AC Install Help Needed

kpw555

kpw555

Well-Known Member
:mrgreen:DSC07109.jpgDSC07112.jpg


So I'm having a little heat issue that needed resolved and the solution I came up with is the mini-split ductless AC unit by Hiel. This unit requires no duct work but it does however require that the connections be made between the indoor and outdoor units. I am in no way an AC man but I know that the unit is charged to be able to use a 25' line set for connections and that the lines must be evacuated before valves are opened. From that point I am a little fuzzy.

The big line is return and the small one is high pressure to indoor unit? Or visa verse?

The smallest in the middle is for the gauge and pump?

I would appreciate all the help I can get as I will not be able to hire a professional for this important job.

The fittings and instructions call for flare fittings. Will a regular old flare tool work for this?, as I have one of those in my toolbox.

I will probably have more questions for an AC man if one shows up.

I can buy or rent whatever equipment is needed.:peace:
 
C

curtis loew

Member
The big line is the suction line, it is the reurn to the compressor. I don't get the question about the middle, in the middle of what? A regular flaring tool is what ya use so I imagine yours will work just fine.

I am a HVAC/R technician so ask away, I probably cannot answer every one but I'll try.
 
kpw555

kpw555

Well-Known Member
In the picture there are three valves. The large top one the smaller bottom one of similar design, and a third in the middle of those two that is like a valve stem on a tire.

The vacuum pump goes where in the setup?

There seems to be two knobs for the suction valve, one knob on the return and the valve stem on the third outlet.
 
KitchenKhemist

KitchenKhemist

Active Member
Yes, the small schrader valve in the middle is a liquid line port for attaching gauges. Make sure to insulate that suction line (some mini-splits require BOTH lines to be insulated...check your manual) with Armaflex AND GLUE YOUR JOINTS with Armaflex glue (or contact cement). Otherwise, it's gonna sweat like a beast!
 
KitchenKhemist

KitchenKhemist

Active Member
Take those caps off with a crescent! You have the small liquid line schrader for attaching gauges to. Then, on the liquid assembly, you have your flare fitting (where your piping connects), and a stem valve. On the suction side, you have the flare fitting, a schrader valve, and a stem valve. You will open your stem valves AFTER evacuating the linesets. From the looks of it, the vacuum pump will hook into your line sets (did they come with the unit?), or into the lines on the fan coil unit (most likely..but I've never dealt with a Heil).
 
kpw555

kpw555

Well-Known Member
KitchenKhemist said:
Yes, the small schrader valve in the middle is a liquid line port for attaching gauges. Make sure to insulate that suction line (some mini-splits require BOTH lines to be insulated...check your manual) with Armaflex AND GLUE YOUR JOINTS with Armaflex glue (or contact cement). Otherwise, it's gonna sweat like a beast!
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Sweaty tubing = Moisture = disease, pestilence and damage:sad:. I will pay particular attention to the construction of the line set insulation and the drain line from the indoor unit to minimize the moisture that can escape into the room or structure.

Speaking of line sets, no they did not come with the unit they were separate item and I only purchased one set. I only need the one unit running right this minute and only got one, I should have asked if I can operate it like that, any idea if it will cause problems? I couldn't think of anything that may prevent running one half of it for a while.

It runs on 110v so I can set a disconnect myself, I got plenty of power.:idea:

Thanks for the answers guys, I really appreciate the help. I will set a base and power tomorrow and take some pics of the install, I know I will need more help, as I only just received the unit 2 days ago.


Here is the warranty statement from the distributor.

  • 1 year No Hassle replacement limited warranty
  • 5 year limited compressor, 5 year limited coil and parts
    warranties

Here is the unit I got.

http://www.heatandcool.com/3-4-ton-9-000btu-h-Heil-13-SEER-MiniSplit-p/dfc2a318j2a+dff2ah09j1a.htm
 
KitchenKhemist

KitchenKhemist

Active Member
Wow....never saw a dual unit like that. Kinda had me confused the way you were wording things...but it all came together when I saw the picture...sweet-lookin set up. Yes...it'll operate fine. One of the compressors won't run, but it's seperate from the other (I think...there are individual connections for 4 different pipes right?). Kinda interesting that they charged it w/ R-22.
 
KitchenKhemist

KitchenKhemist

Active Member
Well, R-22 refrigerant is already obsolete...for several years now. I didn't even know you could still purchase units that ran on it. Not that it REALLY matters...I can still get R-22 easily (and so can anybody with the proper EPA license), but most systems now run R-410A refrigerant. R-22 just keeps goin up in price as it gets produced in smaller and smaller quantities....kinda like R-12 did.
 
kpw555

kpw555

Well-Known Member
Thanks, maybe that is why they were half price. I hope I don't need to get any more for it.

I haven't got it set yet.

I have the base outside set and the disconnect for it set, but I haven't got the unit in place yet, it is really heavy and I can't move it myself.

I guess I should be really sure all my connections are tight and right the first time then so none leaks out.

All this hassle over a weed, my my it just hurts my feelings we have to go to this much trouble for to grow a weed.
 
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amquai

New Member
KitchenKhemist said:
Well, R-22 refrigerant is already obsolete...for several years now. I didn't even know you could still purchase units that ran on it. Not that it REALLY matters...I can still get R-22 easily (and so can anybody with the proper EPA license), but most systems now run R-410A refrigerant. R-22 just keeps goin up in price as it gets produced in smaller and smaller quantities....kinda like R-12 did.
Click to expand...
2010 was the begining of the phase out for r-22. r-22 units are as abundant in availability as R-410a. r-22 has not seen a price increase in Arizona in over a year and it is not scheduled to go up in price till the end of 2010 and at that point they are guessing a 20% increase ( or approx. $40 for a 30lb jug). it will be years before r-22 is even close to obsolete.
 
KitchenKhemist

KitchenKhemist

Active Member
lol...2010 was the beginning of the phase-out? My suppliers stopped selling Ruud/Rheem R-22 units 4-5 years ago. And a 20% increase in price by the end of 2010 does constitute "goin up." Another 20% increase next year, and the year after that...you see where I'm goin with this? Like it or not, R-22 IS obsolete (I didn't say extinct), there is a replacement for it already in use around the globe. "Obsolete" doesn't mean "crappy." Once again, you WILL still be able to easily obtain R-22 for quite some time, but by the time this brand new system needs it (if installed correctly), some asshole driving a van with a ladder rack is gonna charge you out the glory hole for it. My advice...buy a jug now and put it in the garage. I can even help you obtain the necessary license. Unlike some idiot that shows up, butthurt because i said the air conditioner duct-taped to the side of his trailer was "obsolete."
 
kpw555

kpw555

Well-Known Member
:-PI got my unit all set and the mains service connected properly, both inside units hung on the wall, one set of refrigerant lines connected, and am going to the HD for another line set to complete that part of the install.



:?:
I'm kind of stuck on the wiring for the inside units. The inside units operate on 30vdc supplied from the outside unit where the mains connect. There are also two additional wires that must come from outside to inside for a total of 4 wires, all low voltage.

According to the manual that came with the inside units, each requires 1.8 full load amps to operate.

While the schematic calls for 14ga wire for this connection, as the units are less than 15' from the source, and the fact that 16ga wire is rated to carry 3.7 amps for power distribution, and the fact that I can get a 25' roll(plenty to wire both units) of stranded 16ga 4 conductor trailer wire for $15 at Autozone...........................................I should be fine with that, right? Thanks for any advice.





I found a place to rent the vacuum pump that I will need to evacuate the lines and check for leaks. $40 for the day, I guess not bad for what I will have in this rig after it's all said and done with.

I hope I got enough btus for the job, 9000 x 2 with one inside unit in the flowering chamber and the other inside unit in the mother/clone/work space. Cooling a total of 2900W of lighting and maybe 600w of other devices in the spaces.

I was kind of concerned with the size of the unit when it came off the truck, but after setting it where it goes and looking from the street it is actually quite stealthy. It even matches the color of my house! I hope it is quiet too.
 
KitchenKhemist

KitchenKhemist

Active Member
I'd say you'd be fine with the 16ga wire, but if anything ever happens to your new, expensive equipment with the lesser gauge installed....your warranty will be void. Get the small spools of 14ga (25'?) of four different colors and twist them together to make "one wire." Then, just pull them through your conduit and you're done my friend...cheap and easy.

As far as BTU sizing, you're gonna love this thing. I can't think of a better type of unit to install in a grow room when the money's available.
 
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amquai

New Member
You are truly stupid KitchenKhemist. Just the fact that you peddle that crap line Ruud/Rheem. apparently you live somewhere in the back woods because its clear you have no clue. I feel sorry for the people that get fooled into letting you touch their equipment or better yet sell them a Ruud. Thats hillarious! Put down the pipe and pick up a book you hillbilly, cousin humping, douchebag.
 
KitchenKhemist

KitchenKhemist

Active Member
amquai said:
You are truly stupid KitchenKhemist. Just the fact that you peddle that crap line Ruud/Rheem. apparently you live somewhere in the back woods because its clear you have no clue. I feel sorry for the people that get fooled into letting you touch their equipment or better yet sell them a Ruud. Thats hillarious! Put down the pipe and pick up a book you hillbilly, cousin humping, douchebag.
Click to expand...
LMAO!!! Ruud/Rheem is a crap line? I notice you didn't bother to post your favorite brand of second-rate shit...probably because you don't have a inkling of a clue as to what you're getting yourself into. Rheem pioneered the Marathon water heater...new technology you're most likely unaware of since you're still using 2-liter bottles and the sun to heat your bath bucket. Ruud and Rheem have some of the best warranties in the game. either way, I've been putting in Trane units for the past few years (since going commercial) and guess what? ALL 410-a systems....fucking dumbshit.

As for the book....which book? The ICC International Mechanical Code book? The ICC International Fuel Gas Code book? The NFPA 70 Electrical Code book? I have all three, used them to pass my National Standard Master Mechanical Test. Wanna borrow any of them? you might learn something...like how to read.
 
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amquai

New Member
KitchenKhemist said:
LMAO!!! Ruud/Rheem is a crap line? I notice you didn't bother to post your favorite brand of second-rate shit...probably because you don't have a inkling of a clue as to what you're getting yourself into. Rheem pioneered the Marathon water heater...new technology you're most likely unaware of since you're still using 2-liter bottles and the sun to heat your bath bucket. Ruud and Rheem have some of the best warranties in the game. either way, I've been putting in Trane units for the past few years (since going commercial) and guess what? ALL 410-a systems....fucking dumbshit.

As for the book....which book? The ICC International Mechanical Code book? The ICC International Fuel Gas Code book? The NFPA 70 Electrical Code book? I have all three, used them to pass my National Standard Master Mechanical Test. Wanna borrow any of them? you might learn something...like how to read.
Click to expand...
I don't know where the hell you are from but I am a Trane dealer and they are most definatly not all 410a systems. Im glad you claim to have passed your test you'll need that info to fix all the shit Ruud systems you are installing. go blow smoke up somebody else's ass you RETARD.

Its funny that you get so mad that someone calls you on your bullshit. I would match credentials with you all day long but it would be a waste of time. I mean you actually say you install ruud/rheem products without laughing. hahahahahaha
 
KitchenKhemist

KitchenKhemist

Active Member
Oh that explains it....a Trane DEALER! I have to talk to asshole Trane SALESMEN just like you at least once a month. You would try to feed us full of your bullshit so you can keep peddling your OBSOLETE equipment (that is, if you REALLY were a dealer...but you're most likely some stupid fucking 14 year old on mama's computer). and don't try to compare credentials with me, you'll get buried.

Like this...

Phaseout Schedule for HCFCs Including R-22

Under the terms of the Montreal Protocol, the U.S. agreed to meet certain obligations by specific dates that will affect the residential heat pump and air-conditioning industry:
January 1, 2004:The Montreal Protocol required the U.S. to reduce its consumption of HCFCs by 35% below the U.S. baseline cap. As of January 1, 2003, EPA banned production and import of HCFC-141b, the most ozone-destructive HCFC. This action allowed the United States to meet its obligations under the Montreal Protocol. EPA was able to issue 100% of company baseline allowances for production and import of HCFC-22 and HCFC-142b.

January 1, 2010:The Montreal Protocol requires the U.S. to reduce its consumption of HCFCs by 75% below the U.S. baseline. Allowance holders may only produce or import HCFC-22 to service existing equipment. Virgin R-22 may not be used in new equipment. As a result, heating, ventilation and air-conditioning (HVAC) system manufacturers may not produce new air conditioners and heat pumps containing R-22.

January 1, 2015:The Montreal Protocol requires the U.S. to reduce its consumption of HCFCs by 90% below the U.S. baseline.

January 1, 2020:The Montreal Protocol requires the U.S. to reduce its consumption of HCFCs by 99.5% below the U.S. baseline. Refrigerant that has been recovered and recycled/reclaimed will be allowed beyond 2020 to service existing systems, but chemical manufacturers will no longer be able to produce R-22 to service existing air conditioners and heat pumps.

Source: http://www.epa.gov/Ozone/title6/phaseout/22phaseout.html

Look under January, 2010 the DEADLINE for phaseout of R-22 in new units. So since RUUD/Rheem did it much sooner, they must be way behind Trane huh?...can you read fucktard? Better yet, look under 2020....R-22 won't even be produced anymore. Think it'll still be affordable dumbass? It's hard to stop a Trane, even harder to get one going. Trane equipment is overrated. The only reason it's still held in such high regard is the Summitt system the equipment can be tied into in Commercial Applications. Or do you even know what that is?

Still wanna play kid? I'm anxiously awaiting another post in which you deny everything I say with NO EVIDENCE to back yourself up pussy. Or you could just keep talking crap on RUUD/Rheem equipment...that's really working for you :)
 
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amquai

New Member
KitchenKhemist said:
Oh that explains it....a Trane DEALER! I have to talk to asshole Trane SALESMEN just like you at least once a month. You would try to feed us full of your bullshit so you can keep peddling your OBSOLETE equipment (that is, if you REALLY were a dealer...but you're most likely some stupid fucking 14 year old on mama's computer). and don't try to compare credentials with me, you'll get buried.

Like this...

Phaseout Schedule for HCFCs Including R-22

Under the terms of the Montreal Protocol, the U.S. agreed to meet certain obligations by specific dates that will affect the residential heat pump and air-conditioning industry:
January 1, 2004:The Montreal Protocol required the U.S. to reduce its consumption of HCFCs by 35% below the U.S. baseline cap. As of January 1, 2003, EPA banned production and import of HCFC-141b, the most ozone-destructive HCFC. This action allowed the United States to meet its obligations under the Montreal Protocol. EPA was able to issue 100% of company baseline allowances for production and import of HCFC-22 and HCFC-142b.

January 1, 2010:The Montreal Protocol requires the U.S. to reduce its consumption of HCFCs by 75% below the U.S. baseline. Allowance holders may only produce or import HCFC-22 to service existing equipment. Virgin R-22 may not be used in new equipment. As a result, heating, ventilation and air-conditioning (HVAC) system manufacturers may not produce new air conditioners and heat pumps containing R-22.

January 1, 2015:The Montreal Protocol requires the U.S. to reduce its consumption of HCFCs by 90% below the U.S. baseline.

January 1, 2020:The Montreal Protocol requires the U.S. to reduce its consumption of HCFCs by 99.5% below the U.S. baseline. Refrigerant that has been recovered and recycled/reclaimed will be allowed beyond 2020 to service existing systems, but chemical manufacturers will no longer be able to produce R-22 to service existing air conditioners and heat pumps.

Source: http://www.epa.gov/Ozone/title6/phaseout/22phaseout.html

Look under January, 2010 the DEADLINE for phaseout of R-22 in new units. So since RUUD/Rheem did it much sooner, they must be way behind Trane huh?...can you read fucktard? Better yet, look under 2020....R-22 won't even be produced anymore. Think it'll still be affordable dumbass? It's hard to stop a Trane, even harder to get one going. Trane equipment is overrated. The only reason it's still held in such high regard is the Summitt system the equipment can be tied into in Commercial Applications. Or do you even know what that is?

Still wanna play kid? I'm anxiously awaiting another post in which you deny everything I say with NO EVIDENCE to back yourself up pussy. Or you could just keep talking crap on RUUD/Rheem equipment...that's really working for you :)
Click to expand...
all you did was prove my point you idiot. go back and read my post. I agree that by 2020 r22 is going to be expensive. I said that there has been no changes until 2010 you dumbass and it will be years before R-22 will be obsolete. And keep talking your nonsense about trane your proving who the fucktard is.

try looking up the def. of obsolete.
1 a : no longer in use or no longer useful <an obsolete word> b : of a kind or style no longer current

This is hillarious reading your anger filled nonsense. To know I can make you so mad about a simple statement that you made incorrectly and are unwilling to just admit it. The fact that you feel you have to try and boost your self esteem by claiming to be an all knowing whatever and then you take the time to post info. that was meant to disprove something I said and it did the exact opposite. Its allright man you made a simple mistake an used obsolete when you meant to say something else. tell your boyfriend to take his dick out of your ass and just calm down... or don't I love it that your so upset about it. Tell then later RETARD have fun spending more of your time looking up info to try and make yourself feel better. I wouldnt spend too much time though cause there are a lot of crap Ruud units that need repaired... Hahahahahahahahahaha
 
KitchenKhemist

KitchenKhemist

Active Member
Who said anything about anger? I love watching you slightly change your words in a pisspoor attempt to regain cred. When you said there would be no changes till 2010, you were wrong. R-410a units have been available for quite some time...any ACTUAL Trane dealer should know that...and they were meant to replace R-22 from the getgo. I'm not the one backpedaling like a little bitch. You wanna split hairs with your little webster's dictionary definition, fine. Let's say R-22 isn't obsolete. If you were installing a unit on YOUR house TOMORROW, would you put in an R-22 system knowing damn well that you'll pay out your ass for a drum of it in 10 years when the system needs recharging? Well, Trane units may need it sooner...they ARE, in fact, rush jobs. I've toured the Tyler facility.

In fact, as I previously stated (and you previously missed due to lack of reading skills), I've been installing Trane units for some time now and very recently finished a rooftop package unit and guess what? The transformer in the brand new low-ambient kit was bad from factory....happens with a lot of new Trane equipment. I can remember ONE RUUD part that was bad at startup in 6 years of installing them. It was the pressure switch in a residential furnace that somehow got a tiny piece of the foam packaging inside. Fixed it in 5 minutes. I'm still waiting on the new part from Trane after 5 days.

I'm not gonna completely bash Trane products...I install them all the time. But when you come out blasting RUUD/Rheem for no reason, you show just how ignorant you really are. The ONLY reason Trane is so prevalent in commercial applications (once again for the slow kid in the room) is the Summitt system it can tie into. Trane equipment is nothing special. Trane CONTROLS and SERVICE REPS are what make the company what it is. Anybody can sell it (or claim to), but it takes someone with intelligence to install/service/control the damned things.

So just keep on tweeking your own words little by little to avoid the obvious fact that you started an argument with the wrong MF. Before long, you'll be saying exactly what I am. Anyone with half a brain can see that any dealer with R-22 systems STILL in stock either got them REALLY cheap (and gets mad when someone informs the public that they're selling last decade's equipment), or must be eating lots of PB&J and government cheese because they move condensers like old people fuck....verrrrrrrrrrrry slllooooowwwwly (if at all).
 
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