12/12 from seed 230w CFL grow

i wanna harvest within 2 months just a small grow i dont wanna run a HPS during winter due to the fact that i have my heater running lots of power running = too much money so im trying to feed my growing fix with a little CFL grow...

Questions!!!

how would i be looking if i did a 12/12 from seed what are my disadvantage's beside yield?? i plan on doing a 6-8 plant SOG..

would 250w of CFL's be pulling the same power as a 250w HPS>?

and comment or suggestion welcome wanna get some ideas down especially from the CFL growers who have done 12/12 from seed


strain will be unkown dank seeds i bought a bag last week supposedly Lemon Skunk not too sure..
Area is 4 x 3 1/2 closet im gonna make the space smaller by adding some white cardboard ill be growing in a 2x2 room

250 watts of CFLs will pull a little bit less power than a 250w HPS, however, you'll need 8+CFLs to make 250 watts total and they will more than likely make just as much or more heat than that HPS.

I'd go with the HPS since it is more efficient.

One thing I do know is that the 250cfl is in no way equivelent to the HPS. Cfls's are good (Ive used them before), but the light the hps gives off penetrates deeper than any CFL. I am currently growing 10 plants 12/12 from seed. the advantage is that I can fit more plants in more grow room. The disadvatage, as you stated, is less of a yield. To each his own.... Just remember that 12/12 from seed doesn't mean that it is going to finish faster. Your plants will naturally go through a 3-4 week vegging process even though the lights are 12/12. Another positive thing about 12/12 is that your plants will reveal their sex earlier than if you vegged them. All in all, 12/12 from seed is not a bad thing..Like I said "To each his own." Good luck

Lowkster said:

One thing I do know is that the 250cfl is in no way equivelent to the HPS. Cfls's are good (Ive used them before), but the light the hps gives off penetrates deeper than any CFL. I am currently growing 10 plants 12/12 from seed. the advantage is that I can fit more plants in more grow room. The disadvatage, as you stated, is less of a yield. To each his own.... Just remember that 12/12 from seed doesn't mean that it is going to finish faster. Your plants will naturally go through a 3-4 week vegging process even though the lights are 12/12. Another positive thing about 12/12 is that your plants will reveal their sex earlier than if you vegged them. All in all, 12/12 from seed is not a bad thing..Like I said "To each his own." Good luck

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thanks man.. i understand HPS and CFL light Penetration im just wondering if 250 watts of CFLs are pulling the same power/cost??... yea ive worked with that amount of CFL's the heat is very close to a HPS but ethier way ill have good airflow and temps

Wretched420 said:

thanks man.. i understand HPS and CFL light Penetration im just wondering if 250 watts of CFLs are pulling the same power/cost??... yea ive worked with that amount of CFL's the heat is very close to a HPS but ethier way ill have good airflow and temps

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I can tell you from my own experience, 326watts of CFLs makes LOTS of heat.

That's why I just ordered my 400w HPS today!!! I figure if I'm going to have 85+ temps, I might as well have 55,000 lumens instead of about 20,000.

right on im not worrying about the heat though ive used that same wattage to vegg before floweirng under a HPS i know whats to come with the heat just wondering if
250 watts of CFLs are pulling the same power/cost as a 250 HPS??...

Well, I'm not 100% sure about this, but let's look at conservation of energy.

The HPS is making more luminous intensity per watt than CFLs, so more energy is going towards producing light with the remainder of the energy being put off as heat from the ballast and radiant heat from the bulb. But CFLs, on the other hand don't make near as many lumens per watt so that energy has to go somewhere... heat.

Sorry dude...I misunderstood the question. Yes..you will save money if you go with 250cfl. I don't have any big scientific words to explain the reason why, but I know that you always save money with cfl's...lol know this from experience and a cheaper bill..lol

ok that is what i thought too im just making sure...

any updates? what happened? PICS?

250 watts of CFLs is exactly the same power bill as a 250 watt HPS...it's the same wattage.

The reason HPS may appear(to humans) to penetrate deeper into the canopy is the high amount/intensity of IR light and the high-transmission, lower-reflection, and lower-absorption of IR light. That is the IR light passes through plant leaf more than any other light(radiation) emitted by the bulb.

The light isn't used (much) by the plant, but it's there. We see it, plants basically 'ignore (most) it'.

With the proper plant-specific CFL bulbs a 200w CFL is producing more than a 400w HID in PUR(plant usable radiation).

EDIT: T5 bulb makers claim 2.8x more efficiency producing PUR than HID. So 54 watt 4' T5 is around a 151w HID.

iBong said:

any updates? what happened? PICS?

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wow i kinda forgot about this thread till now
i never ended up growing those seeds i got a new grow in mind .. starting very soon..

TeaTreeOil said:

The reason HPS may appear(to humans) to penetrate deeper into the canopy is the high amount/intensity of IR light and the high-transmission, lower-reflection, and lower-absorption of IR light. That is the IR light passes through plant leaf more than any other light(radiation) emitted by the bulb.

The light isn't used (much) by the plant, but it's there. We see it, plants basically 'ignore (most) it'.

With the proper plant-specific CFL bulbs a 200w CFL is producing more than a 400w HID in PUR(plant usable radiation).

EDIT: T5 bulb makers claim 2.8x more efficiency producing PUR than HID. So 54 watt 4' T5 is around a 151w HID.

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where do you get your information im just wondering???

nice, I too am 3/8 of the way thru a 12/12 grow. I am moving in April. I have a buffer if I need an extra week but then I will have too move fresh smelly new wet dope.

Wretched420 said:

where do you get your information im just wondering???

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From bulb manufacturers, independent testers, agriculture text books/web sites, and educational books/web sites.

I've grown with floros for a long time, CFLs have improved upon old designs. The narrowed tubes increase efficency greatly. And for example, a 23w CFL packs a 2.5' long 3/8" diameter tube into 3"x2.5" (cylindric) inches or so.

Here's a visual SPD/PAR bulb comparison I've been working on:



Since RIU converted my GIF into a JPG... I used Imageshack.

The b&w graphs are from the website on the bottom right(I believe they're actually using soy beans). The top-right over-lay colored chart is from McGraw Hill

Bottom-left is a chart I've found numerous places.. not sure on original source. The bottom-left overlays are also from various sources, typically the manufacturer/independent tester. They last 2 seconds each, and there are 7 comparisons:
Sun Agro 430W HPS
600w Sunmaster HPS (the chart maxed at 60%, if you're wondering)
GE Daylight CFL
'average' 2700k & 6500k CFLs
Hortilux BLUE 1000w MH (best HID SPD/PAR I've ever seen)
And finally a GE plant/aquarium CFL.

They're all graphed with respect to % of light output. Not actual raw intensity.

Using 230 watts of CFL's pulls exactly the same power as the HPS..... the EXACT same. Although HPS has a more efficient watt per lumen ratio.

1 watt = 1 Joule / 1 second

230 watt CFL = 230 Joules per second

230 watt HPS = 230 Joules per second.

Hope this helped.

still no pics?

I.AM.WEASEL said:

Using 230 watts of CFL's pulls exactly the same power as the HPS..... the EXACT same. Although HPS has a more efficient watt per lumen ratio.

1 watt = 1 Joule / 1 second

230 watt CFL = 230 Joules per second

230 watt HPS = 230 Joules per second.

Hope this helped.

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Lumens aren't meaningful alone. Your HPS ballast/ignitor is probably less efficient (especially magnetic ballasts vs electronic). They are definitely, without question, LESS efficient at producing lumens across the entire PAR spectrum(MH, like the Hortilux BLUE, are the best PAR-emitting HID I've ever seen). HID are also, without question, higher intensity(lumens again).

I've attached PAR with the human vision SPD. Plants only utilize about 20-30%(they'll absorb more, but do not use it) of light in the human-vision range.

If all you really cared about were lumens/watt go with low pressure sodium which is around 200 lm/W. All they basically produce is a very tight(nearly monochromatic) band of light in the 589.0 and 589.6 nm region(the 'dead-zone' of the PAR spectrum). HPS works because [the] high pressure broadens the spectrum beyond those points. Mostly towards the IR. If you saw a wider graph of the HPS spectrum, you'd be seeing IR spikes well beyond 760 nm(lots of unusable heat radiation). They still typically stink at the lower-end of the PAR spectrum(many people contend they cause plants to stretch during veg unless at very high wattage like 1000).

Surely LPS is better than the pressure broadened HPS! Best lm/wt EVAR!!!!