Al B. FAQt

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CustomHydro

Well-Known Member
Hey Al,

I bought Canna Nutes both Substra Vega A & B. However, I got the variety for soft water and I do believe my water is actually hard. It is my understanding the difference is the calcium in the water...

Do you think this will significantly affect my grow?

Guaranteed analysis from the back says Total Nitrogen 4% Sodium Potash 2% Calcium 4% Iron .02% Chelated Iron .02% from the "A" bottle.
Your water is hard, so that means it contains minerals. The Canna for soft water has extra Calcium and Magnesium, along with other trace minerals (I believe) to make up for the soft water lacking them. I think it is better that you got the soft water formula and have hard water than the other way around...
Not too sure when you hit the point of too much ca/mg though.
 

speedhabit

Well-Known Member
I'd use a std 'magnetic' ballast. There's no general advantage to electronic ballasts, they are much more costly and can't last as long as the old tech ballasts. A remote mountable ballast is important; you can put it outside the room's airmass so your vent system doesn't have to shift that heat out of the room.

Would this ballast do?
High Tech Garden Supply

What do you recommend?

Ummm? No advantage to ...im sure you meant digital because all ballasts use electricity....

Anyway, digital ballasts are silent. This is a HUGE advantage. Digital Ballasts use less electricity that is a HUGE advantage. Shit man, they even burn the bulbs brighter for longer then conventional magnetic s. Explain yourself and this really bad piece of advice
 

epoplive

Active Member
hey, was wondering if you guys could give some advice on transplanting clones to hydroton. It seems like some of my clones arent doing so well since putting them into my 12-12 system from the clone box. Would the chance of survival increase if I used some cfl's for the first couple days on 24-0 instead of my 600 watt hps on 12-12?
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
noise coming from the ballast is almsot ear piercing with this loud ass buzzing noise. should we return it, will the buzzing noise go away?
Ballast noise is caused by rattling laminations in the ballast core. This is a mark of a poor quality or defective ballast. It will not fix itself.

Return it but make sure you get to listen to the replacement before you take it home. They may be made with inferior quality ballast inductors.

My ballasts are 10 years old and are dead silent.

it's normal though for the lamp itself it make a low sounding hum right?
My 1000s make a small hum when just starting up but quiet down after about 30 sec.

Hey Al,

I bought Canna Nutes both Substra Vega A & B. However, I got the variety for soft water and I do believe my water is actually hard. It is my understanding the difference is the calcium in the water...

Do you think this will significantly affect my grow?
I don't think it'll make much difference. The soft water version will include more Ca and perhaps more Mg than the hard water version.

Your water is hard, so that means it contains minerals. The Canna for soft water has extra Calcium and Magnesium, along with other trace minerals (I believe) to make up for the soft water lacking them. I think it is better that you got the soft water formula and have hard water than the other way around...
Not too sure when you hit the point of too much ca/mg though.
yeah, wot 'e said. ;)

Ummm? No advantage to ...im sure you meant digital because all ballasts use electricity....
Spoken just like someone who is not an electronics engineer.

Lucky you, I'm a BSEE- pull up a chair and I'll explain it for you.

"Digital" is a marketing hype term and really a bit of a misnomer when applied to ballasts.

Ballasts are current limiters; that's all they do. When I say 'electronic' as opposed to 'magnetic' or more correctly 'inductive' ballast, I am referring to the difference in the way that the current is regulated. 'Electronic' refers to active circuitry used to control current as opposed to exploiting the characters of a combination of passive components i.e. coils & capacitors.

Electronic, or 'digital' ballasts, as their marketeers would like to have you refer to them (since it sounds so 'high tech') limit current by way of some SCRs or triacs which do the actual current throttling to the lamp tube, but which themselves are operated by control circuitry, which may (or may not) happen to do some digital wave shaping. The term 'digital' is often used in a broad an misleading sense; I have a pair of headphones that are labelled 'DIGITAL' in big gold letters... but they are simply voice coils, magnets and diaphragms, just like Marconi's own 'cans.' Nothing 'digital' about them That they're usable with a digital audio player was enough for the maker to slap the DIGITAL!! word on them, despite the signal being used to drive any headhone being very, very analogue.

Inductive or 'magnetic' ballasts limit current by way of a coil of copper wire on a laminated iron core along with a capacitor of a certain value for a particular sized HPS lamp tube.

In other words, the 'electronic' ballast controls current by using what amounts to an amplifier (you technerds will know the old adage- it's either an oscillator, an amplifier or a filter) as opposed to taking advantage of the physical properties of an LC (inductance-capacitance) network.

Anyway, digital ballasts are silent. This is a HUGE advantage.
They can't be any more silent than a properly operating inductive ballast. Only a defective inductive ballast makes any noise.

Digital Ballasts use less electricity that is a HUGE advantage.
Earlier this year, I tested a Lumatek 600 side by side with a std ballast, driving a GE Lucagrow 600HPS tube. The Lumatek drew a whopping 9% less power from AC mains than the std ballast, owing to the lack of eddy current losses inherent in an inductive ballast.

9% savings is not terribly significant in terms of operation, unless you are using a large number of ballasts and 9% savings allows you to run all the lighting you need without exceeding the service current capacity. While electronic ballasts are coming down in price of late, it will take a long, long time to recover the difference in purchase price through the power savings difference.

Shit man, they even burn the bulbs brighter for longer then conventional magnetic s.
False. This is marketing hype. Remember, a ballast is a current limiter. The lamp tube is designed to tolerate a certain amount of current, doesn't matter how you throttle it, just as long as you do throttle it suiting the power rating for that lamp. The only way to make an HPS lamp make more luminous output than rated is to drop more current across it than it is rated for. Doing so will increase luminous output but will shorten lamp life, could be dramatically if it's really excessive.

Back to my side-by-side comparison of the Lumatek vs a std ballast. I used a lux meter to measure the luminous output of the lamp tube, as it was operating on either ballast. The luminous output was exactly the same with either ballast. I also measured the currents to the lamp tube from the output of either ballast. Unremarkably, it was the same for both ballasts.

Explain yourself and this really bad piece of advice
I've explained myself. Now that you understand what's going on, don't you feel a bit silly for calling my advice 'really bad?'

hey, was wondering if you guys could give some advice on transplanting clones to hydroton. It seems like some of my clones arent doing so well since putting them into my 12-12 system from the clone box.
What's the problem?
 

BigBudBalls

Well-Known Member
I've explained myself. Now that you understand what's going on, don't you feel a bit silly for calling my advice 'really bad?'
Al, was that 9% drop on the whole system or just ballast? If the whole system, thats impressive. My 400W draws 450W. Dropping 9% makes it 409.5. For the ballasts, thats a 80% drop. (The marketing hype on the power numbers)

A for the lights numbers, the 'extra light' is as the bulb ages supposedly. But we usually don't care about that since we change bulbs out long before they go.

Another perk to inductive is that you can run out and get a replacement part rather easy. Digitals, not so much. I have a couple rework stations here, but desoldering PTH sucks! Granted they (inductive) are pretty rock solid to start with. I'd much rather fix via wire nuts then bench work.

If I was to get a digital, I'd make sure if it fails, the co will send out a new replacement one before getting the old one back. Even if out of warranty. I'd rather not be out a lamp for a few weeks. They do fail. They are a LOT better, but still fail.
 

Gimme

Active Member
Just finished reading the whole thread. Took me 3 days, and I only read Al's posts starting on page 10.

Can't believe how many times the same questions keep getting asked over and over and over... come on people.

Here are my questions:

1. What are your thoughts on soilless mixes, like Sunshine? I would assume it is more like growing in soil since I just finished my first grow using it, and I watered every other day (or when pot was light). Do you use H2O2 with this type of medium?

2. What are your thoughts on regenerating a plant? Not sure if that's the right term. What I mean is, after a plant is done flowering, you trim half of it and put it back in the veg room. My dealer has done this many times with success.

Reason I ask about regenerating is because there is one plant from my first grow that is awesome, and I didn't take clones from it and would like to keep growing that string.

3. You suggest that if one has an air conditioned room and provide CO2, that there's no need to exhaust air out of the room. Do you use the "Outdoor Vent / Exhaust" feature on the unit or just recycle the same air? I'm talking about a window/wall unit, like this one. What about carbon scrubbers? Do you just put it inside the room with an inline fan attached to it?


Thanks.
 

DR. VonDankenstine

Well-Known Member
I run the Global Greenhouse 600 digi's and they seem to work well up to this point. I have as backup my old 1000 and 400 magn.-I have found that the digi's run allot cooler and have zero noise. My magnetics didn't have a rattle but both have a loud hum and produce allot of heat. I love the weight and size of the digi's---(about the same size as a car amp.). They say 20% less power consumption than magn. But I believe your tests AL and 5 to 10% sounds about right. The 600's ran me $200.00---I don't know the current costs of magnetic 600's. Anyway I'm soo ready for winter---I've had enough of summer and the heat. Take care.
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
Al, was that 9% drop on the whole system or just ballast?

If I recall correctly, it was 465W vs 425W out of the mains.

A for the lights numbers, the 'extra light' is as the bulb ages supposedly. But we usually don't care about that since we change bulbs out long before they go.
Yep, I didn't cover that 'more starts per lamp life' claim, but you're quite right, that's both true and insignificant if you relamp annually per most horticultural HPS mfr guidelines. The electronic ballast doesn't overcurrent the tube so heavily on strike, so you get more starts. Important if you're a city council running a few thousand streetlights, not so important for you & I.

Lumatek say on their site: "up to 30% more lumens output than some old style magnetic ballasts." I don't know which 'old style' ballasts they're talking about but I measured identical luminous intensity from either the Lumatek or an ordinary CWA inductive ballast.
Another perk to inductive is that you can run out and get a replacement part rather easy. Digitals, not so much. I have a couple rework stations here, but desoldering PTH sucks! Granted they (inductive) are pretty rock solid to start with. I'd much rather fix via wire nuts then bench work.
Yeah, my contention with durability is that a cap & a coil of copper wire on an iron core is inherently going to be more durable than semiconductor junctions and soldered connections. Inductive ballasts last approximately forever in no small part because they're stone-age simple.

If I was to get a digital, I'd make sure if it fails, the co will send out a new replacement one before getting the old one back. Even if out of warranty. I'd rather not be out a lamp for a few weeks. They do fail.They are a LOT better, but still fail.
Yep, good points all, but it's still a good idea to have a spare. I pay $170 for 1000CWA ballasts. Having a new spare unit on the shelf is stupidly cheap insurance, so I keep one of those and also a spare 400 ballast for the mum area.
 

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
Just finished reading the whole thread. Took me 3 days, and I only read Al's posts starting on page 10.

Can't believe how many times the same questions keep getting asked over and over and over... come on people.

Here are my questions:

1. What are your thoughts on soilless mixes, like Sunshine? I would assume it is more like growing in soil since I just finished my first grow using it, and I watered every other day (or when pot was light). Do you use H2O2 with this type of medium?

2. What are your thoughts on regenerating a plant? Not sure if that's the right term. What I mean is, after a plant is done flowering, you trim half of it and put it back in the veg room. My dealer has done this many times with success.

3. You suggest that if one has an air conditioned room and provide CO2, that there's no need to exhaust air out of the room. Do you use the "Outdoor Vent / Exhaust" feature on the unit or just recycle the same air? I'm talking about a window/wall unit, like this one. What about carbon scrubbers? Do you just put it inside the room with an inline fan attached to it?


Thanks.
Are you sure you really read all of his posts?

1. You ask about H2O2 with this mixture: Formulated with Canadian Sphagnum peat moss, coarse grade perlite, gypsum, Dolomitic lime, and our long-lasting wetting agent.

Now, I would think that the peat moss would pretty much eliminate the use of H2O2 from that point because it is an organic but I could be wrong.

2. What would the purpose be of re-vegging a plant when you have perfectly good clones all of uniform size to put into production? I mean you could do it but should you?

3. You would recirculate the room air and have no exhaust from the grow room. The plants would create oxygen and use up the CO2 provided. There would be no transfer of air out of the grow room so no need for a filter.
 

BigBudBalls

Well-Known Member
Hey Al, happen to know the 'style name' of the ballast to lamp socket?

If the Aus is like the US versions its 2 round and one flat prongs.

I want to modify my ballast and cord set so its more standard (I hate proprietary stuff.)

I came up with HYL, but Tyco/Ampheol doesn't know it.
 

VictorVIcious

Well-Known Member
Are you sure you really read all of his posts?

1. You ask about H2O2 with this mixture: Formulated with Canadian Sphagnum peat moss, coarse grade perlite, gypsum, Dolomitic lime, and our long-lasting wetting agent.

Now, I would think that the peat moss would pretty much eliminate the use of H2O2 from that point because it is an organic but I could be wrong.

2. What would the purpose be of re-vegging a plant when you have perfectly good clones all of uniform size to put into production? I mean you could do it but should you?
Did you...... read his post? Stated pretty clearly, neglected to take those good clones all of uniform size to put into production. Have you tried this? VV
 

Gimme

Active Member
VV

My dealer has been growing for 7 years and has done this many times with success. He tells me that there are some strings which are a pain in the ass to regenerate (Blueberry for example) but others do revert back to vegetative state without any problem and/or turning into hermies. Like these two beautiful Mother's Finest he has at the moment. Reverted without a problem.

The hard part is leaving half the buds on the plant when you know that it's the best one out of your whole crop. :weed:
 

fitzyno1

Well-Known Member
Hey Al, happen to know the 'style name' of the ballast to lamp socket?

If the Aus is like the US versions its 2 round and one flat prongs.

I want to modify my ballast and cord set so its more standard (I hate proprietary stuff.)

I came up with HYL, but Tyco/Ampheol doesn't know it.
BBB i have these IEC 3-pin power plug on my Ballast/reflectors, are they the standard plugs?
c72f_2.jpg
 

epoplive

Active Member
since a picture's worth a thousand words...here's what's going on...


< removed giant pictures of sopping wet little plants >

(please attach your pictures to the post, and a thumbnail will show)


I transplanted them from the ez cloner straight to the hydroton 2 days ago(no rockwool)
 

VictorVIcious

Well-Known Member
VV

My dealer has been growing for 7 years and has done this many times with success. He tells me that there are some strings which are a pain in the ass to regenerate (Blueberry for example) but others do revert back to vegetative state without any problem and/or turning into hermies. Like these two beautiful Mother's Finest he has at the moment. Reverted without a problem.

The hard part is leaving half the buds on the plant when you know that it's the best one out of your whole crop. :weed:
Sorry, I didn't mean to be asking you that, I was asking if N whatever was qualified to speak on that subject not the one he wanted to talk about. I have a MerriStem, its over three feet tall, its in the front of my grow area to remind me of the one I didn't save, it was one of the first five plants I had. The others were satavias, all were bag seed. This plant didn't seem to be a great plant, it never got over 4' tall no matter what I did, produced over 2 oz of over dried bud, like I said I was new, and I didn't save it or clone it. I have not saved a plant like that, I know it can be done, it does take a long time, like three months maybe longer before you will get a good clone off of it. If you are not sure what strain it is and you want to save it please be my guest, I took 40 clones off plants that had been in flowering for 6 weeks or longer, when I figured out what I lost by not cloning that plant, it is a learning experience, you will talk to that plant, you will be friends. Do it !!! VV:lol:
 

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
Sorry, I didn't mean to be asking you that, I was asking if N whatever was qualified to speak on that subject not the one he wanted to talk about. I have a MerriStem, its over three feet tall, its in the front of my grow area to remind me of the one I didn't save, it was one of the first five plants I had. The others were satavias, all were bag seed. This plant didn't seem to be a great plant, it never got over 4' tall no matter what I did, produced over 2 oz of over dried bud, like I said I was new, and I didn't save it or clone it. I have not saved a plant like that, I know it can be done, it does take a long time, like three months maybe longer before you will get a good clone off of it. If you are not sure what strain it is and you want to save it please be my guest, I took 40 clones off plants that had been in flowering for 6 weeks or longer, when I figured out what I lost by not cloning that plant, it is a learning experience, you will talk to that plant, you will be friends. Do it !!! VV:lol:
The question was redundant. If he only had a plant to re-veg then since there is only one option it is logical to do so. He already stated knowledge that it would work.

For a continual op however, it would make no sense to re-veg the plants.
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
Can't believe how many times the same questions keep getting asked over and over and over... come on people.
I think we're (again) up against the practical size limit of a discussion forum thread. Same thing happened in https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/6592-get-harvest-every-2-weeks.html where you just could not expect ppl to trudge through 190 pages of posts. I could start a new thread but the same questions would get repeated. All I can ask is that folks do their due diligence and read broadly before asking queries here.

1. What are your thoughts on soilless mixes, like Sunshine? I would assume it is more like growing in soil since I just finished my first grow using it, and I watered every other day (or when pot was light). Do you use H2O2 with this type of medium?
With the peat & lime, this is mix not suitable for use as a medium in a recirculating hydroponic system. The peat is not compatible with H2O2 and the lime will shift the pH.

2. What are your thoughts on regenerating a plant? Not sure if that's the right term. What I mean is, after a plant is done flowering, you trim half of it and put it back in the veg room. My dealer has done this many times with success.
Sure, you can reveg a plant after flowering, but it's not the most desirable practise. It takes about 6-8 weeks to return the plant to vegetative growth mode (pruning back the mixed veg/flower habit growth that will appear in the process) before the revegged plant can be used as a mum or have enough new veg matter so it can be flowered and will have a decent yield. Old plants also tend to get rootbound and may have picked up some gnats in the rootmass. Revegged plants are poor yielders when flowered. It's much more productive and time-efficient to just keep mother plants and do a fresh batch of cuttings when you need new plants.

Reason I ask about regenerating is because there is one plant from my first grow that is awesome, and I didn't take clones from it and would like to keep growing that string.
You've cited one of the few cases where the heroics of revegging may be warranted. It can be done, but it takes a long, long time, in relative terms. In this case, you'd reveg until the growth returns to pure veg habit then get some cuttings, which you'll use to establish some new mother plants.

3. You suggest that if one has an air conditioned room and provide CO2, that there's no need to exhaust air out of the room. Do you use the "Outdoor Vent / Exhaust" feature on the unit or just recycle the same air?
If you have a proper CO2 system (tank/reg/controller), you just continuously recycle the same airmass. The 'vent/exhaust' feature on small window units only introduces a very small amount of outdoor air into the air conditioned space, so that vent feature won't be useful for exchanging the airmass; CO2 will be a must in such situation.
What about carbon scrubbers? Do you just put it inside the room with an inline fan attached to it?
Carbon filters are often fairly large. It may be useful to put the thing outside the room and push air from the op into it. You can arrange the system to have the filter inside the room if you like, just takes up room in the op which you may or may not have to spare. In any case, you'll need a centrifugal blower when you are using a carbon filter.

I run the Global Greenhouse 600 digi's and they seem to work well up to this point.
Yep, an electronic ballast will definitely light up an HPS bottle, but will it do it for 10 years?

I have as backup my old 1000 and 400 magn.
Smart move, keep those (and matching spare tubes) handy.

I have found that the digi's run allot cooler and have zero noise. My magnetics didn't have a rattle but both have a loud hum and produce allot of heat.
Yep, the heat comes from eddy currents in the iron core laminations. However, it doesn't matter how hot a ballast runs if you locate it outside the room's airmass.

Loose laminations are the cause of the hmmmmm. High quality ballast inductor laminations are often bolted and the inductor dipped in shellac to keep the laminations from vibrating, some even have a few small weld beads across the lams to hold them still. When buying ballasts, you gotta listen to them before taking them home.

I love the weight and size of the digi's---(about the same size as a car amp.).
I guess that's important if you gotta move them often...! :D
They say 20% less power consumption than magn. But I believe your tests AL and 5 to 10% sounds about right.
Count on sellers of anything to make their case look as good as possible. Comparisons are most often made against the worst performing competitive device.

The 600's ran me $200.00---I don't know the current costs of magnetic 600's.
I can get them for $80.05/ea. Local price on a Lumatek 600 is $247. The $166.15 difference will buy 1107 kWh @ 0.15/kWh. That 1107kWh is good for a bit more than 1846 running hours for a 600. That's about 6 months worth of 12/12 flowering operation.

Now, I would think that the peat moss would pretty much eliminate the use of H2O2 from that point because it is an organic but I could be wrong.
Yep, I'm with you.

3. You would recirculate the room air and have no exhaust from the grow room. The plants would create oxygen and use up the CO2 provided. There would be no transfer of air out of the grow room so no need for a filter.
Quite so.

I don't have clones of that plant.
I HATE it when that happens! :(

Hey Al, happen to know the 'style name' of the ballast to lamp socket?
Nope, sorry.

If the Aus is like the US versions its 2 round and one flat prongs.
I don't know what they're using on US market ballasts, but this is how they are made for Aus:



The ballast to lamp connector has a round earthing pin to prevent some bright spark from plugging their lamp lead straight into the mains.

I want to modify my ballast and cord set so its more standard (I hate proprietary stuff.)
Easy to do, just make sure whatever connector you use can handle the ~1.5-4kV pulse the ignitor sends down the line to the lamp.

VV

My dealer has been growing for 7 years and has done this many times with success.
Sure, you can definitely do it, but it's definitely heroic. You would not want to make revegging part of your usual growing plan, rather it should be done only in emergencies, where you would otherwise lose that DNA.

The hard part is leaving half the buds on the plant when you know that it's the best one out of your whole crop.
Ah... if you're going to reveg, take off all the buds, leave the fan leaves.

since a picture's worth a thousand words...here's what's going on...
These look very badly overwatered. How often are you flooding?
 

epoplive

Active Member
It's a drip system, not a flood system, but the drip is constant...i figured that was fine since there was no rockwool and the hydroton doesnt hold much water. What would you suggest for a watering schedule?
 
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