A tale of Mothers, clones and vertical growing in an old silo.

Hey guys!

First time poster here.
There are so many things i wish to ask and discuss in this thread that i wasn't really sure wich topic i should choose. But here goes.
I have been growing succesfully for some years now, using autopots, dwc, and aeroponics.

The last two years i have been doing aeroponics, combined with scrog from seed, and some cloning.

Anyways. i recently cleaned out a silo at my farm wich is right next to my growroom. it is pretty big so i got to thinking, what if made a kind of a coliseum/tower/sog garden in there?
The silo in itself is about 3,5 m tall and 3m in diameter. and after doing the math i figure if i space the plants on the towers at about 30cm height-wise, and 30cm between each tower, along the walls, it will give me about 8/10 plants per tower, and about 25/30 towers if i factor in space for other equipment.
That ladies and gentlemen is a whopping 200/300 small cute ladies.

Here i Have expertly drawn a representation of what im trying to achieve. Very "picasso esque"
The towers will be connected at the bottom, and the ones opposite of the res will be hanging a bit higher so that the water will run back into the res.
I intend to place a pump in the res, and run tubes up along, and around over the towers with some pressure so they all get equal amounts water.
Over the towers i was thinking of making some sort of a "showerhead" so that the water will spread evenly down along the tubes. (taking suggestions here)

I have built quite a lot of different growing system over the years, and frankly find it the more fun part of the whole process.

So that brings me to the questions bit.
I have no experience what so ever about keeping mothers. or how many clones i can take from 1 mom every 2 months.
I was hoping to have 8 mothers and 4 strains. so two of each. is this to few moms? i have plenty of space to make them huge if that helps.

And if anyone would have any insights as to how the whole process should work. any input would be much appreciated.
I really would like to just rotate the strains and put 200 clones in the silo every two months.
Another idea could be to divide the silo into 4 zones, with 4 reservoars, and time it out so its more of a perpetual kind of thing. But lazy as i am, i would really like to avoid it.

I can snap some photos of the silo and my current setup if anybodys interrested.

Anyways, Thanks in advance. Peace

This is a life goal and you have my attention.

I would love to watch this grow.

courtesy of @Heath Robinson

We were just discussing these but with led's

spliffendz said:

courtesy of @Heath Robinson

View attachment 4633437

View attachment 4633438

Click to expand...

That is beautiful.

Kalebaiden said:

That is beautiful.

Click to expand...

There should be full instructionals online or on his accounts if you google his name, he was super helpful

spliffendz said:

courtesy of @Heath Robinson

View attachment 4633437

View attachment 4633438

Click to expand...

Yes, ive seen these. I feel like the top one could be easily clogged.
the second one is nice, but fuck growing in coco imo.

So do any of you guys have any tips about how many mothers i would need to take 200/300 cuttings every 2 months?

åsnap said:

Yes, ive seen these. I feel like the top one could be easily clogged.
the second one is nice, but fuck growing in coco imo.

Click to expand...

@Kalebaiden

I need to build a silo. Get research and nursery permits, figure out where I'm going to get $5000 in liquid cash and start growing a strain.

I wonder if you could effectively pheno hunt in a silo?

åsnap said:

i recently cleaned out a silo at my farm wich is right next to my growroom. it is pretty big so i got to thinking, what if made a kind of a coliseum/tower/sog garden in ther

Click to expand...

Ah, ever since I saw Heath's work, and been growing vertically, I've had the same thoughts whenever I see silos!

Let's toss around a few ideas for fun...

The first couple issues I'd think you'd have to overcome will be irrigation and lighting, with the particular dimensions you'd be working with.

I'd be concerned whether 600 watters could penetrate the 4-5ft to the wall, if you're planning on being all the way up against it. 1000 watters would probably reach though, or custom vertical 4-600 watt LED strip lights, if you're so inclined. You'd probably want 3 of either type of light to cover your 3m height effectively, so 3000 watts hid, or 12-1800 watts of LED, and you should get your height and diameter lit up pretty decent.

As for irrigation, the main issues are going to be getting the water high enough, and to all sites.

I'd recommend a nice strong pump, likely over 2000 gallons per hour, with the height capacity a main consideration. I use 1200gph submersible pump, only a couple feet high, and only to 8 sites. If you're in farm country though, you should be able to find something industrial pretty easy. Maybe a well pump, mounted high even?

However you get the water up, you'll want to try to spread it as evenly as possible to the sites. I try to keep feed manifolds feeding from a central spot, to a tee, and loop around in a circle, with individual sites being a smaller diameter tube than the main feed line, i.e.1 inch main line, tee, and loop, then 1/2 or 1/4 inch line at each plant or plant column.

If doing columns, like you were describing, I'd come through the center of the top of the column cap, and use a 360* sprayer, pointed straight down, spraying and flowing down the whole column and over netpots and roots.

You'd also probably want a drainage manifold of at least 1 inch diameter at the bottoms of your columns, heading back to your reservoir...

Speaking of your rez, you'll want a large capacity so it doesn't run too low while the waters out getting to all the sites; yet shallow, so as not to take up your vertical space. I'd probably be looking at feed troughs or kiddie pools of at least 40-50 gallons, if it were my build.

You could also get a few hundred feet of corrugated drainage pipe, hanging strap, and spiral it around the silo wall continuously back down to the reservoir. Feed at one spot at the top, and it will run back down to the rez as an nft system. That would eliminate having to make a feed manifold, anyway.

Drainage pipe or PVC will be a few hundred feet and bucks to set up either way, just another option of flow.

Regarding plant rotation, the way I understood how you wrote it;

If you plan on running monocrops of 1 strain at a time, 1 mother of each will be more than enough. You'd only need your 200 cuts every 6-8 months, or whenever you make it back around to that strain. And since you're only giving each cut about a square foot of room, fully grown, your cuts will be tiny to begin with. Personally, I'd run all 4 strains each time, only needing 50 of each, every 2 months... But I like variety! Either way, you'll want decent sized mothers, for a bunch of 4-6 inch cuts every couple months. Maybe 3-4 footers, but it sounds like you have room.

Hope that helps with some details!

joecanna17 said:

Ah, ever since I saw Heath's work, and been growing vertically, I've had the same thoughts whenever I see silos!

Let's toss around a few ideas for fun...

The first couple issues I'd think you'd have to overcome will be irrigation and lighting, with the particular dimensions you'd be working with.

I'd be concerned whether 600 watters could penetrate the 4-5ft to the wall, if you're planning on being all the way up against it. 1000 watters would probably reach though, or custom vertical 4-600 watt LED strip lights, if you're so inclined. You'd probably want 3 of either type of light to cover your 3m height effectively, so 3000 watts hid, or 12-1800 watts of LED, and you should get your height and diameter lit up pretty decent.

As for irrigation, the main issues are going to be getting the water high enough, and to all sites.

I'd recommend a nice strong pump, likely over 2000 gallons per hour, with the height capacity a main consideration. I use 1200gph submersible pump, only a couple feet high, and only to 8 sites. If you're in farm country though, you should be able to find something industrial pretty easy. Maybe a well pump, mounted high even?

However you get the water up, you'll want to try to spread it as evenly as possible to the sites. I try to keep feed manifolds feeding from a central spot, to a tee, and loop around in a circle, with individual sites being a smaller diameter tube than the main feed line, i.e.1 inch main line, tee, and loop, then 1/2 or 1/4 inch line at each plant or plant column.

If doing columns, like you were describing, I'd come through the center of the top of the column cap, and use a 360* sprayer, pointed straight down, spraying and flowing down the whole column and over netpots and roots.

You'd also probably want a drainage manifold of at least 1 inch diameter at the bottoms of your columns, heading back to your reservoir...

Speaking of your rez, you'll want a large capacity so it doesn't run too low while the waters out getting to all the sites; yet shallow, so as not to take up your vertical space. I'd probably be looking at feed troughs or kiddie pools of at least 40-50 gallons, if it were my build.

You could also get a few hundred feet of corrugated drainage pipe, hanging strap, and spiral it around the silo wall continuously back down to the reservoir. Feed at one spot at the top, and it will run back down to the rez as an nft system. That would eliminate having to make a feed manifold, anyway.

Drainage pipe or PVC will be a few hundred feet and bucks to set up either way, just another option of flow.

Regarding plant rotation, the way I understood how you wrote it;

If you plan on running monocrops of 1 strain at a time, 1 mother of each will be more than enough. You'd only need your 200 cuts every 6-8 months, or whenever you make it back around to that strain. And since you're only giving each cut about a square foot of room, fully grown, your cuts will be tiny to begin with. Personally, I'd run all 4 strains each time, only needing 50 of each, every 2 months... But I like variety! Either way, you'll want decent sized mothers, for a bunch of 4-6 inch cuts every couple months. Maybe 3-4 footers, but it sounds like you have room.

Hope that helps with some details!

Click to expand...

This is some great information man. Thank you!

I have thought about the lighting issue, but if the silo has a 1.5 metre radius, and i will probs have to cut ,5 meter for pipes and plants. so i would think the plants would be just about 1 metre from the lights. And i admit, its not ideal, but getting led ligths into my country is a 50/50, regarding customs.

As for irrigation i completely agree with you. I need height, and enough pressure so that the water will be spread evenly. And using a manifold is probably better than just going up, and in a circle.

Most of the reason that i want to do columns, is that it just makes it easier to clean i think. im madly tired of having to scrub down my aeroponic system after every grow. This way i figure i could just stick a pressure washer down the top of the columns after every grow, and im good. (in theory)

the reason i want to do monocrops is just because it seems simpler, and less time consuming.

I was thinking of using 6 inch PVC, for columns, and maybe 4 inch for connecting them at the bottom.

Man i've been going at this alone for all these years. it feels good to bounce ideas with better minds.

I thought i could share some photos of the grow space, to spark a bit of inspiration. And to brag a bit of course

This is the silo. the photo doesnt do it justice really. ive actually grown in here before, but on the floor obviously. And it clearly needs a little work. Right by the cross-beam is where i would enter through a ladder.


Here we see my scrog setup atm. Using an aeroponic system i buildt. This is where i will keep my mothers, but i think i will just buy a rdwc system for 8 plants. It's a bit messy right now. I flipped them today and did some heavy defoliating.
In the right hand corner of the room i can basically punch a hole through the wall, and i'll be in the silo.


This is my old veg cabinet, wich i will be using as a cloning/drying room when i'm up and running.

Right on, everyone has to work with their particular environment...

I'm sure the plants will stretch for the light, if they feel it isn't enough. You could anchor the plants to the hanging strap supporting the above row with a simple wire, and not have to worry about an inner trellis either.

Also, depending on strains you're running, you might be better off with less intense light. Some say cookies crosses are like that.

You've got a good point about the ease of cleaning with the PVC, as the corrugated drain pipe does have crinkled sides, perpendicular to the flow of water, but honestly, sterility is not quite as important as people make it out to be, as long as your temperatures and bacteria are in check.

You can use live bacteria, fungi, and enzymes, or go sterile with chemicals like bleach, peroxide, or calcium hypochlorite. I'd recommend sterile if your water stays over 80f.

Not to try to sell you on the idea of the drain pipe, but I feel it might need more explanation.

Picture a huge coil of pipe, 10 rings high, around the wall of the silo. Each level has 20-30 sites.

The top starts directly above the rez, and the end of the pipe empties back into it at the bottom. The pump only has to pump to the top of the pipe, and the water flows down past all net pots and roots, and back to the rez at the bottom.
One long ride, and a lot less connection / potential leaks than a bunch of PVC fittings.
A lot cheaper than PVC too, especially with all the fittings and separate feed and drain lines you'll need.
In the PVC columns, if you're running the pipes straight vertical, without special wye fittings, you will likely leak a little if your netpots are drilled straight in the sides.

(Those 6 inch wyes are $30 each at the home stores, and if you're willing to pay like that, I'll fly over and build it and the custom LEDs for you! Lol)

The netpots would sit regularly in the drain pipe, and you would only have one seam in the whole run, as it comes up to at least 250ft lengths. That seam wouldn't leak because you'd have the uphill piece inserted into the downhill piece, and the water would flow over and past.

Also, if you're running a bunch of small clones that can only fill about a square foot each, I don't think you'll have to worry about filling a 6 inch pipe with roots, and 4 inch would probably work fine... And be a lot cheaper for the PVC than 6 inch... But the drainage pipe and perforated hanging strap would still be cheaper.

Again, not trying to sell you, just trying to paint a better picture.

If you monocrop 1 plant every 2 months, with 8 mother plants, you do realize you'll have 16 months between getting back around to the first plant, right?

Seems like a lot more work to me, but hell, you could start a nursery with all the maintenance pruning you'll be doing!

You could keep 4 mothers, and take 50-75 cuts off each, every 2 months for less work and more variety.

I'm definitely digging the silo, and looks like you've got plenty of space to play with!

joecanna17 said:

Right on, everyone has to work with their particular environment...

I'm sure the plants will stretch for the light, if they feel it isn't enough. You could anchor the plants to the hanging strap supporting the above row with a simple wire, and not have to worry about an inner trellis either.

Also, depending on strains you're running, you might be better off with less intense light. Some say cookies crosses are like that.

You've got a good point about the ease of cleaning with the PVC, as the corrugated drain pipe does have crinkled sides, perpendicular to the flow of water, but honestly, sterility is not quite as important as people make it out to be, as long as your temperatures and bacteria are in check.

You can use live bacteria, fungi, and enzymes, or go sterile with chemicals like bleach, peroxide, or calcium hypochlorite. I'd recommend sterile if your water stays over 80f.

Not to try to sell you on the idea of the drain pipe, but I feel it might need more explanation.

Picture a huge coil of pipe, 10 rings high, around the wall of the silo. Each level has 20-30 sites.

The top starts directly above the rez, and the end of the pipe empties back into it at the bottom. The pump only has to pump to the top of the pipe, and the water flows down past all net pots and roots, and back to the rez at the bottom.
One long ride, and a lot less connection / potential leaks than a bunch of PVC fittings.
A lot cheaper than PVC too, especially with all the fittings and separate feed and drain lines you'll need.
In the PVC columns, if you're running the pipes straight vertical, without special wye fittings, you will likely leak a little if your netpots are drilled straight in the sides.

(Those 6 inch wyes are $30 each at the home stores, and if you're willing to pay like that, I'll fly over and build it and the custom LEDs for you! Lol)

The netpots would sit regularly in the drain pipe, and you would only have one seam in the whole run, as it comes up to at least 250ft lengths. That seam wouldn't leak because you'd have the uphill piece inserted into the downhill piece, and the water would flow over and past.

Also, if you're running a bunch of small clones that can only fill about a square foot each, I don't think you'll have to worry about filling a 6 inch pipe with roots, and 4 inch would probably work fine... And be a lot cheaper for the PVC than 6 inch... But the drainage pipe and perforated hanging strap would still be cheaper.

Again, not trying to sell you, just trying to paint a better picture.

If you monocrop 1 plant every 2 months, with 8 mother plants, you do realize you'll have 16 months between getting back around to the first plant, right?

Seems like a lot more work to me, but hell, you could start a nursery with all the maintenance pruning you'll be doing!

You could keep 4 mothers, and take 50-75 cuts off each, every 2 months for less work and more variety.

I'm definitely digging the silo, and looks like you've got plenty of space to play with!

Click to expand...

Yeah you are absolutely right about the drain pipe. And ive seen some pics of it being done before. I was not intending to drill pots straight into the pvc though. And i have checked the prices for the 200+ 45 degree, 50mm bends, and believe me. its gonna be a costly affair. I just get these ideas in my head you know.

I also agree that the washing process is not that big of a deal. i've tried both with and without bleach. No difference at all.

But i would need 4 very identical strains though if im gonna use all 4 at once, regarding feeding schedules and flush times etc.

I was actually thinking of having 4 strains, with 2 mothers of each. But i am completely new to mothers. So i thought i would at least need 2 pr. strain. But if you say one mom pr. strain is enough that is just great news.

Hey man. You have been really helpfull. Love to hear your feedback.

peace

åsnap said:

i have checked the prices for the 200+ 45 degree, 50mm bends, and believe me. its gonna be a costly affair. I just get these ideas in my head you know.

Click to expand...

Oh I know, for sure. I love those ideas, and the fun of the builds, like you said before.

I know PVC with all the correct wyes and fittings is awesome, but good God, we're talking like $9k just in 6in wyes, without big discount, which I'm sure you'd be getting.

Don't forget your Reflectix style radiant barrier insulation to wrap everything in, and get that bonus bling bling look too! Heheh

Yeah, you definitely don't need to be as anal as some people are when it comes to garden sterility, and still have success. I only know because I suffer from laziness too, and don't clean the garden nearly as much as some think you should, and still have seen decent results. I've had most of the problems a grower could, and am thankful for the lessons. If I can help someone else with their garden, it's usually from personal experience, if I can help it.

Multiple strains sharing a rez is another thing that's not as much to be worried about as some say, in my experience.

I've run Hashplants, cookies, and Thai/African crosses in the same rez, no flush, moderate feed, and generally, they do fine together.

Do you need to know your strains? Yeah. Will a narrow leaf plant get greener quicker? Yeah... But there's a happy medium you should be able to find. You can always feed lighter in the rez, and foliar feed the hungry strains for a few weeks too, if you really wanted.

Do you already know your 4 strains, and how they act?

I try to keep things efficient and simple, if I can, so I've been using Megacrop @ 4 grams per gallon of 0ppm tap water until the last couple weeks. Now I'm at 5 grams per gallon, and they seem a bit happier. 4g/gal was about 650ppm, I think, so it's probably around 800 at 5g/gal, or still under 1000ppm easily, anyway... But I don't really check the levels much. Been trying to pay attention more to the plants than meters when I can.

Other than MC, it's just pH down to about 6, and about 5ppm of calcium hypochlorite for sterility. I tried the beneficials and enzymes, but my water is regularly 80-90+f, so beneficials had a hell of a time keeping the bad stuff knocked down. I never lost anything to rot, but I've moved on to the sterile route for multiple reasons. I'm always changing something lol

1 mother per strain should be plenty for 2 month rotations of 50-75 cuts. I'd want them to be a decent size, probably 2-4ft tall and wide, bushy, which they'll turn naturally with taking cuts, and a healthy, flexible green. I'd be looking at 6 inch cuts with a couple nodes, and at least 1/8 inch diameter green stem where I want to cut it.

Oh, you're also probably going to have to flower or trash your mothers every year, or couple years. Eventually they'll get too big and gnarly to manage, so you'll take cuts, and start a new mother, and either flower or trash the old one. Some people think taking cuts from cuts can cause the plants to weaken over time, but I don't think that's necessarily the case. Of course, there's folks on both sides though.

I like tossing these ideas around, and hope you can actually use that silo, so you're welcome to whatever feedback I can help with!

joecanna17 said:

Oh I know, for sure. I love those ideas, and the fun of the builds, like you said before.

I know PVC with all the correct wyes and fittings is awesome, but good God, we're talking like $9k just in 6in wyes, without big discount, which I'm sure you'd be getting.

Don't forget your Reflectix style radiant barrier insulation to wrap everything in, and get that bonus bling bling look too! Heheh

Yeah, you definitely don't need to be as anal as some people are when it comes to garden sterility, and still have success. I only know because I suffer from laziness too, and don't clean the garden nearly as much as some think you should, and still have seen decent results. I've had most of the problems a grower could, and am thankful for the lessons. If I can help someone else with their garden, it's usually from personal experience, if I can help it.

Multiple strains sharing a rez is another thing that's not as much to be worried about as some say, in my experience.

I've run Hashplants, cookies, and Thai/African crosses in the same rez, no flush, moderate feed, and generally, they do fine together.

Do you need to know your strains? Yeah. Will a narrow leaf plant get greener quicker? Yeah... But there's a happy medium you should be able to find. You can always feed lighter in the rez, and foliar feed the hungry strains for a few weeks too, if you really wanted.

Do you already know your 4 strains, and how they act?

I try to keep things efficient and simple, if I can, so I've been using Megacrop @ 4 grams per gallon of 0ppm tap water until the last couple weeks. Now I'm at 5 grams per gallon, and they seem a bit happier. 4g/gal was about 650ppm, I think, so it's probably around 800 at 5g/gal, or still under 1000ppm easily, anyway... But I don't really check the levels much. Been trying to pay attention more to the plants than meters when I can.

Other than MC, it's just pH down to about 6, and about 5ppm of calcium hypochlorite for sterility. I tried the beneficials and enzymes, but my water is regularly 80-90+f, so beneficials had a hell of a time keeping the bad stuff knocked down. I never lost anything to rot, but I've moved on to the sterile route for multiple reasons. I'm always changing something lol

1 mother per strain should be plenty for 2 month rotations of 50-75 cuts. I'd want them to be a decent size, probably 2-4ft tall and wide, bushy, which they'll turn naturally with taking cuts, and a healthy, flexible green. I'd be looking at 6 inch cuts with a couple nodes, and at least 1/8 inch diameter green stem where I want to cut it.

Oh, you're also probably going to have to flower or trash your mothers every year, or couple years. Eventually they'll get too big and gnarly to manage, so you'll take cuts, and start a new mother, and either flower or trash the old one. Some people think taking cuts from cuts can cause the plants to weaken over time, but I don't think that's necessarily the case. Of course, there's folks on both sides though.

I like tossing these ideas around, and hope you can actually use that silo, so you're welcome to whatever feedback I can help with!

Click to expand...

Oh man, i love these talks, we've got going. Ive been up all night trying to find a price range for the different pipes.
I cant really find 200 meters of drain pipe thats less than 1k.

I was thinking about using these 50mm bends instead of the wyes, and just drill holes in the columns.
I'm gonna use the x-stream propagators anyways,wich use 50mm neoprene rings. and 250 pieces of these is just about $400.


30 of these 4inch, 3m tubes will run me about $500.

I will obviously also have to buy a shit ton of T-bends and tubing. but i would be surprised if the whole deal ran over $2k (i hope)

I haven't really decided on the strains yet. But i feel like they have to be some sort of indica dominant hybrids. And that they have the same flowering time, to a degree.

For nutrients ive just been using AN lately. With a RO filter. I really want to try Floraflex, but getting through customs is a real bitch where im from. I even got taken a bowl trimmer taken from me at one point. And led lights that actually works is just not worth the gamble with the customs. It's like if they see that it's from a weedshop, they just take it.

I wanted to buy something like this for the mothers

Do you think one 600W mh would be enough for them?



Oh and i can promise you that the silo will be used. i'm way to invested to back off now.

åsnap said:

Oh man, i love these talks, we've got going. Ive been up all night trying to find a price range for the different pipes.
I cant really find 200 meters of drain pipe thats less than

Click to expand...

You should only need about 100m of drain pipe, or a little over 300ft, whether drain pipe or PVC. Here, the drainage pipe is .82 per foot, and PVC is 1.24 per foot.

Those bends would probably work; my minor concerns would be whether they stay in place without wobbling around, and having enough roots to make it through the bend, and into the column. Minor concerns, like I say.

If you get tired of paying for neoprene pucks, you could try using foam tube pipe insulation, and cutting it down to the thickness you want. I make mine about an inch thick to support the stems better. A 6 foot long piece is less than $3, and will give you 72, 1 inch thick pucks... Just another DIY option.

For tees and feed/return lines, I'd go with at least 1 inch, but try to stay under 4, depending on fitting prices. Even 1 inch tees are like a buck a piece, before bulk discount, but it may cost more after considering reducer fittings to get from 4 inch down to 1. With the silo diameter, you may be able to connect all the columns at the bottom with 4 inch tees, but I don't know if you can get little 1ft rounded pieces to connect the tees or not. You'd probably need the 22.5* elbows too. Tees and elbows are 5-6$ each, before discount here.

I think you're right about needing indica dominant hybrids, and the hardest part will probably just be finding 4 true 8 week finishers. A lot of stuff people usually take at 8 are really done more like 9 or 10, but people want to keep that 8 week schedule.

I've heard good things about AN and Floraflex, but haven't used either. I have heard AN is pretty expensive though. Regardless, if they're liquid when you get them, you're probably over paying for the water weight. You might want to consider a powdered nutrient that you mix with water yourself. I mix my solutions 5 gallons at a time, the first gallon or so is hot, to dissolve the nutrient, and the rest is cold.

I'm not sure if you can order Megacrop where you're at, but you should be able to get JR Peters, ("Jack's"), which is said to be comparable in price and performance.

The way I see it regarding RO filters, unless the water is very hard and dangerous, they remove minerals like calcium, that you'll just spend more to add back anyway. Plus, they waste at least as much water as they clean, generally. Just my opinion though.

It sucks that customs is so enthusiastic with their theft, but with enough research, you should be able to avoid most suspicious looking senders and labels. You can avoid over priced hydro stores, and find most things from electronics sites, home supply stores, or Amazon. If you're decent with electronics, you can DIY your LED lights with parts from places like Cutter, Digikey, or Arrow.

That kit is nice looking. I'm sure you could DIY it for less, if you wanted, or you could just get it all as a kit, for convenience sake.

A 600w MH might work alright for veg, but you may want more wattage, or to spread more smaller lights across the area.

For 4 mothers, 2-4ft wide and high, you'll probably want to use at least a 10 x 10ft area. I don't think 1 600w would be ideal to cover the whole area, but could be sufficient for veg if you hung it high.

Quickly before i go to work.

Zeus 600 W LED Fullspektrum Lumatek





And Lumatek Zeus 600 W PRO




These just became available in my country. Anybody got any experience with these? They cost about 1200/1400$ here.

Thanks. workwork

How you gonna do a vertical grow in a round silo with those?

Are you electrically/DIY inclined? If so, even minimally, you could build your own better lights for .50-1.00 per watt, where they're charging $2+ per watt for theirs... If you can order from an electronics site from where you are. For their price, hopefully they use the newest, best efficiency diodes, including UV and IR, and maybe even a separate timer for Emerson effect?

To your question, they probably work fine, and they're along the same price line as similar lights from other companies, like Fluence, I just feel they're way over priced, as someone who's built his own.

Speaking of, here's a light I built for a 4x4ft tent, in a 3x3. It's 480w, using 30 560mm Chinese LED strips with Samsung Lm561c diodes. Built 3 years ago, for around $1 per watt.