2nd time...still not getting it...

ok so my 2nd time around and I still don't know what i'm doing wrong...please, i need advice. my setup goes like this...8 plants in a homemade ebb and flow with a 264 gph water pump and 18 gallon res. my lighting...8-26w 5600k daylight cfls' = 1600 lumens each, 6-26w 2700k white cfls' = 1750 lumens each, for a combined total of 23,300 lumens!! I have a 20" fan constantly blowing on my babies at high speed. I also have a "Holmes" twin-blade window fan that I use for exhaust during the day and blowing cool air in at night. As you can see in the pics my grow space is about a 3'x3' corner of my bedroom. I have a "wall" that seperates the light from the plants and my bed that I sleep in. Even with all that, my plants still look like they are part of a bonsai family or something. My temp and humidity stay pretty much the same throughout the day. My ph is at 5.2-5.5 and i have always only used distilled water. Just today I put some fish fert in my resivoir because my plants are looking so small for being 3 weeks old. My ppm is 224. temp 86*F. humidity 56%. I DON'T KNOW WHAT I'M DOING WRONG...it is very aggravating to want something so much and yet have nothing but problems. Anyway please help me with some tips, advice, or just leave your temps and stats for me to reference. Thanks and check out my pics...first 4 are my plants(there is a watermelon plant in the mix...lol), then the next 2 are my grow area showing posterboard on the wall, the next 1 is the "wall" divider and my twin window fan, and finally my digital therm./hygometer. Thanks for replying!!!!!

bumb your ph up to 6.5!!!

Hmm... 86 is pretty warm for hydro.. whats ur res temp? Bad things happen above 75.. Most preferr 68 for the res temp.

What kind of weed are you growing?

Your nute load should be 50%-70% with RO

Your pH is kinda low.

What kind of meter do you use?.

Is fish stuff your only nutes?

I think you may be starving your plants.

Be careful and don't go to far the other way,
up the nute load slowly.

i still think the ph is way too low i think it should be in the range of 6/7.

chronic cipher said:

i still think the ph is way too low i think it should be in the range of 6/7.

Click to expand...

Are you growing hydro?

pH for most hydro is 5.6

and im sure you know everything dont u EARL!

chronic cipher said:

and im sure you know everything dont u EARL!

Click to expand...

I don't know how you grow.

wateva .......

You don't grow, do you child?

If your mama catches you here,
your gonna get grounded for life.

Catmandoob,
choose carefully who you take grow advice from.

If they don't have a grow journal,
and if they haven't documented some experience,
then you probly have read as much as they have.

Beware of the "Posers."

A lot of 13yo kids have 10 years of grow experience.

How does ur watering schedule go? They look under watered to me...

Thanks for the reply guys...Chron, most everything i've read talks about how ph in hydro is a little lower than that of soil. also, that in hydro typical ph should be between 5.2-5.8, leaving 5.5 as the average near perfect ph value. I will however keep your advice in mind while I do other research. thank you.

Flipside, i currently don't have a thermometer inside my res. instead i've been relying on my digi near the plants. i'm using a rubbermaid contain for my res though, and since it doesn't offer any insulation im sure that my res temp is same as my room temp...maybe a little lower. I have my water pump on a digital timer set to come on three times a day, every 8 hours. It floods up to an inch on the netpots for 3 minutes then shuts off and is allowed to drain. maybe I could try every 6 hours instead...?

Earl, the seeds are various bagseed that i've been holding on to for a min. some are from good bud, others are from regs. i think you can see the different plants in the pics i attached..? Anyway, I'm not sure about "nute load" but i can tell you that when i first filled the res with ro water my tds meter read "004". everyday since then it has jumped 2 points each day. it read "020" this afternoon. then i decided to try the fish fert. i also have GH FloraGrow and GH FloraMicro, but am not sure if they would burn my plants since they are so small. the alaskan fish fert said it won't burn so that's why im trying it right now instead. as of now, after i added the fish fert, my tds meter reads "264"...is that bad? too high?? I bought my tds meter from walgreens for 14 bucks, like i've seen many others on here...my ph tester is a vial that i fill, then add 4 drops of green stuff to, that i bought from the hydro store not to close to me...it's range is 4.0-10.0. By the way, thanks for the advice about the "posers". i've found many of them to be on the "Growpassion420" thread...

If I were you I would;
--bump ph to 5.8 or so--everyone has the # but your shit needs to come up
--figure a way to lower both temps, you NEED to know res. temp!
--maybe raise water level up to 1 more inch
--feed for 15 minute intervals 3 times a day
--keep ppm below 300 for now

how old are your plants?

that was to EARL obviously!!!

Angry aren't you?

Catmandoob, I think the fish stuff is for soil growing.

You need to use hydro nutes,
if you plan to grow hydro.

What kind of tds meter do you have?

I agree with some points made. PH should be around 5.6, each plant is a bit different, but for hydro (ebb and flow is hydro) 5.6 is the generally accepted value. A TDS meter measures total dissolved solids , IE nutrients. If you have no nutrients then the plants cannot grow. Get some real hydro nutes and pump up the TDS value to 600PPM, with hydroton clay balls you should be watering 3 times per day for 5 minutes each time. Try to keep reservoir temps under 70 to inhibit bacterial growth. Some superthrive could help things get going too, its commonly available and you only need 5-10 drops per gallon of water once per week. Once the plants are growing well the superthrive may not be needed any longer, although I have had good results using it all the way through veg.


You didn't show any pictures of the roots, For their to be any growth on top it will be preceded by lots of roots growing into the medium and out the bottom.


Once you get the bugs worked out those plants should be able to completely fill the grow area in 3 weeks time if the genetics of the seed are good.

pH should be 6.0 6.2 PPM is way low your plants are starving PPM should be 750 <>1250

NoDrama said:

I agree with some points made. PH should be around 5.6, each plant is a bit different, but for hydro (ebb and flow is hydro) 5.6 is the generally accepted value. A TDS meter measures total dissolved solids , IE nutrients. If you have no nutrients then the plants cannot grow. Get some real hydro nutes and pump up the TDS value to 600PPM, with hydroton clay balls you should be watering 3 times per day for 5 minutes each time. Try to keep reservoir temps under 70 to inhibit bacterial growth. Some superthrive could help things get going too, its commonly available and you only need 5-10 drops per gallon of water once per week. Once the plants are growing well the superthrive may not be needed any longer, although I have had good results using it all the way through veg.


You didn't show any pictures of the roots, For their to be any growth on top it will be preceded by lots of roots growing into the medium and out the bottom.


Once you get the bugs worked out those plants should be able to completely fill the grow area in 3 weeks time if the genetics of the seed are good.

Click to expand...

The pH your saying is nearly right but the PPM your syaing is way off 750<>1250 Is more like it ...

Maintaining the volume pH and TDS

pH/TDS maintenance requires measurements, and keeping their parameters within an acceptable range. For example, a pH range of 5.5 to 6.3. TDS ranges could be defined two ways, as a static ppm range (750 to 1250), or as a +/- percentage of the TDS for the original mix (+/-25% of 1000). Adjustments for pH/TDS are much more difficult to predict than water usage because the quantity and quality of the add back water itself has a profound affect on their outcome. Solution maintenance doesn't need to include interim pH/TDS adjustments (between add back sessions) when a gardener is deliberately using add backs to affect the pH/TDS ranges to his advantage. In other words, maintaining pH/TDS can become part of a deliberate volume adjustment program, thus allowing a gardener to kill two birds with one stone. See the Control Track article for more on predicting pH/TDS.
Maintaining the volume pH and TDS

pH/TDS maintenance requires measurements, and keeping their parameters within an acceptable range. For example, a pH range of 5.5 to 6.3. TDS ranges could be defined two ways, as a static ppm range (750 to 1250), or as a +/- percentage of the TDS for the original mix (+/-25% of 1000). Adjustments for pH/TDS are much more difficult to predict than water usage because the quantity and quality of the add back water itself has a profound affect on their outcome. Solution maintenance doesn't need to include interim pH/TDS adjustments (between add back sessions) when a gardener is deliberately using add backs to affect the pH/TDS ranges to his advantage. In other words, maintaining pH/TDS can become part of a deliberate volume adjustment program, thus allowing a gardener to kill two birds with one stone. See the Control Track article for more on predicting
Maintaining the volume pH and TDS

pH/TDS maintenance requires measurements, and keeping their parameters within an acceptable range. For example, a pH range of 5.5 to 6.3. TDS ranges could be defined two ways, as a static ppm range (750 to 1250), or as a +/- percentage of the TDS for the original mix (+/-25% of 1000). Adjustments for pH/TDS are much more difficult to predict than water usage because the quantity and quality of the add back water itself has a profound affect on their outcome. Solution maintenance doesn't need to include interim pH/TDS adjustments (between add back sessions) when a gardener is deliberately using add backs to affect the pH/TDS ranges to his advantage. In other words, maintaining pH/TDS can become part of a deliberate volume adjustment program, thus allowing a gardener to kill two birds with one stone. See the Control Track article for more on predicting pH/TDS.

pH/TDS maintenance requires measurements,
and keeping their parameters within an acceptable range.

For example, a pH range of 5.5 hydro, to 6.3 soil.

TDS ranges could be defined two ways,
as a static ppm range (750 to 1250),
or as a percentage of the TDS for the original mix
(for example 25% of 1000)

This is called the "nute load".

Adjustments for pH/TDS
are much more difficult to predict,
than water usage,
because the quality of the add back water itself
has a profound affect on their outcome.

This is why it is important to use RO


Solution maintenance doesn't need to include interim pH/TDS adjustments (between add back sessions)
when a gardener is deliberately using add backs to affect the pH/TDS ranges to his advantage.

In other words, maintaining pH/TDS,
can become part of a deliberate volume adjustment program,
thus allowing a gardener to kill two birds with one stone.

See the Control Track article for more on predicting pH/TDS.

.

On my second grow in the SS,
I used a chart very similar to his "control track".

This grow was RO, and DM nutes.

20 Oct

1100 5.75 633 -

Applied LL (Liquid Light)
Lowered lights to 14 inches

1530 5.60 629 -
1730 5.69 636 -
1930 5.61 633 -

21 Oct

0830 5.82 635 -
1230 5.71 631 -

Flush ( although the ph is still in parameter,
I did not like the smell of the rez after 10 days
it was starting to smell musty)

1245 6.25 038 -

nutes:
190mlA&B
19ml max-fx
19ml Zone

1250 6.25 600 5.55
1600 5.94 570 -
2330 5.73 527 -

22 Oct

0730 LL

0730 5.52 521 -

0800 5.52 524 5.61
+0.6 ml Barricade


...............................................................
example of how to read the numbers:

1300 5.9 450 5.6

The first number is the time: 1300
the second number is the pH when the observation was made: 5.9
The third number is the tds: 450
the fourth number means he pH was adjusted: 5.6.
if there is a - for the fourth number,
then no pH adjustment was made.

Here is a link where I documented the Afghan tds/pH .

Afghan Space Shuttle