1800 watts Sealed and CO2 Enriched."A Teachers Learning Process"

Shrubs First

Shrubs First

Well-Known Member
Got that Gavita hooked up. Ready to begin my next round. Clones are in, and I'm waitin on bumpin roots.

Crop this time is going to be half Krome's White, and half Pestilence from Inkognyto. Also will have a cut
of the Diablo OG to test out in here. Anyway, look at how small this 1000 Watt Gavita hood is compared
to my 600 watts. It spreads light like nothing I've ever seen before. And is the brightest, SOB I've ever
tried to grow plants with. I'm stoked.

​
 
J

jesushadafender

Well-Known Member
Lookin real solid man. Whats the heat like compared to a traditional 1000w unvented HPS? Cant wait to see you rock that Diablo I think thats something Im really gonna play with. Lots of peoples favorite cut of OG actually. Most likely its just an S1 of some other cut of OG (Tahoe, SFV, etc) but still rockin none the less. Lookin good brah!
 
Shrubs First

Shrubs First

Well-Known Member
jesushadafender said:
Lookin real solid man. Whats the heat like compared to a traditional 1000w unvented HPS? Cant wait to see you rock that Diablo I think thats something Im really gonna play with. Lots of peoples favorite cut of OG actually. Most likely its just an S1 of some other cut of OG (Tahoe, SFV, etc) but still rockin none the less. Lookin good brah!
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The AC seems to handle it no problem. It's pretty warm, not going to lie. There's no glass, and Gavita's plan is that the small reflector gets the light out as fast as possible with no wasted time/space. I also believe there is not a very focused hot spot, the light is very well spread.

I stand underneath 24,000 watts for hours a day at work. But coming home the past two days and just being in the same room as one of these gives me a headache after a few minutes. It is astonishingly bright.
 
roachclip420

roachclip420

Active Member
I know this is a little off topic, but still has to do with Gavita...Remember that vid you posted about the rep talking about how air cooling causes you to lose lumens? This is not correct. I watched a test with air cooled/non air cooled with 2 different hoods and both times the air cooled put out more lumens. Using pyrex glass actually magnifyed the light aswell. I still got my eyes on a couple of these babies, but it makes no sense why he would blatantly lie like that. Stupid mj consumers buying into bs.
 
Kite High

Kite High

Well-Known Member
roachclip420 said:
I know this is a little off topic, but still has to do with Gavita...Remember that vid you posted about the rep talking about how air cooling causes you to lose lumens? This is not correct. I watched a test with air cooled/non air cooled with 2 different hoods and both times the air cooled put out more lumens. Using pyrex glass actually magnifyed the light aswell. I still got my eyes on a couple of these babies, but it makes no sense why he would blatantly lie like that. Stupid mj consumers buying into bs.
Click to expand...
link or it is bs
 
Shrubs First

Shrubs First

Well-Known Member
roachclip420 said:
I know this is a little off topic, but still has to do with Gavita...Remember that vid you posted about the rep talking about how air cooling causes you to lose lumens? This is not correct. I watched a test with air cooled/non air cooled with 2 different hoods and both times the air cooled put out more lumens. Using pyrex glass actually magnifyed the light aswell. I still got my eyes on a couple of these babies, but it makes no sense why he would blatantly lie like that. Stupid mj consumers buying into bs.
Click to expand...
I do remember that video. Gavita has been testing in the industry for a very long time. I would
enjoy seeing your video where air cooled hood out performed the non air cooled hood. Everything
he says in the video makes sense. Also 5-8% of light loss through glass is a very agreed upon number
in the lighting manufacturing industry. And that's with clean glass, so a dirty/dusty glass hood could
dramatically reduce output. The cooling of the bulb does seem to be a more difficult sell, but I can tell
you from direct experience of cooling bulbs. I can stare, literally, stare at all 24 of my thousand watt
bulbs while they are on at the commercial warehouse. I can see the arc tube in the bulb clearly, and how it
is separately defined from the outer bulb casing. I can't even do this with my Gavita when it is set to 600 watts.
It is already too bright. It hurts my eyes and gives me a headache. This is my only personal evidence.
I'm convinced.

In my opinion, where stupid MJ consumer bought into BS is when they started buying BIGGER hoods. Ocho's, and
all the other huge hoods only create more distance for the bulb to travel before it is reflected. The claim to "spread"
the light, but really you don't need 4 feet of sheet metal to do that. A tiny reflector simply directing the light down
does the same thing. And depending on the angle of the aluminum, the hot spot should be negligible.

40 years of grow reflector manufacturing and only now do these companies begin producing bigger and bigger hoods. They
didn't make the lights more and more wattage, but they did make these giant hoods twice as expensive.. Gavita is convincing because they are upping efficiency in areas already prevalent in the grow industry, while being extremely market competitive, in terms of price / technological output. A quality 1000 watt digital ballast costs $300, at least. A quality NON oversized reflector (like a daystar AC) costs $150, and a quality bulb costs about $125-$150. That's $550-$600, I spent $600 on the gavita which is the most advanced ballast, a new style of hood, which I find to be of the HIGHEST
efficiency, and the bulb which is a 400V bulb converting to 240V through the ballast. A 400V bulb has the highest frequency
output of any grow bulb, that's a fact. And the higher the frequency, the more similarly the light resembles the sun.

Sit back and enjoy the show, I have a feeling two sunpulse halides and a Gavita Pro is a recipe for some amazing herb.
 
J

jesushadafender

Well-Known Member
Dirty glass is a big fucking problem and Ive seen it first hand where I know my yield has suffered by simply being to lazy at the beginning of the round to clean off hoods etc. I agree with the 5-8% with glass I feel thats right in the range of lumen loss. I will say however I have had drastic increase in yield since I switched from Daystars to Blockbusters a year or two ago. I feel maybe this isnt so much of spread from the light but more of a dispersion of the hot spot on the blockbusters as I feel the Daystars have a major hotspot right underneath them, IMO. Magnums though are a bit ridiculous and IMO spread the light too thin. Personally, I wont own a Gavita until they figure out how to deal with the heat in a better manner than simply installing a bigger split unit, etc. In larger rooms you could probably get away with it, like say in a warehouse where some of the heat has some place to dissipate while your flooding it with cold air. Interesting, cant wait to see how it all comes together
 
Shrubs First

Shrubs First

Well-Known Member
jesushadafender said:
Dirty glass is a big fucking problem and Ive seen it first hand where I know my yield has suffered by simply being to lazy at the beginning of the round to clean off hoods etc. I agree with the 5-8% with glass I feel thats right in the range of lumen loss. I will say however I have had drastic increase in yield since I switched from Daystars to Blockbusters a year or two ago. I feel maybe this isnt so much of spread from the light but more of a dispersion of the hot spot on the blockbusters as I feel the Daystars have a major hotspot right underneath them, IMO. Magnums though are a bit ridiculous and IMO spread the light too thin. Personally, I wont own a Gavita until they figure out how to deal with the heat in a better manner than simply installing a bigger split unit, etc. In larger rooms you could probably get away with it, like say in a warehouse where some of the heat has some place to dissipate while your flooding it with cold air. Interesting, cant wait to see how it all comes together
Click to expand...
Haha, i totally hear you. "Too much heat problems? Get a bigger AC!"
 
roachclip420

roachclip420

Active Member
Shrubs First said:
I do remember that video. Gavita has been testing in the industry for a very long time. I would
enjoy seeing your video where air cooled hood out performed the non air cooled hood. Everything
he says in the video makes sense. Also 5-8% of light loss through glass is a very agreed upon number
in the lighting manufacturing industry. And that's with clean glass, so a dirty/dusty glass hood could
dramatically reduce output. The cooling of the bulb does seem to be a more difficult sell, but I can tell
you from direct experience of cooling bulbs. I can stare, literally, stare at all 24 of my thousand watt
bulbs while they are on at the commercial warehouse. I can see the arc tube in the bulb clearly, and how it
is separately defined from the outer bulb casing. I can't even do this with my Gavita when it is set to 600 watts.
It is already too bright. It hurts my eyes and gives me a headache. This is my only personal evidence.
I'm convinced.

In my opinion, where stupid MJ consumer bought into BS is when they started buying BIGGER hoods. Ocho's, and
all the other huge hoods only create more distance for the bulb to travel before it is reflected. The claim to "spread"
the light, but really you don't need 4 feet of sheet metal to do that. A tiny reflector simply directing the light down
does the same thing. And depending on the angle of the aluminum, the hot spot should be negligible.

40 years of grow reflector manufacturing and only now do these companies begin producing bigger and bigger hoods. They
didn't make the lights more and more wattage, but they did make these giant hoods twice as expensive.. Gavita is convincing because they are upping efficiency in areas already prevalent in the grow industry, while being extremely market competitive, in terms of price / technological output. A quality 1000 watt digital ballast costs $300, at least. A quality NON oversized reflector (like a daystar AC) costs $150, and a quality bulb costs about $125-$150. That's $550-$600, I spent $600 on the gavita which is the most advanced ballast, a new style of hood, which I find to be of the HIGHEST
efficiency, and the bulb which is a 400V bulb converting to 240V through the ballast. A 400V bulb has the highest frequency
output of any grow bulb, that's a fact. And the higher the frequency, the more similarly the light resembles the sun.

Sit back and enjoy the show, I have a feeling two sunpulse halides and a Gavita Pro is a recipe for some amazing herb.
Click to expand...
I had a feeling my comment was going to be misunderstand. Wasn't ment to be a trolling remark at all. It wasn't a video but my buddy did it with pics of the readings on another forum that is much smaller, more close knit, and personal(no personal gain from sharing information). I wasn't comparing air cooled hps to gavitas or say glass doesn't remove lumens. Those have already been proven. I was simply saying that measurements taken with the same bulb being air cooled(and lowered because of cooler hood)/not air cooled were not what you would expect. Again I'm not trolling or starting bs. Just find it annoying how companies bend facts and deceive. You can also use a mushroom filter for your intake, that will solve the dusty glass problem.

This first test will look for the difference in a horizontal 250 watt cmh in an air cooled reflector with tempered glass and without tempered glass.

The light is leveled off and is positioned 13" above a Hydrofarm Light meter that only tests foot candles. I'm looking at UV meters to order so hopefully by next week I'll run this same test with a UV meter and I'll be doing the fc and UV tests on pyrex glass too.

The test scenario




Test result without glass





Test result with glass




This is far from being a 30% loss in light and in fact I would say it's hardly noticable.
However without glass the reflector and bulb gets extremely hot. Having the glass in and being able to exaust it not only gets the reflector cool to the touch it makes it possible like MC said to lower the light down onto the canopy.
Now lets look at the result with glass installed and the height reduced to only 6" above the meter which is about what air cooling a hid bulb allows the grower to do.....Reduce the distance between bulb and plant by as much as 50% if not more



Numbers dont lie my friends. This test shows that an air cooled reflector with glass can actually increase (nearly doubles!!!) the light effectivness over the plants by simply hanging the light much lower than hanging them higher without glass
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Of course this test was down with a 250w cmh so the difference with a 1k would be a bit more noticeable, but still could be fixed with lowering the light. My apologies on getting you started on your reflector rant ;-)

Also OUCH on staring directly into 1k's. Either your bulbs are dimming or your eyes are a lot less sensitive than mine...600s hurt mine :confused:
 
Shrubs First

Shrubs First

Well-Known Member
No stress. I didn't think you were trolling. Just a difference of opinions. I don't mean to
come across as adversarial.

The problem I see with having to lower the hood with your cooling is the reduction of light spread.

Say you want to overlap your lights and really pound the lumens on the plants. One bulb does not
crush yields. Overlapping light is where you crush the yields. One light casts N photons on X number
of plants, two lights cast 2N photons on X number of plants. I much prefer a raised system than trying
to cram my hoods as close to the plants as possible. I notice much much healthier growth, and not to
mention a higher tested cannabinoid content.

We change our bulbs every year. So they shouldn't be "dimming" unless it's indeed because of the air-cooling,
which is what I suspect.


An example of proper distance.





Those are using Ochos, which I don't prefer but this guy knows how to use them.
 
roachclip420

roachclip420

Active Member
Awesome reply shrubs, after this run I have learned exactly that. I have a 600 in a 4x4 tent and also 2x600 right outside of it and there will definitely be a higher gpw and more frost under the 2x600. It's actually very noticeable. But again this started as me commenting on the wise remark by the Gavita rep...Sorry for the hijack bro lol.

But since we are on the topic... I'm looking to either run 6x600(two rows of three) or four 1k gavitas(2x2). I'm kind of stuck in the middle because of that "overlap" effect and the fact I can't budge myself to pay top dollar for older tech and less watts. I know you don't have personal experience with the gavita's yet, but I would enjoy hearing your opinion on this if you wouldn't mind.
 
Shrubs First

Shrubs First

Well-Known Member
roachclip420 said:
Awesome reply shrubs, after this run I have learned exactly that. I have a 600 in a 4x4 tent and also 2x600 right outside of it and there will definitely be a higher gpw and more frost under the 2x600. It's actually very noticeable. But again this started as me commenting on the wise remark by the Gavita rep...Sorry for the hijack bro lol.

But since we are on the topic... I'm looking to either run 6x600(two rows of three) or four 1k gavitas(2x2). I'm kind of stuck in the middle because of that "overlap" effect and the fact I can't budge myself to pay top dollar for older tech and less watts. I know you don't have personal experience with the gavita's yet, but I would enjoy hearing your opinion on this if you wouldn't mind.
Click to expand...


I've a good buddy who had the same dilemma. He went with the 600's but worked his way to the 1000's and
is much happier. Gavita does make 600 watt bulbs in this same style. They also have other styles of
hoods which resemble the more classic look, the triple star is a sick reflector that can reflect a-symmetrically if y you want. Hopefully Jesushadafender will chime in, he knows what's up.


If you can handle the heat, you will pay for the 1000's faster than the 600's. And overlapping 1000's is epic.
 
roachclip420

roachclip420

Active Member
Shrubs First said:
I've a good buddy who had the same dilemma. He went with the 600's but worked his way to the 1000's and
is much happier. Gavita does make 600 watt bulbs in this same style. They also have other styles of
hoods which resemble the more classic look, the triple star is a sick reflector that can reflect a-symmetrically if y you want. Hopefully Jesushadafender will chime in, he knows what's up.


If you can handle the heat, you will pay for the 1000's faster than the 600's. And overlapping 1000's is epic.
Click to expand...
I was about to run with the gavita 600's but they aren't the same as the 1k's. Different bulbs and I believe different ballast tech? Not to mention if I went with gavita I would have to rewire for 240 and I feel like if I was going through the hassle of that I might as well just go all the way with the 1k's lol. My a/c will be upgraded anyways and I only pay .05 per kw so electricity isn't exactly a problem. The more I think about it I think I could spread the 1k's out enough to have roughly the same footprint as 6x600 while keeping an overlapping effect. But still not confident with a decision. :?
 
marc88101

marc88101

Well-Known Member
I just went through this thread for about an hour and a half, I read every word and looked at every picture...What an Amazing Grow!!!!!! Maybe the best one I have ever seen. Thank you for posting it and bringing it to life, full circle. I felt like I was right there with you in the room. I couldnt wait to see the next page...GREAT JOB!!!!!
 
Bird Gymnastics

Bird Gymnastics

New Member
roachclip420 said:
I was about to run with the gavita 600's but they aren't the same as the 1k's. Different bulbs and I believe different ballast tech? Not to mention if I went with gavita I would have to rewire for 240 and I feel like if I was going through the hassle of that I might as well just go all the way with the 1k's lol. My a/c will be upgraded anyways and I only pay .05 per kw so electricity isn't exactly a problem. The more I think about it I think I could spread the 1k's out enough to have roughly the same footprint as 6x600 while keeping an overlapping effect. But still not confident with a decision. :?
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.05 per kw? Where are you man? I'm moving there :) that is literally 1/3 of what I pay. Ha ha gavitas are where it's at. I think you nailed it right on the money Shrubs....a gavita plus two mh is going to make a perfect recipe for even better meds :weed:
 
J

jesushadafender

Well-Known Member
roachclip420 said:
I was about to run with the gavita 600's but they aren't the same as the 1k's. Different bulbs and I believe different ballast tech? Not to mention if I went with gavita I would have to rewire for 240 and I feel like if I was going through the hassle of that I might as well just go all the way with the 1k's lol. My a/c will be upgraded anyways and I only pay .05 per kw so electricity isn't exactly a problem. The more I think about it I think I could spread the 1k's out enough to have roughly the same footprint as 6x600 while keeping an overlapping effect. But still not confident with a decision. :?
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Should be confident. Go with the 1000s I had a room of like 8 600s and I really like having rooms of 6 1000w instead. Yield is bigger, buds are better, quality is better. I will never ever run 600s again unless its not by choice. Always worth the upgrade. Now thats not to say they dont work. In fact, my largest yield ever was off some Mcfly with mis matching a few 1000s but the rest of the room 600s. I pulled like 13 1/2 ps off of 5800w while I was moving. They even had hardcore heat stress and still turned out fantastic. Overlapping 1000ws is where you get the yield. A single 1000w over the bed will yield, dont get me wrong but when people are talking about hitting the 2p + / 1000w ratio, they definitely have overlapping light help them out. Re wire your shit bro, youll thank yourself later when you can put in a badass split unit or other fun toys that operate on that voltage. I dont know what I would do without a 200 amp panel and 240v going to 2 of my rooms.
 
roachclip420

roachclip420

Active Member
Bird Gymnastics said:
.05 per kw? Where are you man? I'm moving there :) that is literally 1/3 of what I pay. Ha ha gavitas are where it's at. I think you nailed it right on the money Shrubs....a gavita plus two mh is going to make a perfect recipe for even better meds :weed:
Click to expand...
a sample bill from my utilities companies site :fire:
electric'.png

jesushadafender said:
Should be confident. Go with the 1000s I had a room of like 8 600s and I really like having rooms of 6 1000w instead. Yield is bigger, buds are better, quality is better. I will never ever run 600s again unless its not by choice. Always worth the upgrade. Now thats not to say they dont work. In fact, my largest yield ever was off some Mcfly with mis matching a few 1000s but the rest of the room 600s. I pulled like 13 1/2 ps off of 5800w while I was moving. They even had hardcore heat stress and still turned out fantastic. Overlapping 1000ws is where you get the yield. A single 1000w over the bed will yield, dont get me wrong but when people are talking about hitting the 2p + / 1000w ratio, they definitely have overlapping light help them out. Re wire your shit bro, youll thank yourself later when you can put in a badass split unit or other fun toys that operate on that voltage. I dont know what I would do without a 200 amp panel and 240v going to 2 of my rooms.
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Thanks for the reply buddy, this input will put some weight on my decision. Shrubs seems to show a lot of respect towards you so obviously you know your stuff.
 
kriznarf

kriznarf

Active Member
Haven't been on RIU in a while. Was hoping there might be some updates here. Hope all is well with the personal operation, Shrubs. Would love to hear some further thoughts on the Gavita as well, since you've had one rocking for a couple months now, I think.
 
SFguy

SFguy

Well-Known Member
roachclip420 said:
I was about to run with the gavita 600's but they aren't the same as the 1k's. Different bulbs and I believe different ballast tech? Not to mention if I went with gavita I would have to rewire for 240 and I feel like if I was going through the hassle of that I might as well just go all the way with the 1k's lol. My a/c will be upgraded anyways and I only pay .05 per kw so electricity isn't exactly a problem. The more I think about it I think I could spread the 1k's out enough to have roughly the same footprint as 6x600 while keeping an overlapping effect. But still not confident with a decision. :?
Click to expand...
.05 per kw... fuuuu ck.. thats CHEEEEEEEPP!!! im closer to 30 cents i think if i read my bill right, im on a tierd rating schedule... what are you payin right now if ya dont mind me askin?? can i move in ill pay the whole bill... hahahha
 
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