Alternative for crab meal

Cant find any in my area,is there something else that will help with bugs? thanks.

Neem meal is stinking and might dive them off.

Diatomaceous Earth is abrasive and might scrape them up.

Insect frass has chitin like the crab shell does.

Some bottled nutrients like "oceanic" Hydrolysate or "crustacean fertilizer" contain Chitin. There are also fancy chitosan fertilizers that are distilled down super concentrated.

People also use "Mosquito Dunk" bug killer stuff from Home Depot for bugs. No fertilizer value, it just kills bugs.

youraveragehorticulturist said:

Neem meal is stinking and might dive them off.

Diatomaceous Earth is abrasive and might scrape them up.

Insect frass has chitin like the crab shell does.

Some bottled nutrients like "oceanic" Hydrolysate or "crustacean fertilizer" contain Chitin. There are also fancy chitosan fertilizers that are distilled down super concentrated.

People also use "Mosquito Dunk" bug killer stuff from Home Depot for bugs. No fertilizer value, it just kills bugs.

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Thanks,wondering what i could add to my mix prior to cooking?Or is what your suggesting can go in after as a top layer.

I guess everything but the Diatomaceous Earth could be mixed in before or top dressed after, or both. DE has to be sprinkled on top.

I guess the question is what stuff is available around you?

found some insect frass,so how much do i add per cu/ft? Im doing 1 cup lime ,1 cup kelp, 1.5 cup 4 4 8. 4 cups rock dust.thanks.

You can go by your local pet shop, if they have reptiles then they should also have feeder insects, you can ask for the leftover bedding material, it should be loaded with shed exoskelotons, also has their droppings for some extra fertalizer, otherwise try mushroom compost, the active beneficial ingredient in crab/isopod shells is chitin, its the second most abundant naturally occuring polymer next to cellulose and is also a large component of fungal cell walls, hence why isopod shells make the plant think it has a fungus/ bug feeding from/on it, earthworms also have chitin so you can put them in your soil aswell

I should add though that I've found almost all sources of chitin to be near useless at repelling insects from the soil, I think the main benefit is that it deters them from feeding on the actual plant and increases yields by activating certain genes, most wild bird manure should also have a decent amount of isopod shells, especially seagull.

I use half a cup of Crab Meal per cubic foot, I think half a cup of frass would be OK.

Is your all-in-one mix really 4-4-8? Some frass is high in Potassium, kelp has potassium and 4-4-8 is a lot of potassium. I don't know for sure that will cause problems, maybe just be aware.

And just some food for thought, i stopped using crab shell when I got mycos, my thinking was that since they have chitin they should activate those same genes, and that adding any other chitin would promote chitin eating bacteria that might attack them, I haven't researched this, it's just what made sense to me

youraveragehorticulturist said:

I use half a cup of Crab Meal per cubic foot, I think half a cup of frass would be OK.

Is your all-in-one mix really 4-4-8? Some frass is high in Potassium, kelp has potassium and 4-4-8 is a lot of potassium. I don't know for sure that will cause problems, maybe just be aware.

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This is what my first batch has. Today I found some Gaia green 4-4-4.

You'll probably be fine, don't let me get you all worried.

Just in case, when you mix up your soil leave some of your "base mix" un-amnended. Set aside some of your peat/aeration/compost mix without anything else added. That way if your soil mix is too hot you can add in some plain stuff to water it down, then repot your plants.

More questions iudm,covering while cooking, we have aphids hatching like crazy this time of year.I have a plastic bag overtop of my 2cu/ft tote.Is this ok?its outside.

myke said:

More questions iudm,covering while cooking, we have aphids hatching like crazy this time of year.I have a plastic bag overtop of my 2cu/ft tote.Is this ok?its outside.

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We use a big ass tote bin with a lid on loose for amending/recycling soil. I suggest keeping your bin out of the rain and getting rid of the plastic altogether. A small amount of airflow is needed; light is not.
Neem seed meal is fairly effective in driving off leaf munchers like thrips. Diatomaceous earth does well against fungus gnats; they are really more of a nuisance than anything else unless they get out of hand. DE also provides silica once it breaks down after a real long time. You can throw DE in your mix as an amendment, especially if you have issues with flying fuckers in your recycling soil like I have in the past. DE is more effective sprinkled on top layer of your containers. There sell these accordion style dusting applicators available which puts the DE on like a very fine layer; is worth the extra few bucks.
Use crushed oyster shell and/or fish bone meal in place of crab meal. Never added crab meal to the mix as there are so many alternatives. I second the insect frass. Very cheap and a little goes a long way.

Richard Drysift said:

We use a big ass tote bin with a lid on loose for amending/recycling soil. I suggest keeping your bin out of the rain and getting rid of the plastic altogether. A small amount of airflow is needed; light is not.
Neem seed meal is fairly effective in driving off leaf munchers like thrips. Diatomaceous earth does well against fungus gnats; they are really more of a nuisance than anything else unless they get out of hand. DE also provides silica once it breaks down after a real long time. You can throw DE in your mix as an amendment, especially if you have issues with flying fuckers in your recycling soil like I have in the past. DE is more effective sprinkled on top layer of your containers. There sell these accordion style dusting applicators available which puts the DE on like a very fine layer; is worth the extra few bucks.
Use crushed oyster shell and/or fish bone meal in place of crab meal. Never added crab meal to the mix as there are so many alternatives. I second the insect frass. Very cheap and a little goes a long way.

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Awesome thanks,I can get oyster and fish bone.Ill just put a cover over the tote,will use DE when i plant.

I used diatamaceous earth in and on the soil, in the soil did nothing and on the soil it gets wet with watering. Mosquito dunks are where it's at imo.

Crushed limestone and malted barley...Malted barley has the chitinase we are after from crab meal. Limestone is a much cheaper alternative for the nutritional benefits

DE has to be sprinkled on top and dry to harm insects but you can mix Neem seed meal into your soil, top dress with it and foliar spray Neem Oil or Neem seed meal tea. It will whoop fungus gnats, severely impede thrips and in theory shouldnt harm the soil mites.

myke said:

Cant find any in my area,is there something else that will help with bugs? thanks.

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Amazon has it for a reasonable price.

If that's not an option for some reason, look into Insect Frass.

Neem Meal too, but that should be a part of any soil mix IMO.

Habanero pepper spray.

kratos015 said:

Amazon has it for a reasonable price.

If that's not an option for some reason, look into Insect Frass.

Neem Meal too, but that should be a part of any soil mix IMO.

Habanero pepper spray.

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I’m in Canada.neem anything meal oil etc is forbidden.

They might want to reexamine that policy LOL