...All Things Vero...

Would you consider buying a VERO after reading through some of the posts?

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Scornfulheal

Active Member
Hey everyone, I'm back after a brief hiatus.

I am still trying to set up a light for a 2'x1'x3' space, meaning height limitations. I'm thinking 1 rectangular light unit that has 5 LED COBs each on their own Arctic 11 Plus. The sole middle light would be a Vero 13 3500K @500-700mA. The outer 4 lights would each be Vero 18 3000Ks @500mA.

Thoughts? I was thinking run the sole Vero 13 3500K for veg, then flip on the Vero 18 3000Ks for flower. I'm doing autoflowering btw, if that has any impact.

Supra or any elders, would this seem like an alright start? Is 1 Vero 13 3500K @500-700mA too strong, weak, or on the mark for veg?
 
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Scornfulheal

Active Member
Oh, forgot to ask the main question that brought me back! I need driver advice if I am indeed going through with the above situation.

I was recommended to use an AC/DC constant voltage PSU using individual DC/DC bucks per COB if I am wiring more than 4. Should I follow that advice?

I found an AC/DC buck, would this be sufficient to run these veros? http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/3021-D-E-700/788-1109-ND/3114435
 
AquariusPanta

AquariusPanta

Well-Known Member
Scornfulheal said:
Hey everyone, I'm back after a brief hiatus.

I am still trying to set up a light for a 2'x1'x3' space, meaning height limitations. I'm thinking 1 rectangular light unit that has 5 LED COBs each on their own Arctic 11 Plus. The sole middle light would be a Vero 13 3500K @500-700mA. The outer 4 lights would each be Vero 18 3000Ks @500mA.

Thoughts? I was thinking run the sole Vero 13 3500K for veg, then flip on the Vero 18 3000Ks for flower. I'm doing autoflowering btw, if that has any impact.

Supra or any elders, would this seem like an alright start? Is 1 Vero 13 3500K @500-700mA too strong, weak, or on the mark for veg?
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I'd advise running 1x 4000K in the middle and 4x 3500K as companions, as the 4000K has enough blue to for vegging and the 3500K has plenty of red in it for flowering.

To compare grow spaces, I'm working with 2' x 3' x 5' and am currently running 6x Vero 18's - 2x at 1050mA and 4x at 700mA. This provides around 150W of power and comes out to around 30 watts per square foot. I keep the prototype light fixture around two feet away from canopies during vegetation.

Your better off spending the extra and running a Vero 18 3500K rather than Vero 13, as the efficiency bump will be more beneficial for you and should be fine for vegetation. If you keep the designated vegetation COB farther than a foot at 500~700mA, your plant will be fine. Bleaching happened to me with Vero 18s, powered at 1050mA and four inches from canopy (had to find that boundary ;) ).

As far as driver selection, I can only recommend drivers that are constant amperage, with voltage ranges, such as 17V-36V. This will give your COBs some wiggle room while warming up. I've never tried using a constant voltage driver and do not know of anyone here on RIU that implements them into their creations, although I can be very forgetful at times.
 
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SupraSPL

SupraSPL

Well-Known Member
I think 700mA is a good cost compromise for Vero18. You could put a 5000K vero18 in the center to help reduce stretch (AP beat me to it). That would give you a total of 100W or about 50W/ft². That is very high intensity but if you can keep it fed, why not :).

You could use a HLG-120H-C700B which would give you a dimming knob, you could gradually increase as the plant gets established. It can run all 5 Veros and you get 92-93% driver efficiency in one step. You could save a few $ if you went with 600-700mA generic drivers, something like this or this about 85-87% efficient. There are some on eBay that ship from US and cheap.
 
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avnewb

Well-Known Member
So I was working on my light and had ussues with the prolimatech PK-3. Problem was it was too cold (60*F in basement) andI was being chinsy with it as I didnt want to run out as had 15 vero29s to do. I am also using only two screws because alpine 11 is too small. I did polish the alpine 11s but without a precision grind i cant say that the surface is perfectly flat. I tried to heat room with propane but was just too cold so I used a heat gun but the heatsinks sucked any warmth out of the cobs. I was unable to get the heatsink warm but now realize I need put the fixture in a room where I can get the heatsinks up to approximately 80*F next time. The vero 29s are also not super stiff. So what hapoened is I would get an uneven cold layer of PK-3 on the back of a Vero29 and I would not getting 100% contact. Verified by removing two after screwing down. Plan is to get another 5g of PK-3 and apply in a warm environment. Wish I had just bought 30g from beginning and put a nice think layer on. I am almost thinking of getting 30g instead of 5g but probably be overkill. I have a couple grams left but doubt it will be enough. Idk. First time using this stuff.

I wish I could get sime locally as I really need to finish this light. Taking way longer than I thought it would.
 

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bondoman

Well-Known Member
avnewb said:
So I was working on my light and had ussues with the prolimatech PK-3. Problem was it was too cold (60*F in basement) andI was being chinsy with it as I didnt want to run out as had 15 vero29s to do. I am also using only two screws because alpine 11 is too small. I did polish the alpine 11s but without a precision grind i cant say that the surface is perfectly flat. I tried to heat room with propane but was just too cold so I used a heat gun but the heatsinks sucked any warmth out of the cobs. I was unable to get the heatsink warm but now realize I need put the fixture in a room where I can get the heatsinks up to approximately 80*F next time. The vero 29s are also not super stiff. So what hapoened is I would get an uneven cold layer of PK-3 on the back of a Vero29 and I would not getting 100% contact. Verified by removing two after screwing down. Plan is to get another 5g of PK-3 and apply in a warm environment. Wish I had just bought 30g from beginning and put a nice think layer on. I am almost thinking of getting 30g instead of 5g but probably be overkill. I have a couple grams left but doubt it will be enough. Idk. First time using this stuff.

I wish I could get sime locally as I really need to finish this light. Taking way longer than I thought it would.
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You really don't need a lot of paste. Just about the size of a grain of rice. Then take a credit card and keep working it each direction. Then just rotate left and right pressing into the final spot. Less is better in this case. Basically the same as CPU's. People used to make the same mistakes with CPU's, a ton of paste dripping all over the place causing inefficient cpu cooling.
 
AquariusPanta

AquariusPanta

Well-Known Member
avnewb said:
So I was working on my light and had ussues with the prolimatech PK-3. Problem was it was too cold (60*F in basement) andI was being chinsy with it as I didnt want to run out as had 15 vero29s to do. I am also using only two screws because alpine 11 is too small. I did polish the alpine 11s but without a precision grind i cant say that the surface is perfectly flat. I tried to heat room with propane but was just too cold so I used a heat gun but the heatsinks sucked any warmth out of the cobs. I was unable to get the heatsink warm but now realize I need put the fixture in a room where I can get the heatsinks up to approximately 80*F next time. The vero 29s are also not super stiff. So what hapoened is I would get an uneven cold layer of PK-3 on the back of a Vero29 and I would not getting 100% contact. Verified by removing two after screwing down. Plan is to get another 5g of PK-3 and apply in a warm environment. Wish I had just bought 30g from beginning and put a nice think layer on. I am almost thinking of getting 30g instead of 5g but probably be overkill. I have a couple grams left but doubt it will be enough. Idk. First time using this stuff.

I wish I could get sime locally as I really need to finish this light. Taking way longer than I thought it would.
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Whoa, that's one big ass light fixture! Lol. Do you think you could hang that up by yourself with all that weight?

Also, did you weld the support bars and heatsinks to the frame? I can't tell from the photo.
 
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avnewb

Well-Known Member
bondoman said:
You really don't need a lot of paste. Just about the size of a grain of rice. Then take a credit card and keep working it each direction. Then just rotate left and right pressing into the final spot. Less is better in this case. Basically the same as CPU's. People used to make the same mistakes with CPU's, a ton of paste dripping all over the place causing inefficient cpu cooling.
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Ya. I think the terms were my problem I will retry with it warmer and hopefully will wirk better. Think the pass just needs to stay warmer and as u said the heatsinks being cild just sucked the heat out if the paste and vero making the paste stiffer/harder/thicker whatever. Will crank the heat when I get home and wait until the whole fixture is above 70deg.

AquariusPanta said:
Whoa, that's one big ass light fixture! Lol. Do you think you could hang that up by yourself with all that weight?

Also, did you weld the support bars and heatsinks to the frame? I can't tell from the photo.
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Fixture is 84" x 39" and will weigh 52.5 lb. Made with U-channel aluminum. I used 1/8" wall thickness with 3/4" leg x 1/2" on long sides and 1/16" wall 1/2" leg x 1/2" on x-beams. Didnt want to overbuild it cause of weight and cost. The framing itself is only 8lbs. All welded together. Heatsinks welded to it. The missing heatsinks will be mounted with wire as CXA3070s already glued to them so cant weld.
27lbs in heatsink w/ fans so total without power supplies is about 35lbs. Seven power supplies @ 1.15kg/2.53lbs = 18lbs plus 0.5 lbs for fan power supplies. Fixture will be mounted with two RAD bike lifts (rated at 100lb each and using paracord) and I can raise it from the floor using the bike lifts. The U channel is tall enough to protect cobs from floor. The side U-channel should also work as a reflector but I really should paint white...i was going to add flashing to it to make a reflector around the whle thing but if i do it will be adter i hang it simenother day. Just need to finish it.
 
AquariusPanta

AquariusPanta

Well-Known Member
avnewb said:
Ya. I think the terms were my problem I will retry with it warmer and hopefully will wirk better. Think the pass just needs to stay warmer and as u said the heatsinks being cild just sucked the heat out if the paste and vero making the paste stiffer/harder/thicker whatever. Will crank the heat when I get home and wait until the whole fixture is above 70deg.



Fixture is 84" x 39" and will weigh 52.5 lb. Made with U-channel aluminum. I used 1/8" wall thickness with 3/4" leg x 1/2" on long sides and 1/16" wall 1/2" leg x 1/2" on x-beams. Didnt want to overbuild it cause of weight and cost. The framing itself is only 8lbs. All welded together. Heatsinks welded to it. The missing heatsinks will be mounted with wire as CXA3070s already glued to them so cant weld.
27lbs in heatsink w/ fans so total without power supplies is about 35lbs. Seven power supplies @ 1.15kg/2.53lbs = 18lbs plus 0.5 lbs for fan power supplies. Fixture will be mounted with two RAD bike lifts (rated at 100lb each and using paracord) and I can raise it from the floor using the bike lifts. The U channel is tall enough to protect cobs from floor. The side U-channel should also work as a reflector but I really should paint white...i was going to add flashing to it to make a reflector around the whle thing but if i do it will be adter i hang it simenother day. Just need to finish it.
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Talk about an HPS1000 killer!!! I wanna see this monster in action as soon as you finish it!

Will you be sharing a grow journal or thread with the use of this monster?

What will you nickname this behemoth of a light fixture?
 
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avnewb

Well-Known Member
This is what I am talking about. It is clear im first pic that the cob is floating on the PK-3.
1424124178152.jpg

This one is a bit better but still clear its not even.

1424124215651.jpg

Possibly would spread on its own once they heat up. I think once I get the hole fixture warm and respread the PK-3 and screw back down there will be better coverage.

Only my second time welding so there ugly but they will work.

1424124592640.jpg

Had to do them all on the floor as it barely fits on my table.

1424124538109.jpg

As it is now I can move fairley easily:

20150216_173438.jpg

But I am concerned about the weight of the drivers. 2.6 lbs I measured doesn't seam like much but in ur hand they are heavy. I did not factor that into my design. When I picked up the jameco box full of them im like oh shit.

So i will make a frame to hold them or something.
 
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Dloomis514

Dloomis514

Well-Known Member
avnewb said:
This is what I am talking about. It is clear im first pic that the cob is floating on the PK-3.
View attachment 3352840

This one is a bit better but still clear its not even.

View attachment 3352841

Possibly would spread on its own once they heat up. I think once I get the hole fixture warm and respread the PK-3 and screw back down there will be better coverage.

Only my second time welding so there ugly but they will work.

View attachment 3352846

Had to do them all on the floor as it barely fits on my table.

View attachment 3352845

As it is now I can move fairley easily:

View attachment 3352858

But I am concerned about the weight of the drivers. 2.6 lbs I measured doesn't seam like much but in ur hand they are heavy. I did not factor that into my design. When I picked up the jameco box full of them im like oh shit.

So i will make a frame to hold them or something.
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How did you decide on that 3-1-3-1-3-1-3 spacing? Why not 2-2-2-2-2-2-2? Thanks
 
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avnewb

Well-Known Member
So heat is not helping but I went ahead and removed the excess PK-3 and screwed back down. I was going to post that I wish I had gone with dif heatsink that would allow 4 screws or that I should have mounted them at an angle to use 4 screws even with corners hanging off (might still be better way to do it) but finally found my feelers gauges and even thou it looks like there is a gap due to flexing of plastic housing of vero 29s from only 2 screws I could not get my smallest feeler gauge under the metal pad as I thought I would be able to (I can get it Unger the plastic) . May still not be perfect but as far as I am concerned I have good contact. At least better than I did with too thick a layer of PK-3.



Dloomis514 said:
How did you decide on that 3-1-3-1-3-1-3 spacing? Why not 2-2-2-2-2-2-2? Thanks
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Missing spots will have my 6 cxa3070s so will be 3x7 when done. they are still in use so have to finish everything I can before the final swap where I will install them in missing spots.


Edit
I also realized that I need to install a new dedicated power wire for this as it will be drawing upwards of 15amps. Yikes.

I also just bought a 8" hyper fan and 39" phresh filter. That should finally fix smell. And super efficient, like 9w at 35%. Probably pull more that that with filter but max is 75w with way too many cfms so i will be running it at min speed for like 450 to 500cuft.
 
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AquariusPanta

AquariusPanta

Well-Known Member
avnewb said:
So heat is not helping but I went ahead and removed the excess PK-3 and screwed back down. I was going to post that I wish I had gone with dif heatsink that would allow 4 screws or that I should have mounted them at an angle to use 4 screws even with corners hanging off (might still be better way to do it) but finally found my feelers gauges and even thou it looks like there is a gap due to flexing of plastic housing of vero 29s from only 2 screws I could not get my smallest feeler gauge under the metal pad as I thought I would be able to (I can get it Unger the plastic) . May still not be perfect but as far as I am concerned I have good contact. At least better than I did with too thick a layer of PK-3.





Missing spots will have my 6 cxa3070s so will be 3x7 when done. they are still in use so have to finish everything I can before the final swap where I will install them in missing spots.


Edit
I also realized that I need to install a new dedicated power wire for this as it will be drawing upwards of 15amps. Yikes.

I also just bought a 8" hyper fan and 39" phresh filter. That should finally fix smell. And super efficient, like 9w at 35%. Probably pull more that that with filter but max is 75w with way too many cfms so i will be running it at min speed for like 450 to 500cuft.
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Either we're both total noobs at applying thermal grease or we're not and the Vero 18-29 COBs are suppose to 'flex' a little with 2x screws holding them down onto the HS.

All 6x of my Vero 18s bow a little on the Arctic Alpine 11 Plus, using PK3.
 
Abiqua

Abiqua

Well-Known Member
AquariusPanta said:
Either we're both total noobs at applying thermal grease or we're not and the Vero 18-29 COBs are suppose to 'flex' a little with 2x screws holding them down onto the HS.

All 6x of my Vero 18s bow a little on the Arctic Alpine 11 Plus, using PK3.
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18 in lbs of torque on the screws....very little... shouldn't be flexing, that means that not all of the area is being contacted, most likely.....:peace:
 
AquariusPanta

AquariusPanta

Well-Known Member
Abiqua said:
18 in lbs of torque on the screws....very little... shouldn't be flexing, that means that not all of the area is being contacted, most likely.....:peace:
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I don't know how to measure torque with a screw driver... I just went ahead and lightly tightened the screws to the best of my judgement, trying different variations of tightness and using my eyesight for the best fit. The flex isn't terrible but can be seen on the sides of the Vero 18 that have no screw holes.

I don't think the ambient temperature was more than 75 degrees F when I applied the PK3.
 
SupraSPL

SupraSPL

Well-Known Member
I agree PK3 is harder to work with when cold. I have been able to get the job done at 65F but havent tried colder. I use a lot more paste than necessary then squeeze the 4 corners for 30-60 secs to thin out the layer, remove air bubbles and to make sure the entire area is covered. It is easier to see if you have full coverage with CXAs than Veros. Then clean up all the excess with alcohol.
 
Abiqua

Abiqua

Well-Known Member
AquariusPanta said:
I don't know how to measure torque with a screw driver... I just went ahead and lightly tightened the screws to the best of my judgement, trying different variations of tightness and using my eyesight for the best fit. The flex isn't terrible but can be seen on the sides of the Vero 18 that have no screw holes.

I don't think the ambient temperature was more than 75 degrees F when I applied the PK3.
Click to expand...
Its very light....like a 1/8 turn or 1/4turn past flush....
 
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avnewb

Well-Known Member
Well its a plastic frame. Its going to flex with only 2 screws. But I did tighten mine tight. What the metal pad under it is doing idk. I feel the issue is the heatsinks are not flat. I measured a few with 0.0015 feeler gauge and seemed ok on some but I can get under on some too so I know its not perfect.

Whatever im done with it.

I could not get a thicker layer of PK-3 like i wanted to ensure no air gaps but come out smooth so just removed most of it and left a film on both surfaces.



Hope its good. im on to soldering so i can finish as things are getting too tall where I won't have room for stretch when I switch.

I should have just stuck with the glue. It works and would have been easier and I wouldn't be second guessing myself...oh well im sure it will be fine but I am curious if the glue would perform better or as good with how much of a PITA this has been.
 
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