15 day old "Cheese" problem pics input appreciated

Germinated 15 days ago using "mini-greenhouse"method. 20 oz. styro cup . Heated 6 penny nail hot and melted 5 drain holes for drainage. Pre-soaked in distilled H20, stretched Saran Wrap over top, rubber banded in place. Germination was rapid (3 days) A bit later for my S.Lemon Haze but both strains took off quickly under a 6500k, 125W, CFL with "Brightwing"with robust, healthy growth. Germed and grown in Happy Frog with no nutes of any kind added. I only watered when the cups felt light and lower 1 1/2" felt light and gave only 2-4 ounces of distilled H20 until it ran out of drain holes. Did not run fan until 3/13 and only run it for a few hours at the time as heat is not a issue and only wanted hardier stems. Noticed a bit of discoloration on the lower leaves and it has gotte worse in the last few days. Leaves are "crinkly" to the touch and break off easily. Bought a 200W cfl,6500k on 3/18 and raised to about 5" above. S.Lemon haze and bagseed do not appear to be affected but may simply be a few days behind. Is this possibly viral? Bacterial? Any input is appreciated but please, limit the wild speculation to a minimum. Been growing since the Carter administration so my bullshit meter has a hair trigger.

Your plants look good. Your problem with the lower leaves could be nute burn which usually doesn't show up right away. What kind of soil are you using?

Looks like you need to transplant

Not going to throw any wild theories up, or try to guess, but this is what I found when I did a search for "crinkly leaf problems"

Crinkle Leaf Disease

This disease is very common and is caused by Mycosphaerella spp.. Grey or brown blotches (lesions) occur on the leaves. These dry out and cause the leaf to crinkle thus giving the disease its common name - Crinkle Leaf Disease. The two main fungal species involved are M. cryptica and M. molleriana (syn M. nubilosa)
M. cryptica occurs on both adult and juvenile leaves but young expanding leaves seem to be the most susceptible. Initially the lesions are red-brown in colour (often with a purple margin) later becoming grey-brown. They may be round or irregular in shape and present on both sides of the leaves.
M. molleriana occurs only on juvenile leaves. The lesions occur on both sides of the leaves and are initially yellowish-brown later becoming grey-black underneath. They may be round or irregular in shape.
Crinkle leaf disease may infect trees in spring, summer or autumn whenever conditions are warm and moist. The first symptoms usually appear approximately 3 to 8 weeks after the initial infection.
This disease is very common and as it causes premature defoliation, it can have a serious effect on the growth of young trees, particularly if many leaves are lost.


Hopefully this helps a little, it says very common for trees, but cannabis and trees are both plants. If an animal can get the flu just like a human, then this is probably something any plant can face. Also the fact that is says young plants are most vulnerable and the time line matches your situation of symptoms. Also since you are an avid grower, I want to say this is something that has nothing to do with your side of the cultivating. Hope those plants make a recovery. Keep us updated if you would. Peace.

Thanks for the response Furrowx. The pathogen you suggested could indeed be responsible for this issue as it closely resembles the symptoms mentioned. But, it could also be pythium, rhizoctonia or a whole collection of diseases. I noticed this morning that it has also showed up on my S.Lemon Haze plants to a lesser extent so they may be a bit more resistant to the problem. I'm not ready to panic yet but think I will investigate a possible fungicide solution as these are not wimpy, leggy, little bagseed plants of unknown genetics. I paid relatively serious coinage to Attitude seeds and they are from their Green House Seeds feminized collection so it's not as though it's a casual, half-ass grow. I'm beginning to question the wisdom of using the Happy Frog potting soil. Although it contains several beneficial mycorrizhae and other bacteria it may also contain some not-so-beneficial-pathogen(s) that would be nearly impossible for the manufacturer to cull out. I looked at the label carefully to be certain that it contained no actual fertilizer analysis so nute burn would be a rookie, knee jerk observation in my opinion. It is also highly unlikely that any plant would grow rapidly enough to require repotting due to root mass restrictions no matter how vigorously they've grown in a little over 2 weeks. I've never used Hydrogen Peroxide before to purge out "bad bacteria" but I am leaning in that direction as well. I will keep posting pics if they show improvement or more serious decline.

Carl Spackler said:

Thanks for the response Furrowx. The pathogen you suggested could indeed be responsible for this issue as it closely resembles the symptoms mentioned. But, it could also be pythium, rhizoctonia or a whole collection of diseases. I noticed this morning that it has also showed up on my S.Lemon Haze plants to a lesser extent so they may be a bit more resistant to the problem. I'm not ready to panic yet but think I will investigate a possible fungicide solution as these are not wimpy, leggy, little bagseed plants of unknown genetics. I paid relatively serious coinage to Attitude seeds and they are from their Green House Seeds feminized collection so it's not as though it's a casual, half-ass grow. I'm beginning to question the wisdom of using the Happy Frog potting soil. Although it contains several beneficial mycorrizhae and other bacteria it may also contain some not-so-beneficial-pathogen(s) that would be nearly impossible for the manufacturer to cull out. I looked at the label carefully to be certain that it contained no actual fertilizer analysis so nute burn would be a rookie, knee jerk observation in my opinion. It is also highly unlikely that any plant would grow rapidly enough to require repotting due to root mass restrictions no matter how vigorously they've grown in a little over 2 weeks. I've never used Hydrogen Peroxide before to purge out "bad bacteria" but I am leaning in that direction as well. I will keep posting pics if they show improvement or more serious decline.

Click to expand...

I have never had an issue with bugs or pathogens in Happy Frog. But they have moved maunfacturing to S. Carolina, so who knows these days. "I paid relatively serious coinage" Was of the funniest tings I have read here in a longtime.

Anyone have any experience with Tobacco Mosaic or any of the other Mosaic viruses? I do smoke and try to be fairly clean with my room but I doubt it would meet NASA's pre-launch standards by any stretch of the imagination. In the research that I have done there appears to be more than a little debate as to whether or not Cannabis is even susceptible to TMV. If it does indeed have it I am prety much screwed and the plants will not make it. I bought some trusty Mancozeb to treat one of them with to see if it shows any level of improvement. If it does, then I suppose it is fungal in origin and I should treat the rest as a preventive but at this point I'm not very optimistic of how things will shake out.

Nicotine is poison to plants, most any plant. Even contact with seeds, both germed and ungermed and leaves with your fingers if you are a smoker can cause issues. Not saying this is the problem. Just sometning to be mindful of in the future. Even smoking weed in your growroom is a no no. EDIT to add the seed part

No problem on the reply. I was trying to post something that had facts and not give any wild assumptions. I am on my 2nd indoor grow, so i'm noobin it along. But I have found lots of invaluable info in these forums from what appears to be highly respected members. A lot of people who claim organic in their products are usually 50/50, unless we are there to see what exactly they do when they produce their organic products, it could very well be miracle grow in an organic labeled bag. The nicotine could complicate an already existing problem. I have used hydrogen peroxide to purge fungus gnats so far, but nothing else. I would do a quick maid service on my grow corner/area and hope for the best. Keep us updated as this might be a future problem for any other member and the more knowledge we assemble here as growers the more power we will have to seek out and destroy these problems fast if they do arise again. Best luck man, I hope that treatment you started with the one plant shows good recovery. Peace.

I never said I smoked in my grow room or anywhere near it. I guess I should have mentioned that yes I smoke the occasional cigarette but I am still not 100% convinced that this is the origin of the problem. Nicotine itself is unlikely to be the culprit as it is the active ingredient in many so called "organic" and synthetic inseciticides (Neonicotinoid class of insecticides.) To further complicate the issue, plant viruses typically only attack plant species that they have evolved to use as a host. Since Cannabis is not a member of the Nightshade family such as Tomatoes,Peppers and Eggplant, the verdict is still not in on whether or not it is susceptible to TMV. I realize this contradicts my original asessment, I am simply saying that it might be a problem but that arguement is potentially full of holes.

Did you notice also in the same post I stated "not saying this is the problem. Just something to be mindful of in the future." Have a nice grow.......

cowboylogic said:

Did you notice also in the same post I stated "not saying this is the problem. Just something to be mindful of in the future." Have a nice grow.......

Click to expand...

Just a quick update. Treated the "Cheese" with Mancozeb and dilute solution of fish emulsion as a test since it's decline was fairly rapid. I didn't see much point in keeping my fingers crossed in case it was viral. It has responded and shows new growth. Bottom tier of leaves had dropped earlier and now appears to healthy. Will treat the S.L. Haze similarly as a preventive. Crisis averted.