Al B. FAQt

So I'm guessing Flytocel is the medium. Looks at lot like perlite. I am using perlite now in those hempys and grodan in my bubbletanks. So I guess I got it.

The medium is Fytocell, a resin foam material. Yep, in plain old pots just as you'd use for soil. Fytocell is more absorbent than perlite, lighter weight and has more air content (40%). Since the Fytocell crumbs will fall out of the drain holes, I pack about 25-50mm of rockwool floc in the bottom of each pot. With such a high air content, Fytocell floats. The RW floc, when wetted, weights down the pots so they don't float.

what is the sure fire way to know the difference between nute burn and temp burn?

Ive read that they tend to present themselves similiarly in the fact that the leaves actually burn with either.

Besides the obvious temp control, how would someone know?

CO2...........is it for the birds? I think Im in the same boat with you on water with people ROing and all kinds of extra work for nothing........

What about CO2? This stuff is costly to setup and use and adds one more reason for people to eyeball people comming in and filling large canisters.

Nute burn and overtemp damage look very different.



Nute burn appears as dying or crispy tissue on leaf tips and margins, all across the plant.



Heat damage will tend to appear on upper parts of the plant first and will appear all across leaf surfaces, but mainly between veins on leaves, not just necrotic tips & margins.

CO2 IS bloody expensive to do right and it's not worth doing unless done right. However, it's not unusual to see a 20-30% increase in productivity in the same time span as opposed to non-CO2 enriched grows.

well.. i went to the hydro shop to get my cool tube, but he didnt have any in stock. so he told me to wait about a week.. and its gonna cost $129.99
(not bad, especially if its gonna knock down those high temps)

so i went online lookin for some and i came across this DIY plan:
DIY: Best Cool Tube
looks like it would work pretty good.. the best part is i already found one of those Bake A Rounds right down the street at a thrift store for $10

so what do i do? wait and pay $100 more, or just go with the DIY plan? i mean its just a 430w hps im coolin... will the efficiency difference be noticable? i like to build things anyway, i think i wanna have a go at this..

so i was doing a little more browsing around here at RIU, reading threads and what not, and ive seen a couple threads that were active today talking about temps and co2... whereas if you properly enrich your grow room with co2, you can maintain temps upwards to 90 degrees...
**this makes a light go off in my head
if i install the cool tube, and have the room maintaining a temp of 85f (29c), and add co2, i wouldnt have to get the AC... Right?

im just exploring options here, so i can make the best decision.


while i was at the hydro shop, i saw this:
Product Information
Co2 Boost is an all natural and cost effective Co2 enrichment. No more dangerous propane tanks, no more heavy Co2 tanks to fill. All you have to do is plug in you Co2 Boost and the all natural ingredients provides your plants with Co2 for a full 60 to 90 days!
$118.00


Does anybody know whats inside that bucket? its not just a big Yeast and sugar bomb is it?

haha
how much co2 does that thing produce? and would it be sufficient for a small room? (16/20 plants)?

or should i get something like this:

CO2 INJECTION SYSTEM with Timer

$159.99

Hydrofarm delivers a CO2 injection system complete and ready-to-use in your garden. Includes pre-set regulator, pre-drilled dispersion hose, .5 to 4.5 CFM flow meter, solenoid and 15-minute/ 24-hour timer. Unit attaches easily to your CO2 tank. Mount the dispersal hose to the ceiling or disperse by directing the outlet hose behind an oscillating fan. Fully automated and safe-to-use. Extra dispersal hosing and high rate flow meter.




---------------
oh.. i also wanted to share this video i came across.. they have alot of information about different types of hydro setups.. maybe it will help lighten your workload at the Al B Faqt just a little
YouTube - Ready-Set-Grow Vol 2 Part 1 Of 7

so what do i do? wait and pay $100 more, or just go with the DIY plan? i mean its just a 430w hps im coolin... will the efficiency difference be noticable? i like to build things anyway, i think i wanna have a go at this..

Click to expand...

The DIY cooltube will work fine. The main difference is the Bake-A-Round is about 100mm dia instead of 150mm. A 1000HPS bottle will fit in a Bake-A-Round but there's only about 10mm clear between the centre bulge of the 1000's envelope and the inner dia of the Bake-A-Round. I can't see any problem with using the DIY flavour with a 400 or 600 but if there's a 1000 in your future, get the commercially made cooltube.

so i was doing a little more browsing around here at RIU, reading threads and what not, and ive seen a couple threads that were active today talking about temps and co2... whereas if you properly enrich your grow room with co2, you can maintain temps upwards to 90 degrees...

**this makes a light go off in my head
if i install the cool tube, and have the room maintaining a temp of 85f (29c), and add co2, i wouldnt have to get the AC... Right?

Click to expand...

29C is the magic number. That's the limit where d9-THC starts to decompose into non-psychoactives like CBD & CBN.

Does anybody know whats inside that bucket? its not just a big Yeast and sugar bomb is it?

Click to expand...

Either that or vinegar and baking soda.

how much co2 does that thing produce? and would it be sufficient for a small room? (16/20 plants)

Click to expand...

That's the thing about bodgy chemical reaction CO2 generators like this- you don't know how much CO2 it's making.

CO2 INJECTION SYSTEM with Timer

$159.99

Hydrofarm delivers a CO2 injection system complete and ready-to-use in your garden. Includes pre-set regulator, pre-drilled dispersion hose, .5 to 4.5 CFM flow meter, solenoid and 15-minute/ 24-hour timer.

Click to expand...

Better, at least you have some clue as to how much CO2 you are introducing into the room. However, this device doesn't meter the CO2 based upon a measurement of the concentration already in the room. It also doesn't control ventilation blowers. With 'dumb' CO2 applicators like this, your exhaust fans can be running at the same time this thing is dispensing CO2, pumping your preciou$ ga$ out of the op soon as it's out of the cylinder. Still a lot of guessing and fiddling, which will be even more variable seasonally. In summer, your exhaust blower will run more often than in winter, throwing off whatever calculations and timer settings you've worked out.

Look for CO2 applicator systems that have metering, measurement and exhaust blower control built in. They sense the level of CO2 and apply as much as is needed, automatically. More exxy of course, but it's the only way to maintain the CO2 concentration accurately and make best use of the ga$ at any time of year.

Al B. Fuct said:

The medium is Fytocell, a resin foam material. Yep, in plain old pots just as you'd use for soil. Fytocell is more absorbent than perlite, lighter weight and has more air content (40%). Since the Fytocell crumbs will fall out of the drain holes, I pack about 25-50mm of rockwool floc in the bottom of each pot. With such a high air content, Fytocell floats. The RW floc, when wetted, weights down the pots so they don't float.

Click to expand...

Cool. What size tray would you recommend for a 400HPS, which is all I have now. 3x3 or 4x4. How many plants to either?

Hey Al, I got a great question. I started a thread about it, but nothing yet. Do you know how to make a DIY Light Mover. (4' track)

Kaosisglobal said:

Cool. What size tray would you recommend for a 400HPS, which is all I have now. 3x3 or 4x4. How many plants to either?

Click to expand...

You can really pack in SoG pruned plants. A 400 is good for about 8 sq ft and you can do as many as 4 SoG plants per sf, so about 32 lollipops max under a 400. I don't pack them in quite as tightly, about 2.6 plants per sf in my flowering area, 23 per 900mm x 900mm tray.

The light pattern from horizontal tube light fixtures is rectangular, about 2.5' x 3.2' is ideal for a 400.

Kaosisglobal said:

Hey Al, I got a great question. I started a thread about it, but nothing yet. Do you know how to make a DIY Light Mover. (4' track)

Click to expand...

I'm not a fan of light movers. They even out growth if the area you're lighting is too large for your lamp, but so does moving plants around a couple times a week.

With light movers, you have a new figure to comtemplate; lux-hours. When the light is over one end of the grow, it's not putting any light on the other. Consequently, with a stationary lamp, you know how many lux (lumens per m^2) you're putting down, but with a light mover, you have to consider how much time the lamp spends over any given part of the grow. Linear light movers also do not evenly distribute their lux-hours. Plants in the middle of the traverse get more lux-hours than the plants on the ends of the traverse. Rotary light movers don't have this fault but require a circular growing space.

Light movers are mechanically rather complex. There's a few ways to accomplish it. Rotary movers have to have an electrical connection to the lamp/s that copes with the constant rotation of the mover, usually requiring what are known as 'slipper ring' connections. Linear movers usually use a motor and a long chain to pull a mounting point back and forth along a track, necessitating traverse limit switches on either end.

Even if I wanted one, I don't think I'd DIY a light mover- and I am really quite mechanically and electrically inclined. I reckon you'd spend as much on DIY as buying a reliable mover.

so sorry that i have to interrupt such an educated path the thread was taking, but it's the new guy again. So, you told me that i could combat my spdrmte infestation by the nicc tea, but i didnt exactly understand what you were saying when you started talking about temp. Is it normal for the buds to be so small four weeks in? I know the spidermites are doing a hell of a job on her but i think she should be a bit bigger. Im using cfl and i know you dont care for them much but i didnt know you when i started my grow... anyway i think that im using 27 watt 6500 cfl, four of them. my lights too bright?
anything i can do organically and cheaply (pref homemade)to boost her as i will be taking a growing hiatus to learn more and set up for a more serious grow next time around. any tips you picked up as a broke ass beginner that you'd care to pass?

much obliged my man.

Hey Al, i notice that my buds had some bolting. I think it was because i kept my room at an average temp of 85-86 F during lights on and my fans and exhaust on 24/7. I had read that if you are using CO2 it was better to keep your room at those temps to use the CO2 more efficiently. I have the regulator with a CO2-2 Atmospheric controller. I think i am going to set the controller for 80F and the t-stat for low speed at 75F. I have the relative humidity set at 55%. Could you check out the pics in my journal and let me know if you think that will make a difference ? Another question i have is that my WW clones turned Hermie and seeded this first batch. Will the seeds turn out all hermies or do i have a 50-50 shot of some fem seeds? The smoke still turned out primo as far as the high and flavor. The buds just are as sticky and the odor isn't as strong as usual. Is that due to the crop getting pollinated ?

KidCreole said:

i didnt exactly understand what you were saying when you started talking about temp.

Click to expand...

What part about temp?

Is it normal for the buds to be so small four weeks in? I know the spidermites are doing a hell of a job on her but i think she should be a bit bigger. Im using cfl and i know you dont care for them much but i didnt know you when i started my grow...

Click to expand...

If you have mites and are attempting to flower with CFLs, yeah, you're right on schedule.

anyway i think that im using 27 watt 6500 cfl, four of them. my lights too bright?

Click to expand...

umm, you ARE kidding- right?

The sooner you rid yourself of the CFLs and replace them with a small HPS, the sooner you'll get some decent buds.

anything i can do organically and cheaply (pref homemade)to boost her as i will be taking a growing hiatus to learn more and set up for a more serious grow next time around. any tips you picked up as a broke ass beginner that you'd care to pass?

Click to expand...

yeah, go order a 400HPS kit from HTG for $119. Even cheaper than buying and converting a 250 HPS security light from a hdwe store for use as a grow light.

stickyicky77 said:

Hey Al, i notice that my buds had some bolting. I think it was because i kept my room at an average temp of 85-86 F during lights on

Click to expand...

I think so too.

I had read that if you are using CO2 it was better to keep your room at those temps to use the CO2 more efficiently.

Click to expand...

Yep, 29C is the usual recommendation for a CO2 enriched grow.

I have the regulator with a CO2-2 Atmospheric controller. I think i am going to set the controller for 80F and the t-stat for low speed at 75F. I have the relative humidity set at 55%.

Click to expand...

ok

Could you check out the pics in my journal and let me know if you think that will make a difference ?

Click to expand...

You're using Aerogardens?

OK, here's what you do. Get rid of the Aerogardens, buy a 400HPS kit from HTG for $119 and stop messing with CO2 until you do. CO2 with a fluoro grow is like running your moped on nitromethane.

Another question i have is that my WW clones turned Hermie and seeded this first batch. Will the seeds turn out all hermies or do i have a 50-50 shot of some fem seeds?

Click to expand...

Not sure, that's from the breeding department. I sprout beans, grow mums and clone off them forever, not too much sex going on in my op. I believe you'll get an assortment of (mostly) unviable seeds, herm & F. Check with potroast for a 2nd opin.

The smoke still turned out primo as far as the high and flavor. The buds just are as sticky and the odor isn't as strong as usual. Is that due to the crop getting pollinated ?

Click to expand...

Yep, once the plants are pollinated, they figure their job is done and they stop making resin & start working on maturing the seeds.

oh, and- work on your ventilation so that the room temp comes down to the intake air temp. If you have 25C air to draw in, if you have effective ventilation, your op will stay pretty close to 25C. A cooltube on the 400 you're going to buy will work wonders.

No AL, the Aerogardens are only for vegging my mother plants that i take my clones off of. If you look a little closer in the last pics you will see my 3x3 flood and drain tray with a 400W HPS with a air cooled hood and E- ballast, a CO2 system with the Atmospheric controller. I also have central A/C and the exhaust is a 6" with a carbon filter. They are in 2 separate grow tents. The AG's are just used to vegg my mothers and the second one with the flood and drain and HPS for flowering. On the last page will can see the buds flowering.

Ah, ok! That's actually about the only reasonable use I can think of for an Aerogarden, but there's sure cheaper ways to get the job done!



ouch, high temps.. looking pretty cooked. I think your 85F figure is low, these look like they've had a trip through the Mojave in August. If you have central aircon and an aircooled hood, how the heck did this happen? Does your hood source and dump air outside the room's airmass?

I also don't think the LED indicator lights on the CO2 controller caused your hermaphrodism. Not generally enough light to do that in a couple of indicator LEDs, but fair enough for taping them over. Peeking in the grow during lights off (while providing enough light for you to see) is a usual cause of hermaphrodism. You're not a peeker, are you?

Yes the exhaust just dumps out of the top of the grow tent. The central a/c stays set at constant 74-70 F 24/7. The lights on temp in the tent stays at 85 F and i have a good digital thermometer that records high and low temps and RH. The RH stays at 55 % RH and that's what i have the Atmospheric controller set at. The room is located over a unconditioned space. We have out door ambient temps of 98-100 F during the day and 85-90 F at night in the climate that i am in. The room that the tent is in is fairly well insulated but some heat does rise from the space below. The room that the tent is in stays 76F during the day and 72-70 F at night. I think that i may have gotten my hood a little too close to the top of the plants and had the Atmospheric controller set at 86 F to bring on the exhaust on in high speed of 225 CFM's and a attic fan t-stat set at 80F to run in low. I think i am going to change the settings to 80 F to bring on the exhaust in high speed and 75 F for low speed on the next grow. Could some of that be wind burn from my osculating fans on 24/7 ? I think the WW mother was a hermi , so i chopped them all and made some decent bubble out of them.

stickyicky77 said:

Yes the exhaust just dumps out of the top of the grow tent. The central a/c stays set at constant 74-70 F 24/7. The lights on temp in the tent stays at 85 F

Click to expand...

Ok, you have (max) 76F air to draw in, but the room temps are not coming down there. Need to work on ventilation throughflow efficiency.

I'm wondering about this air cooled hood. Is the body of it getting hot and transferring heat into the room airmass? If so, there's not enough air being drawn through the hood.

Hey Al I had another question about flooding my growing medium.

I am going to be using small Grodan rockwool growcubes. Should i flood them once a day or more? I am not exactly familiar growing with this medium.

Al B. Fuct said:

Ok, you have (max) 76F air to draw in, but the room temps are not coming down there. Need to work on ventilation throughflow efficiency.

I'm wondering about this air cooled hood. Is the body of it getting hot and transferring heat into the room airmass? If so, there's not enough air being drawn through the hood.

Click to expand...

I just double checked the settings on my controller and the attic fan t-stat. My stoned ass actually had the attic fan t-stat set at 84F to run in low speed and and the atmospheric controller set at 86F to run in high. The RH is at 55% and the CO2 is set to go on every 120 minutes for 15 minutes. No wonder they were bolting. I guess i must have been smoking on some bubble that day when i was adjusting the attic fan t-stat...lol.. I make some pretty good bubble hash out of my scrap cuttings from my mother plants. I don't let any leaf or cuttings go to waste. Its all about the tricromes. The 6" centrifugal duct fan draws 225 CFM in high speed through the hood. You can see the grow tent walls suck in a bit when it kicks into high speed buy-the-homebox.com - universal indoor grow box kit. I am sure there is plenty air flow through the hood. I think the problem was that it was running in low speed most of the time. The light didn't feel that hot though. I put the back of my hand under the light at the canopy. I noticed that the fan would run in low speed most of the time and would cycle in high mostly towards the end of the day when it was the hottest out side, which appeared normal. My wife has bad habit of closing the door to that room and the A/C can only pull the return air out of the room from under the gap at the bottom of the door when it was closed. I am sure that did not help the temps any. I think that setting the attic fan to run in low speed at 75 F instead of 84 F and the main controller set to 80 F to run in high should make a big difference. I guess i will find out next time. I just thought it was odd that the buds bolted and i am using CO2 and the room temps stayed between 84-86F. I thought that the CO2 would allow you to run those kind of temps without that happening.