lobbyists to push HB1284 in an attempt to kill off their competition, the caregiver, and in the process shot themselves in the foot because people still don't want their shitty weed, and now that less people are renewing they are panicking and see this as their meal ticket.

Which one is it, the dispensaries are hurt by this or not?

Why not vote for this and then you lazy stoners can get the version you want up for vote.

How is a corporation going to control this?
What are dispensaries monopolizing?
 

Trousers

Well-Known Member
I suggest you show me anywhere where I said I sell. If you're going to state someone is committing a crime as fact you had better have proof otherwise you are being libelous and slanderous.

Lighten up Francis. It was an example that you brought up. You sound paranoid.


Decriminalization is better than what we have now.
How is that hard for you to understand?

Why not vote yes and tell the federal government to go fuck themselves?
 

GreenPeak

Active Member
I will be voting yes! No one will be required to buy from any shop nor be listed in some database if you are over 21 you can grow your own, which I would highly recommend (just as I would highly recommend you grow your own food) you can keep all the pesticides off and do it organic. If you can grow your own and keep all you harvest on site what is the issue? This site and many others will explode and over time the stigmas attached to cannabis will dissolve paving the way for a better law. Not only will you be able to grow your own but prices will drop like in 2008-2010 and the black market will almost be forced out of business( also the law states you can give it to friends over 21 if its less than 1 ounce how cool would it be for the herb to be so plentiful that you don't mind tossing a homie his meds for FREE). Now on the whole child thing one of our caregivers for 303 who does testing has been searched by the 50 and has a 3 year old the cop told him as long as the child cannot see or touch the plants or medicine there is no issue. If the child can see them its endangerment if the child can touch its abuse...I'm just speaking from experience. I also know another patient with a little boy who had an explosion while making hash in his house and was growing as well. The cops came thinking meth found out MMJ did a check to make sure all was legit and nothing happened still has his little boy and still grows legally. If you lock it up keep it behind closed doors and stay legal there should be no issues.

Now where I get excited is the potential for research once it does become legal that is a step towards the feds leaving us alone and possibly getting some solid cancer prevention research done right here in Colorado!!!!

Let the Feds know this is a STATE issue not federal Vote YES and take a stand against this prohibition!
 

FlyLikeAnEagle

Well-Known Member
Which one is it, the dispensaries are hurt by this or not?

Why not vote for this and then you lazy stoners can get the version you want up for vote.

How is a corporation going to control this?
What are dispensaries monopolizing?

Send me another private message and I'll consider it harassment and proceed as such.

Comprende?
 
I70, written because A64 made ballot status and the language in A64 is merely symbolic and will not be upheld in the court of law....actually the Beinor-v-IACO and the People-v-Watkins rulings in the appeals court already null and void. Written just to prove language can be written in a fashion that has a good chance of being upheld.
 

BadDog40

Well-Known Member
Send me another private message and I'll consider it harassment and proceed as such.

Comprende?

This guy Trousers just joined a few months ago and is making slanderous statements about me and is also sending threats to you? Are people so damn stupid that they think they can't be tracked and held responsible for the shit they do online?
 

dbkick

Well-Known Member
vote no and fuel the federal fucks and keep that unreported coin in your pocket. wasn't california enough example for you dumbass fucks? all two of you. gonna sue me for slander for calling you a dumbass? good luck.
 

obijohn

Well-Known Member
Take a lesson from California. Prop 9 would have decriminilized and regulate marijuana beyond the medical marijuana laws Cali has. It was defeated in large part because often greed of growers and some others in the marijuana community. That was a major setback. Had it passed, it would likely have made it easier for other states to follow suit and may have forced a showdown between the Feds and states on the matter.

It should be made legal, plain and simple. Once that is done, specifics can be tweaked down the road
 
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