crunkyeah
Well-Known Member
It seems that like you, ganjaluvr, most people feel that way about LEDs. And you're 100% right with it being new tech, it is extremely hard to find good solid information about LEDs since people don't know a whole lot about them, YET. It's perfectly reasonable to go with the tried and true methods. Although I do want to point out a few things you may not know about.
Lumens are a measure of light in a given area that HUMANS see. Plants simply don't see light the same way. Our eyes just simply can't be compared to all the shit in plants leaves. Do plants have a retina and eyeballs that see light? Nope that's why it's a whole different ballgame.
The wavelengths in the suns rays that are mostly absorbed by plants are the blues and reds, most notably the reds. You can google up graphs for what wavelengths chlorophyll a and b absorb the light most efficiently. And that's really what LEDs are all about. Efficiency. It depends on the LEDs used and whatnot but the theory is, if you have the exact spectrum that the plant needs then you won't need as much light intensity.
Now a little bit about heat. From what I've read, MH and HPS lose about 70% of the electricity used to heat. In some cases this can be good because it triggers plants leaves to respirate water, which in turn makes the roots look for more water to sustain the plant. On the flipside, this could be a bad thing because if you're running 600w of HPS in a smaller growing environment temps could get too HOT so precautions must be made to balance out the heat. This is also where LEDs are more efficient. They convert more electricity into usable light, not so much heat. Granted they still will produce heat, just nowhere near as much. So the guy using 600w of LED may not need 2 6" inline fans and an air conditioner and whatnot. Some people would rather not have all that heat in the first place, and LEDs per watt create a lot less heat than HPS.
I've also read that only 20% roughly of HPS light spectrum is actually used by the plant. The highest peak in HPS lighting is in the green/yellow area I believe. That's why it appears so bright to humans eyes. We see the color green the most vibrantly out of any colors. I'd also like to point out that spectrums like IR and UV are completely 'unseeable' to the humans and this is totally not the case for plants. Same thing for deep red, we can see it, but it's very dim for us. Plants actually see that better than the green light we see so well.
To be perfectly honest, I don't believe LEDs alone are worth using by themselves. At this point I think they make great supplemental lighting, they're just not quite ready for being stand-alone lights yet. That's why I'm doing a CFL/LED grow, using flowering and grow bulbs, also adding the LEDs to the sides. I can tell you that it's working very well. You can check my grow log if you'd like to see what I mean.
As for the grows out there...there's plenty of amazing LED only grows, but you just have to search hard for them. But trust me they are out there. In this stage of the LED game people need to invest in these types of lights, otherwise scientists don't have any funding to do further research and create better lights. CREE just created an LED that gives out 200/W. I think hps is 120/W. So eventually they'll figure out how to create that same efficiency for the color spectrum and not just white LEDs.
I'm interested in LEDs for a couple of reasons(and you'll find lots of other growers with the same growing criterion): They are relatively small compared to a big ass HPS bulb, they don't create as much heat so ventilation isn't as big a concern like it is with HPS, they have the most desired spectrums that plants need, they don't use as much electricity(more $$$ in savings!), and they can be placed a lot closer to the plants during flowering(which allows for lots of micro situations). I'm growing for personal use so it's not like I need huge ass bulbs or anything like that. Commercial growers won't be using LEDs for a long time because you need so many of them. I also don't like to hear anything coming from my grow area, I can't stand loud noisy fans and ballasts. Some of us don't really have the luxury of space. And my very last reason, I think they look so damn cool!
I'm a Minnesota Vikings fan so purple is a color I actually enjoy and with the spectrums of LEDs needed, it should turn the plants a nice deep purple color to our eyes unless you add white LEDs, in which case it just gets lighter.
So all in all, there are plenty of good reasons to use LEDs, but the biggest problem with them is the upfront cost(which deters most people). And they also don't penetrate a plant canopy anywhere near to the extent of an HID bulb. So HID users who try LEDs don't change their growing methods and wonder why they don't yield as much. It's just a different style of growing as well as a different lighting method, and lots of people don't understand this. Another main problem, most of the ebay crap and UFO's and whatnot. 90% of them come from overseas. They like to cut corners when using LEDs, so they don't use the proper spectrum. They also say 90w of LED is equal to 400w of HPS. BIG FUCKING LIE there! So it's very hard to find an LED light that has the proper spectrum, and isn't $1000+. That's why I think DIY is the best option for LEDs at the moment, which is another thing that deters people. They would rather just buy a light plug it in and go.
There are plenty of pros AND cons to using LEDs, bottom line is: use what works for you!
Lumens are a measure of light in a given area that HUMANS see. Plants simply don't see light the same way. Our eyes just simply can't be compared to all the shit in plants leaves. Do plants have a retina and eyeballs that see light? Nope that's why it's a whole different ballgame.
The wavelengths in the suns rays that are mostly absorbed by plants are the blues and reds, most notably the reds. You can google up graphs for what wavelengths chlorophyll a and b absorb the light most efficiently. And that's really what LEDs are all about. Efficiency. It depends on the LEDs used and whatnot but the theory is, if you have the exact spectrum that the plant needs then you won't need as much light intensity.Now a little bit about heat. From what I've read, MH and HPS lose about 70% of the electricity used to heat. In some cases this can be good because it triggers plants leaves to respirate water, which in turn makes the roots look for more water to sustain the plant. On the flipside, this could be a bad thing because if you're running 600w of HPS in a smaller growing environment temps could get too HOT so precautions must be made to balance out the heat. This is also where LEDs are more efficient. They convert more electricity into usable light, not so much heat. Granted they still will produce heat, just nowhere near as much. So the guy using 600w of LED may not need 2 6" inline fans and an air conditioner and whatnot. Some people would rather not have all that heat in the first place, and LEDs per watt create a lot less heat than HPS.
I've also read that only 20% roughly of HPS light spectrum is actually used by the plant. The highest peak in HPS lighting is in the green/yellow area I believe. That's why it appears so bright to humans eyes. We see the color green the most vibrantly out of any colors. I'd also like to point out that spectrums like IR and UV are completely 'unseeable' to the humans and this is totally not the case for plants. Same thing for deep red, we can see it, but it's very dim for us. Plants actually see that better than the green light we see so well.
To be perfectly honest, I don't believe LEDs alone are worth using by themselves. At this point I think they make great supplemental lighting, they're just not quite ready for being stand-alone lights yet. That's why I'm doing a CFL/LED grow, using flowering and grow bulbs, also adding the LEDs to the sides. I can tell you that it's working very well. You can check my grow log if you'd like to see what I mean.
As for the grows out there...there's plenty of amazing LED only grows, but you just have to search hard for them. But trust me they are out there. In this stage of the LED game people need to invest in these types of lights, otherwise scientists don't have any funding to do further research and create better lights. CREE just created an LED that gives out 200/W. I think hps is 120/W. So eventually they'll figure out how to create that same efficiency for the color spectrum and not just white LEDs.
I'm interested in LEDs for a couple of reasons(and you'll find lots of other growers with the same growing criterion): They are relatively small compared to a big ass HPS bulb, they don't create as much heat so ventilation isn't as big a concern like it is with HPS, they have the most desired spectrums that plants need, they don't use as much electricity(more $$$ in savings!), and they can be placed a lot closer to the plants during flowering(which allows for lots of micro situations). I'm growing for personal use so it's not like I need huge ass bulbs or anything like that. Commercial growers won't be using LEDs for a long time because you need so many of them. I also don't like to hear anything coming from my grow area, I can't stand loud noisy fans and ballasts. Some of us don't really have the luxury of space. And my very last reason, I think they look so damn cool!
I'm a Minnesota Vikings fan so purple is a color I actually enjoy
and with the spectrums of LEDs needed, it should turn the plants a nice deep purple color to our eyes unless you add white LEDs, in which case it just gets lighter.So all in all, there are plenty of good reasons to use LEDs, but the biggest problem with them is the upfront cost(which deters most people). And they also don't penetrate a plant canopy anywhere near to the extent of an HID bulb. So HID users who try LEDs don't change their growing methods and wonder why they don't yield as much. It's just a different style of growing as well as a different lighting method, and lots of people don't understand this. Another main problem, most of the ebay crap and UFO's and whatnot. 90% of them come from overseas. They like to cut corners when using LEDs, so they don't use the proper spectrum. They also say 90w of LED is equal to 400w of HPS. BIG FUCKING LIE there! So it's very hard to find an LED light that has the proper spectrum, and isn't $1000+. That's why I think DIY is the best option for LEDs at the moment, which is another thing that deters people. They would rather just buy a light plug it in and go.
There are plenty of pros AND cons to using LEDs, bottom line is: use what works for you!
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