2010: hottest year ever despite solar activity at record low

NoDrama said:

ALL the big oil companies are HIGHLY invested in green technologies, they hedge all bets.

1 degree in 100 years does not qualify as rapid temperature change, it qualifies as 1 degree F.

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Yep, Al is everyone's Hero.

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i see you have abandoned any attempt to answer the questions i posed to you and chose to demonize someone who is basically a caricature anyway. nice sidestep.

1 degree is clearly just the start, and we are clearly the cause. this is not even disputed by the people being paid by exxon to muddy the waters.

EDIT - and nice copy & paste follow up. science is clearly on your side here

but i'm sorry, you were saying something to the tune of 'everybody is out to get my lucky charms'.... sorry to interrupt. exactly how and who wants what and why? please explain to me this conspiracy, as i've said before, i'm not part of the elite who are privy to this farce

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I can find the quote but you will have to ask for it. There is video tape of the current president explaining that for green technology to be viable the current cost for coal and natural gas would necessarily have to skyrocket.

SKYROCKET.. Not my term, his term.

Cap and trade is basically a tax on pollution. The tax would be passed on to the consumer through the corporations. This would necessarily cause our energy costs to go up.

The president has repeatedly tried to put a moratorium on oil drilling in the gulf. He is working on #3 after the courts overruled the first two. He is telling us that we need to become less dependent on foreign oil while implementing policies that make us MORE dependent on foreign oil. Which puts OPEC and other suppliers who are not exactly our friends in a larger bargaining position over fuel prices.

exactly how and who wants what and why? please explain to me this conspiracy, as i've said before, i'm not part of the elite who are privy to this farce

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The president and the environmentalists, wants to raise taxes on gas and coal, to make green energy competitive... P.S. It is not a conspiracy. The president has clearly outlined his plan on video tape for your enjoyment.

UncleBuck said:

and if you deny climate change altogether

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That would be silly... I AGREED THAT THE CLIMATE WAS CHANGING IN MY FIRST POST.

or do something to obfuscate the issue

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Which issue? The debate over global warming being man made?

you get WAYYYYY more lucratively funded by exxonmobil, the heritage foundation, or others trying to advance a viewpoint for personal gain rather than do the right thing based on overwhelming evidence and scientific concensus.

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Could you please link to any proof of this?

Let me explain something to you UB... Corporations are out to make a profit. They dont care what the product is as long as it keeps the money rolling in.

The reason that coal and gas are the primary fuel sources of this nation is because they are cheap. It costs alot more to use other fuel types such as wind and solar if it is even possible.

Now, once we develop the technology that makes something else cheaper the corporations will make that...

NLXSK1 said:

That would be silly... I AGREED THAT THE CLIMATE WAS CHANGING IN MY FIRST POST.



Which issue? The debate over global warming being man made?



Could you please link to any proof of this?

Let me explain something to you UB... Corporations are out to make a profit. They dont care what the product is as long as it keeps the money rolling in.

The reason that coal and gas are the primary fuel sources of this nation is because they are cheap. It costs alot more to use other fuel types such as wind and solar if it is even possible.

Now, once we develop the technology that makes something else cheaper the corporations will make that...

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That's nice....but what planet do you live on?

The energy we use right now is anything but cheap. We're ripping up mountains for coal, tearing up the sea floor for oil and destroying most of our natural resources in the process. That seems like a pretty high price to me. Just because you don't pay for it at the pump doesn't mean there is no cost to what we're doing.

Who is going to develop that technology? Government? All they can do is incentivize the right kind of energy and that's exactly what cap and trade is about, but you guys want none of that.

The problem isn't the cars we're driving. It's the asphalt we drive them on. Get rid of heating pads that are "holding the heat" in these big cities and the temperature won't be a problem. It's not like this is some unknown phenomena. Phoenix is something like 10-15f warmer at night than it used to be.

abe23 said:

That's nice....but what planet do you live on?

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Earth...

The energy we use right now is anything but cheap.

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Cheap compared with other sources of energy.

We're ripping up mountains for coal, tearing up the sea floor for oil and destroying most of our natural resources in the process.

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This is a cliche...

Just because you don't pay for it at the pump doesn't mean there is no cost to what we're doing.

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Have you seen what a landfill looks like once a golf course is planted over it? Do you realize how much cleaner America is than just 100 years ago? There were rivers that caught on fire due to pollution back in the 20's I believe.

Who is going to develop that technology?

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Corporations. They do it all the time. When the price of oil skyrocketed above 80 dollars a barrel the cost of the energy would have allowed them to harvest it from shale. At a lower price it is not economical to do this because their are CHEAPER ways to get oil.

Government? All they can do is incentivize the right kind of energy and that's exactly what cap and trade is about, but you guys want none of that.

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Again, cap and trade is a tax on gas and coal to force green energy such as solar and wind to be more competitive.

Here is the cycle. We use gas and oil until there is a shortage and the costs become prohibitive. Then some company develops an alternative cheaper fuel or technology that reduces the costs. We then switch to that technology.

Putting punitive environmental measures solely on America in the form of excessive taxation to force an agenda is simply political and ideological. If China and India are not interested in going along, all of our efforts will result in a slower economy, less jobs and less productivity for the country, for our country.

NLXSK1 said:

I can find the quote but you will have to ask for it. There is video tape of the current president explaining that for green technology to be viable the current cost for coal and natural gas would necessarily have to skyrocket.

SKYROCKET.. Not my term, his term.

Cap and trade is basically a tax on pollution. The tax would be passed on to the consumer through the corporations. This would necessarily cause our energy costs to go up.

The president has repeatedly tried to put a moratorium on oil drilling in the gulf. He is working on #3 after the courts overruled the first two. He is telling us that we need to become less dependent on foreign oil while implementing policies that make us MORE dependent on foreign oil. Which puts OPEC and other suppliers who are not exactly our friends in a larger bargaining position over fuel prices.

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i've heard the statement...it is vacuously true, not proof of a conspiracy designed by environmentalists and administered by obama to take nlsxk1's money.

cap and trade is an economically sound idea. we can debate its merits all you want but that is not even close to what this thread is about.

and are you really so deluded as to believe that obama just issued a moratorium on drilling because of some conspiracy to make us more dependent on foreign oil? dude, lay off the fox news. seriously.

NLXSK1 said:

The president and the environmentalists, wants to raise taxes on gas and coal, to make green energy competitive... P.S. It is not a conspiracy. The president has clearly outlined his plan on video tape for your enjoyment.

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because sustainable energies with their ROI are such a horrible idea...why would i want make the investment to put solar panels on my house and be making money every month when i could be paying money every month for the electric company to burn coal and send me the result on a horribly inefficient and antiquated power grid?

if the president has this plan to tax coal and gas he is doing a horrible job of it by offering incentives to weatherproof your home or invest in energy efficient appliances.

but i forgot....everybody is just out to get your money

NLXSK1 said:

Let me explain something to you UB... Corporations are out to make a profit. They dont care what the product is as long as it keeps the money rolling in.

The reason that coal and gas are the primary fuel sources of this nation is because they are cheap. It costs alot more to use other fuel types such as wind and solar if it is even possible.

Now, once we develop the technology that makes something else cheaper the corporations will make that...

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i already posted an article about exxonmobil funding efforts to obfuscate the issue, which has been going on since 2007. they are using a campaign very similar to what big tobacco did...in fact, they even used some of the same groups that were established to dent the effects of secondhand smoke. but i guess you don't read it unless it is fox news....so here you go again.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kert-davies/revealed-exxon-secret-fun_b_208269.html

http://priceofoil.org/2009/07/02/exxon-still-funding-sceptics/


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming#Other_views


and how are competing energies not already cheaper? like biodiesel? or solar? where are the electric cars? are you so naive as to believe that 'if it's cheaper, corporations will make that instead'? is that why they spend so much convincing us that there is no problem at all with their dirty coal or polluting gasoline?

it gets pretty tiring listening to people talk about how cheap these dirty fuels are because they are so short-sighted they can not see the looming economic and humanatarian disaster their effects will most certainly cause. kind of like how it is cheaper to dispose of hazardous waste into the river rather than doing it properly....until the river catches fire...sevral times!

NoDrama said:

ALL the big oil companies are HIGHLY invested in green technologies, they hedge all bets.

1 degree in 100 years does not qualify as rapid temperature change, it qualifies as 1 degree F.

View attachment 1049162



Yep, Al is everyone's Hero.

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I wouldn't swear to this, but I think I saw on a documentary that a 4 degree change in global average temperatures would be catastrophic. It's been a while back, but I think that's what they said. If I'm right there, and I apologize for not being able to give a reference, then 1 degree is much more significant than it might seem.

UncleBuck said:

i already posted an article about exxonmobil funding efforts to obfuscate the issue, which has been going on since 2007. they are using a campaign very similar to what big tobacco did...in fact, they even used some of the same groups that were established to dent the effects of secondhand smoke. but i guess you don't read it unless it is fox news....so here you go again.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kert-davies/revealed-exxon-secret-fun_b_208269.html

http://priceofoil.org/2009/07/02/exxon-still-funding-sceptics/


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming#Other_views


and how are competing energies not already cheaper? like biodiesel? or solar? where are the electric cars? are you so naive as to believe that 'if it's cheaper, corporations will make that instead'? is that why they spend so much convincing us that there is no problem at all with their dirty coal or polluting gasoline?

it gets pretty tiring listening to people talk about how cheap these dirty fuels are because they are so short-sighted they can not see the looming economic and humanatarian disaster their effects will most certainly cause. kind of like how it is cheaper to dispose of hazardous waste into the river rather than doing it properly....until the river catches fire...sevral times!

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How do electric cars solve the problem if the majority of electricity is still produced from coal or oil? Why is it none of the environmentalists ever support horse and buggies? Or are you really of the idea if you don't see it burn oil it doesn't happen?

this is a funny thread. by my calculations 2010 has about SIX FRICKEN MONTHS TILL OVER and already chicken little is screaming. make up the data as you go boys, nobody is listening anymore.

ummm, where to start...

the data is not being made up...the dude was exonerated (funny enough, that piece of news got a mere fraction of the coverage the original unfounded accustion, must be the liberal media...lolz)

and no 2, i was just pointing out that SO FAR we are in the midst of the hottest year ever...despite a low in solar irradiance.

for only two sentences, you sure managed a lot of FAIL

i joined the army in 2002 because the boy scouts couldnt teach me any more... i have lived off the grid for a few years already just for fun living off of the land. i go back and forth between civilization and middle of the woods fending for myself. i do it for fun and i am ready for anything that happens to come my way. northern new hampshire in december isnt a joke, those mtns kill ppl every year but its my true home and i cant get enough. my wife knew my past and let me take her camping for 6 months after i got out of the service... she hates every bit of it but i know that if and when the day comes im ready to take over the world. i dont know if glopa wappa is real or not i am far form a scientist, i am a survivalist and i dont really care if half the world dies out. i will continue to take care of my own.

mr.mike said:

i joined the army in 2002 because the boy scouts couldnt teach me any more... i have lived off the grid for a few years already just for fun living off of the land. i go back and forth between civilization and middle of the woods fending for myself. i do it for fun and i am ready for anything that happens to come my way. northern new hampshire in december isnt a joke, those mtns kill ppl every year but its my true home and i cant get enough. my wife knew my past and let me take her camping for 6 months after i got out of the service... she hates every bit of it but i know that if and when the day comes im ready to take over the world. i dont know if glopa wappa is real or not i am far form a scientist, i am a survivalist and i dont really care if half the world dies out. i will continue to take care of my own.

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i think i flew on a plane with you into colorado springs.

small world!

mr.mike said:

i joined the army in 2002 because the boy scouts couldnt teach me any more... i have lived off the grid for a few years already just for fun living off of the land. i go back and forth between civilization and middle of the woods fending for myself. i do it for fun and i am ready for anything that happens to come my way. northern new hampshire in december isnt a joke, those mtns kill ppl every year but its my true home and i cant get enough. my wife knew my past and let me take her camping for 6 months after i got out of the service... she hates every bit of it but i know that if and when the day comes im ready to take over the world. i dont know if glopa wappa is real or not i am far form a scientist, i am a survivalist and i dont really care if half the world dies out. i will continue to take care of my own.

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I've always wanted to be a survivalist. I've been bit by a rattlesnake and by a copperhead on different occasions. That's all it took to keep me out of them there woods. I won't never go back. More power to you bro.

so what if man is making the planet hotter. what are you doing to stop it and why do you even care?

i'll tell you. you want to simply say "i am better than you, i am helping educate people and i care". then you drive to where ever you need to drive to while you blame everyone else.

how redundant is this whole politics section? same 100 arguments, day in and day out. NONE of you have ever won a single one of them.

fdd2blk said:

so what if man is making the planet hotter. what are you doing to stop it and why do you even care?

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i don't really care so much, i've said before i come here to troll for lolz. watching stoners disagree with the experts in the field is easy pickings.

fdd2blk said:

i'll tell you. you want to simply say "i am better than you, i am helping educate people and i care". then you drive to where ever you need to drive to while you blame everyone else.

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while i find it creepy that you stalk me and thus know my personal habits, i would like to point out some things you might have missed while on break from your 24/7 surveillance of my daily activities. i brush my teeth out of a glass of water. i follow the 'yellow leave it mellow' philosophy (only in my bathroom, my wife is not a subscriber to this policy). i replaced 20+ incandescents in my home with cfls (admittedly, i had them left over from previous grows, but it still counts). i turn of lights when i leave rooms. i unplug everything in my house when i go on vacation. i often take public transportation (again, partly selfish, i like to ride the train while i am high rather than drive). i support companies with a green focus. i wait until 4,500 miles to change the oil intead of 3K. I carry renewable bags to the grocery store. i cross state lines to recycle all my cans and bottles once a month (again, selfish since i make money off of doing so). i support candidates who lobby for the environment. i could probably name a few more, that is all that comes to mind offhand.

fdd2blk said:

how redundant is this whole politics section? same 100 arguments, day in and day out. NONE of you have ever won a single one of them.

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agreed. which is why it is fun to troll. sometimes it even makes people question their own logic...which is never a bad thing. i prefer a viewpoint that constantly evolves based on new information rather than one that stays stuck for the sake of avoiding cognitive dissonance.

UncleBuck said:

i wait until 4,500 miles to change the oil intead of 3K.

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My '86 accord has been running off the same oil since '96. I've added to it but that's about it. You can't get any greener than that. Stop polluting the world with your waste oil.

And I'm glad to see you really don't believe in electric cars. Those things are stupid! I laugh every time I see a smart car. I always offer to put them in the back of the truck and so they can save the efficiency conversion.

prolonging the agony.