Advantages of ebb and flow over aeroponics

Drumfounded

Well-Known Member
Wow, lots of stuff here that baffles me. I have built many different systems over the last few years and just not seeing what you guys are with the difference between the two. I think the terminology is the first issue. True aero is not a fountain pump and sprayers, which is what I run. True aero is setup with a minumum of 60 psig and mist heads with droplets measured in microns. PH with my sprayers has been more stable, nute uptake seems to be less efficient than E/F with the need to run higher ec. Res size should be based on stability rather than whats needed to achieve a cycle be it flood or spray IMO. As for the use of grow media, they both require something, don't they? I used net pots and hydroton for both. Plant growth for me is hard to judge due to it being my first run but its preforming well. Root development is great. Also I have not had a nozzle plug after the first start up but I think picking the proper nutes helps. I have mixed thoughts about what is better and may go back to E/F. Roots are my main issue now, trying to keep them out of lower res is a problem for me. Any thoughts or tips would be a help, thanks. Also I felt rich this run and decided to try a new nutrient regime, seeing if my cheap A + B nutes preformed as good as a more pricey brand. I chose Aqua Flakes in a side by side grow. The Aqua Flakes plants are a 1/3rd bigger with more side branching. But...... They are pricey!!!! Taste will also be a factor.
I'm really starting to think I simply made a lot of newbie mistakes with the diy 'aero'. I know it's not true aero but I at least bought high pressure mist heads and a 540gph pump, lol! Also, that grow was with some bagseed. My ebb grow was with three week old clones from a friend.
Glad to hear you're doing well with your setup! Definitely interested to see your results if you end up doing a side by side.
I wonder if you could use something like a tub drain strainer to keep the roots out? Or make something that would be the same effect but finer, using a screen maybe.
 

Drumfounded

Well-Known Member
Wow, lots of stuff here that baffles me. I have built many different systems over the last few years and just not seeing what you guys are with the difference between the two. I think the terminology is the first issue. True aero is not a fountain pump and sprayers, which is what I run. True aero is setup with a minumum of 60 psig and mist heads with droplets measured in microns. PH with my sprayers has been more stable, nute uptake seems to be less efficient than E/F with the need to run higher ec. Res size should be based on stability rather than whats needed to achieve a cycle be it flood or spray IMO. As for the use of grow media, they both require something, don't they? I used net pots and hydroton for both. Plant growth for me is hard to judge due to it being my first run but its preforming well. Root development is great. Also I have not had a nozzle plug after the first start up but I think picking the proper nutes helps. I have mixed thoughts about what is better and may go back to E/F. Roots are my main issue now, trying to keep them out of lower res is a problem for me. Any thoughts or tips would be a help, thanks. Also I felt rich this run and decided to try a new nutrient regime, seeing if my cheap A + B nutes preformed as good as a more pricey brand. I chose Aqua Flakes in a side by side grow. The Aqua Flakes plants are a 1/3rd bigger with more side branching. But...... They are pricey!!!! Taste will also be a factor.
Woah, I need to stop posting things while I'm high. You ARE doing a side by side! That's awesome man. 1/3 bigger!? That's quite a difference. Are they looking similar as far as color and vigor? I have so many experiments I want to try but right now it's just a waiting game. So pardon me while I get excited for you, lol!
 

waterdawg

Well-Known Member
LOL, well I do two trays at a time and shits expensive!!! But same color, not as much side branching.
 

TheChemist77

Well-Known Member
Next run Ill pick a mid priced one to compare
in my expierience, ebb n flow worked great w/ 4'' rockwool and could easily get 3-4' plants, but i switched to DWC because ive found bigger roots =bigger yields. only use aero for clones, but if ur roots are getting bigger w. aero u may get bigger yields hope this helps...never tried the flakes but heard good things but seriously the cheaper stuff isnt always what u may think, the cheaper nutes may surprise u and save u money in the end..
 

TheChemist77

Well-Known Member
Next run Ill pick a mid priced one to compare
if you can do a side by side compare w/ the flakes on 1 side and GH maxi bloom on the other and give me the results id apreaciate it..as i said earlier im done doing side by sides as they wasted alot of cash on high priced nutes just to prove the cheaper maxi always prevailed. but if u want to do some compares please get back to me w/ ur results...i can tell u 1 thing is for sure foxfarms foiliar pro beat out advanced hands down and maxi beat em both
 

waterdawg

Well-Known Member
Thats the plan! As I said I was pretty happy with my previous nutes but the flakes are doing better so yes I will keep looking. The flakes are $49 for a litre of a + b which is almost 4x the price of what I've been using lol. My grows are on the quick schedule with 20-30 day veg from seed and the sprayers seem to perform better than previous systems re plant growth but its only the first run
 

TheChemist77

Well-Known Member
Thats the plan! As I said I was pretty happy with my previous nutes but the flakes are doing better so yes I will keep looking. The flakes are $49 for a litre of a + b which is almost 4x the price of what I've been using lol. My grows are on the quick schedule with 20-30 day veg from seed and the sprayers seem to perform better than previous systems re plant growth but its only the first run
all from seeds?? no clones?? if u do a true compare u have to use the same strain or clones in each run only a nute diference..and a seed really needs to be at least a month old before u clone to have a mature plant/clone to get its full genetic potential.. but im sure u know all this ...u seem to know what ur doing..how long u been growing??
 

waterdawg

Well-Known Member
40 years lol. But in water for only 3 years. As for clones I havent found a plant that I want to clone yet, still searching lol. But I do run the same strain when comparing variables. Not a true scientific comparison but tells me enough to know ya or nay! I can tell enough with the trays to know whats doing better re nutes and a few other things. But still learning lots!!!!
 

waterdawg

Well-Known Member
I'm really starting to think I simply made a lot of newbie mistakes with the diy 'aero'. I know it's not true aero but I at least bought high pressure mist heads and a 540gph pump, lol! Also, that grow was with some bagseed. My ebb grow was with three week old clones from a friend.
Glad to hear you're doing well with your setup! Definitely interested to see your results if you end up doing a side by side.
I wonder if you could use something like a tub drain strainer to keep the roots out? Or make something that would be the same effect but finer, using a screen maybe.
I was thinking I should have kept the screen that came with the shower drain lol. I will try hanging a fine mesh on the bottom of the drain and see what happens. I cant get the lid up in the upper tray at all now just no play in the roots. Some sort of false bottom perhaps??? I just may go back to my previous rig (ebb/flo, nft, kinda thing) as it produced great plants as well. This method seems to produce great plants with stability but a few things I'm still on the fence about. The amount of nutes used is an issue due to higher EC needed. Root tangles are a bitch. I'm sure there are a few things I could improve on but again the last system worked well.
 

Drumfounded

Well-Known Member
I was thinking I should have kept the screen that came with the shower drain lol. I will try hanging a fine mesh on the bottom of the drain and see what happens. I cant get the lid up in the upper tray at all now just no play in the roots. Some sort of false bottom perhaps??? I just may go back to my previous rig (ebb/flo, nft, kinda thing) as it produced great plants as well. This method seems to produce great plants with stability but a few things I'm still on the fence about. The amount of nutes used is an issue due to higher EC needed. Root tangles are a bitch. I'm sure there are a few things I could improve on but again the last system worked well.
I haven't even completed my first grow and I've already come to terms with the fact that my setup could always use improvement. I'm setting up the diy 'aero' in a separate tent so that I can hopefully experiment and change things as I go. Hopefully all goes well. If not, I'll be running two grows and keeping the ebb because it is what I'm comfortable with. I say keep it going, just keep making improvements!
 

waterdawg

Well-Known Member
I haven't even completed my first grow and I've already come to terms with the fact that my setup could always use improvement. I'm setting up the diy 'aero' in a separate tent so that I can hopefully experiment and change things as I go. Hopefully all goes well. If not, I'll be running two grows and keeping the ebb because it is what I'm comfortable with. I say keep it going, just keep making improvements!
Thanks for the encouragement!!!! Like. I said I'm on the fence lol. Just need to solve the root thing really but given it lots of thought and a solution is not throwing itself at me lol. If I could make the lid removable and leave the net pots in place that would solve the issue of sprayer access, perhaps some kind of a netpot stand. Maybe a layer of hydroton with the pots sitting on top. Make the holes bigger and use ethafoam discs to block light around the pots. Fuck I dont know lol. Sprayers are all working so far so touch wood!!
 

Drumfounded

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the encouragement!!!! Like. I said I'm on the fence lol. Just need to solve the root thing really but given it lots of thought and a solution is not throwing itself at me lol. If I could make the lid removable and leave the net pots in place that would solve the issue of sprayer access, perhaps some kind of a netpot stand. Maybe a layer of hydroton with the pots sitting on top. Make the holes bigger and use ethafoam discs to block light around the pots. Fuck I dont know lol. Sprayers are all working so far so touch wood!!
I think you're on to something, man! A little stand made out of PVC perhaps? Put a sheet of foam on top, secure with zip-ties and then stencil out your lid! I'm sure there's a better way but just the idea off the top of the head sounds like it would function well and be pretty easy to do. Let me know if you get into something like this, id love to see how you put it together!
 

waterdawg

Well-Known Member
Looks good kmog!!! Yes I did like my last setup as well. I like to tinker lol. I even have three rails drilled and ready to go lol. Bought a booster pump last month to do true areo but that seems even more trouble prone lol. Just got a CO2 controller last week as well lol.
 

kmog33

Well-Known Member
Looks good kmog!!! Yes I did like my last setup as well. I like to tinker lol. I even have three rails drilled and ready to go lol. Bought a booster pump last month to do true areo but that seems even more trouble prone lol. Just got a CO2 controller last week as well lol.
Plants are about 45 days from seed, not bad for 100% led.

Sent from my LG-LS980 using Rollitup mobile app
 

TheChemist77

Well-Known Member
I was thinking I should have kept the screen that came with the shower drain lol. I will try hanging a fine mesh on the bottom of the drain and see what happens. I cant get the lid up in the upper tray at all now just no play in the roots. Some sort of false bottom perhaps??? I just may go back to my previous rig (ebb/flo, nft, kinda thing) as it produced great plants as well. This method seems to produce great plants with stability but a few things I'm still on the fence about. The amount of nutes used is an issue due to higher EC needed. Root tangles are a bitch. I'm sure there are a few things I could improve on but again the last system worked well.
Check out my new journal pix.. https://www.rollitup.org/t/chemist77-pic-journal.850252/#post-11036271
 

waterdawg

Well-Known Member
My last setup was the same concept but used totes instead of rails. I drilled them out for the net pots but did totes instead. I got really concerned the the roots would be plugging them. The other thing I did was use flooming instead if airpumps. Had great results but got bored lol.
 

waterdawg

Well-Known Member
I meant to say the rails are ready to go just got concerned is all. How do you access the sprayers?
 

2bric1980

Active Member
LOL.. LPA.. which really isnt aero.. aero has no medium .. anyone can def do LPA .. but not everyone can follow TAG rules with aero without experience ..
 
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