t0rn
Well-Known Member
Gonna grab the bottles, sec.I was looking it up. Couldn't find enough info on it.
What are the nutrient levels listed on the bottle. NPK Ca and Mg please
1000w Coco Multi-strain Medicinal Grow
- Thread starter t0rn
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t0rn
Well-Known Member
Ok, comes in a 2 part formula for all stages of growth, hence the Duo I guess. At heavy levels of veg you're at 3:1 (A:B), and at heavy levels of flower you're are 1:3 (A:B).
Listed nutrients are as follows.
FloraDuo A 5-0-6:
N- 5%
0.6% Ammoniacal Nitrogen
4.4% Nitrate Nitrogen
Soluable Potash (K2O)- 6%
Ca- 3.0%
Mg- 0.1%
Boron (B)- 0.018%
Copper (Cu)- 0.007%
Iron (Fe)- 0.05%
Manganese (Mn)- 0.03%
Molybdenum (Mo)- 0.0009%
Zinc (Zn)- 0.01
Derived from: Ammonium Nitrate, Boric Acid, Calcium Nitrate, Copper EDTA, Iron DPTA, Magnesium Nitrate, Manganese EDTA, Potassium Nitrate, Sodium Molybdate, Zinc EDTA.
Listed nutrients are as follows.
FloraDuo A 5-0-6:
N- 5%
0.6% Ammoniacal Nitrogen
4.4% Nitrate Nitrogen
Soluable Potash (K2O)- 6%
Ca- 3.0%
Mg- 0.1%
Boron (B)- 0.018%
Copper (Cu)- 0.007%
Iron (Fe)- 0.05%
Manganese (Mn)- 0.03%
Molybdenum (Mo)- 0.0009%
Zinc (Zn)- 0.01
Derived from: Ammonium Nitrate, Boric Acid, Calcium Nitrate, Copper EDTA, Iron DPTA, Magnesium Nitrate, Manganese EDTA, Potassium Nitrate, Sodium Molybdate, Zinc EDTA.
t0rn
Well-Known Member
FloraDuo B 1-5-4:
Nitrogen (N)- 1%
0.45% Ammonical Nitrogen
0.55% Nitrate Nitrogen
Phosphate (P2O5)- 5%
Soluble Potash (K2O)- 4%
Magnesium (Mg)- 1.5%
Sulfur (S)- 2.0%
Boron (B)- 0.01%
Copper (Cu)- 0.003%
Iron (Fe)- 0.01%
Manganese (Mn)- 0.01%
Molybdenum (Mo)- 0.0009%
Zinc (Zn)- 0.004%
Nitrogen (N)- 1%
0.45% Ammonical Nitrogen
0.55% Nitrate Nitrogen
Phosphate (P2O5)- 5%
Soluble Potash (K2O)- 4%
Magnesium (Mg)- 1.5%
Sulfur (S)- 2.0%
Boron (B)- 0.01%
Copper (Cu)- 0.003%
Iron (Fe)- 0.01%
Manganese (Mn)- 0.01%
Molybdenum (Mo)- 0.0009%
Zinc (Zn)- 0.004%
Snow Crash
Well-Known Member
You might wind up using 2x the amount of B to A given bloom periods... Who knows. I think it is a little lacking in the calcium department for coco but is probably great for other hydroponic methods.
I've been paying a lot of attention to different formulas and what they suggest and what not. The CNS 17 you have is really high in calcium while being relatively moderate in nitrogen during bloom, which is great for coco and is working very well for you. If you wanted to try your hand at DWC you could put together a bucket pretty easy.
BGhydro.com has these 6 bucket setups without a controller for like $60. You get six big buckets, six 2 gallon plants that hang inside and have a lot of drainage, and all the plumbing to drain them easily. For about $100 you could run a pretty simple drip system with up to 6 plants and have that all managed. Maybe in the future...
I've been paying a lot of attention to different formulas and what they suggest and what not. The CNS 17 you have is really high in calcium while being relatively moderate in nitrogen during bloom, which is great for coco and is working very well for you. If you wanted to try your hand at DWC you could put together a bucket pretty easy.
BGhydro.com has these 6 bucket setups without a controller for like $60. You get six big buckets, six 2 gallon plants that hang inside and have a lot of drainage, and all the plumbing to drain them easily. For about $100 you could run a pretty simple drip system with up to 6 plants and have that all managed. Maybe in the future...
t0rn
Well-Known Member
You use the 2 parts in different ratios throughout the grow. 3 parts A 1 Part B for vegging and the converse for late flowering. They also suggest going through the range (3:1, 2:2, 1:3) to get from veg to transition to late flowering. Honestly, I'm not sold on it for coco as you're right the cal/mag numbers are a tad low for coco. They do have the numbers in a proper ratio to each other though; 2:1 Ca/Mg.
I don't think I'll be going DWC any time soon man, coco has my heart for now. I have been throwing around the idea of using 2 ebb & grow bucket systems and controllers (6 each). One res for early blooming and one res for late blooming, that way I could keep my perpetual going. This would be in the future of course as I have more important things to buy next; 6" fan and ducting, pH meter, EC meter, timers, cloning equip etc..
Hand watering hasn't gotten insane yet as my plant numbers are pretty low.
t0rn
Well-Known Member
The pot seem flimsy and it's only a 1 gallon, so I might veg in it? I like the air pruning capabilities of it but not worth it in the cost of rigidity. There are a lot of new plastic pots now that have screen bottoms and perforations up the side for air pruning and will last more than 1 cycle unlike the root pots.
Marines break shit, plain and simple, get sturdy stuff.
t0rn
Well-Known Member
Thanks again for the spreadsheet crash, been plugging in the numbers from the FloraDuo to see how it works. I'm also comparing the numbers to Botanicare and seeing if I can work it in the lineup for a broader range of shit. Or I can use it alone on a plant at what they recommend. We'll see, crunching these numbers is fun.
I'm thinking next round is going to be 2 Poison with one on the Botanicare CNS17 base and the other on the new FloraDuo base to see which one comes out on top. Battle of the blooms!
I'm thinking next round is going to be 2 Poison with one on the Botanicare CNS17 base and the other on the new FloraDuo base to see which one comes out on top. Battle of the blooms!
Snow Crash
Well-Known Member
I keep tweeking my copy of the spreadsheet to get more accurate predictions for my own stuff. I've been keeping a record of how much higher or lower my nutrients test compared to my predictions and then compensating for that in the final calculations. My own nutrients are almost perfectly dialed with the sheet now, I can predict within 10ppm of the actual tested with the recent alterations.
What I'll be doing is running a 1.4 EC (~700ppm) for weeks 4 and 5 then dropping it to 1.1 EC (~550ppm) for weeks 6, 7, 8 before running just water through weeks 9 and 10. I'm able to get my nutrient levels somewhere between what you are running and what Canna suggests and it's all thanks to that spreadsheet. If I'd had this knowledge a year ago it would have saved me a lot of money on useless crap.
Good call on your purchasing plan. I think it is good to have a goal and then add a piece at a time to get there. Don't skimp. You'll get there eventually, I've spent close to $2500 on my hobby over the last 18 months and could have done a lot more with that money if I'd had the right plan from the beginning. I think you'll want to dabble in another hydro system some day but you do need to invest in a few other things before making that commitment.
What's your situation like? You're not planning on moving anytime soon are you? How big would you like to get some day (# of plants/systems, # of watts, #grams produced yearly)?
What I'll be doing is running a 1.4 EC (~700ppm) for weeks 4 and 5 then dropping it to 1.1 EC (~550ppm) for weeks 6, 7, 8 before running just water through weeks 9 and 10. I'm able to get my nutrient levels somewhere between what you are running and what Canna suggests and it's all thanks to that spreadsheet. If I'd had this knowledge a year ago it would have saved me a lot of money on useless crap.
Good call on your purchasing plan. I think it is good to have a goal and then add a piece at a time to get there. Don't skimp. You'll get there eventually, I've spent close to $2500 on my hobby over the last 18 months and could have done a lot more with that money if I'd had the right plan from the beginning. I think you'll want to dabble in another hydro system some day but you do need to invest in a few other things before making that commitment.
What's your situation like? You're not planning on moving anytime soon are you? How big would you like to get some day (# of plants/systems, # of watts, #grams produced yearly)?
t0rn
Well-Known Member
Don't really plan on moving anytime soon.
If I did upgrade I'd want an 8x8 tent, 4k watts (1k per 4x4) and fill the whole tent with 4x 4x4 trays in a perpetual much the same way I'm doing now on a smaller scale. If I moved I'd want a 2 bedroom place and weed could be my roommate, she'd pay her bills no problem.
If I did upgrade I'd want an 8x8 tent, 4k watts (1k per 4x4) and fill the whole tent with 4x 4x4 trays in a perpetual much the same way I'm doing now on a smaller scale. If I moved I'd want a 2 bedroom place and weed could be my roommate, she'd pay her bills no problem.
Snow Crash
Well-Known Member
LOL... Weed is my roommateDon't really plan on moving anytime soon.
If I did upgrade I'd want an 8x8 tent, 4k watts (1k per 4x4) and fill the whole tent with 4x 4x4 trays in a perpetual much the same way I'm doing now on a smaller scale. If I moved I'd want a 2 bedroom place and weed could be my roommate, she'd pay her bills no problem.
I pay less for a 2bd/2ba in Oregon than I did for a 600sqft studio in San Jose, CA... So she doesn't even have to pay rent, I'm saving money on it already! I also pay less than 1/2 the cost per kwh on my power bill, allowing me to run 1400w for almost the same price as 600w back in CA.I'm going for two 5x5 tents for flowering, both with 1000w HPS. In one I'll be running an organic mix, the other is going to be a vertical hydro system. I still have probably another year or so (depending on this harvest) before I do that. I need to upgrade my ventilation, install a water chiller and icebox for the ventilation, and I'd like to get into CO2. All together it's another $2,500 but should pay for itself soon enough.
I'm thinking Three 5x5 tents, One organic, one vert hydro, and one with a 400w MH and a 4 foot 8 bulb T5 for the cloning needs. I figure if I can get 1 gram per watt, 2000 grams, five times a year, then that investment will pay for itself mighty quick.
I keep kicking myself for wasting a 20K inheritance I got before I started growing. With just $5K I could do sooo much and have a 300% return on that investment in 6 months. Unfortunately life has its own expenses and it seems no matter what I save something always comes up. No matter how much I make it doesn't seem like enough. Car repairs, holidays, vet bills, bitches... Shit adds up. Thank god I could remove my weed bill, that's like a $600/mo habit I've had for 10 years... do the math on that one... Growing for myself offsets like $7500/year of what I would spend on bud.
But little by little... That's the right idea for sure.
t0rn
Well-Known Member
I like the organic room idea, I would go with a stadium style nft system in hydro room.
I've been contiplating getting myself out of cali for a while now. I'm going to save some capitol up and wait for a new state to pass MMJ laws and be quick to setup shop. That's the dream for me. Getting away from it all and starting my own thing up. Lease a business area, grow in the back, dispensary area in the middle and reception up front.
Pipe dreams, but I'll make it happen.
I've been contiplating getting myself out of cali for a while now. I'm going to save some capitol up and wait for a new state to pass MMJ laws and be quick to setup shop. That's the dream for me. Getting away from it all and starting my own thing up. Lease a business area, grow in the back, dispensary area in the middle and reception up front.
Pipe dreams, but I'll make it happen.
Kiki007
Well-Known Member
hey SNOW - I'm in the 209 with 4 1000s.... so you know what my power bill is!! F**king California... anyway - i just wanted to tell you that Lighthouse hydro makes a 6x6 tent, and with 1000s.... it's perfect - 5x5 is good too - but they say a 1000 can cover a 6x6..... and the price is not bad... if you want the link PM me and I'll send it to you.LOL... Weed is my roommate
I'm going for two 5x5 tents for flowering, both with 1000w HPS. In one I'll be running an organic mix, the other is going to be a vertical hydro system. I still have probably another year or so (depending on this harvest) before I do that. I need to upgrade my ventilation, install a water chiller and icebox for the ventilation, and I'd like to get into CO2. All together it's another $2,500 but should pay for itself soon enough.
I'm thinking Three 5x5 tents, One organic, one vert hydro, and one with a 400w MH and a 4 foot 8 bulb T5 for the cloning needs. I figure if I can get 1 gram per watt, 2000 grams, five times a year, then that investment will pay for itself mighty quick.
I keep kicking myself for wasting a 20K inheritance I got before I started growing. With just $5K I could do sooo much and have a 300% return on that investment in 6 months. Unfortunately life has its own expenses and it seems no matter what I save something always comes up. No matter how much I make it doesn't seem like enough. Car repairs, holidays, vet bills, bitches... Shit adds up. Thank god I could remove my weed bill, that's like a $600/mo habit I've had for 10 years... do the math on that one... Growing for myself offsets like $7500/year of what I would spend on bud.
But little by little... That's the right idea for sure.
Happy growing darling.
t0rn
Well-Known Member
It really depends on the hood and the foot-print it can create. An old Yieldmaster II at 6" x 18" would need to be placed at the top of the tent (too far from the plants) to get a footprint onto all of the plants in a 6x6. Large batwing style and the new Magnum XXXL reflectors would do the trick. You're running into watt:sq ft. / lumen:sq ft problems in a 6x6 tent with just 1k watts.
1k watts in a 6x6 (36 sq ft) = 27.777 watts per sq ft.
150k lumens in a 6x6 (36 sq ft) = 4166.666 lumens per sq ft.
1k watts in a 5x5 (25 sq ft) = 40 watts per sq ft.
150k lumens in a 5x5 (25 sq ft) = 6000 lumens per sq ft.
1k watts in a 4x4 (16 sq ft) = 62.5
150k lumens in a 4x4 (16 sq ft) = 9375 lumens per sq ft.
In a 6x6 tent I would run a 600w per 3x3 space. So 4x 600w lights is:
600w in a 3x3 (9 sq ft) = 66.666 watts per sq ft.
90k lumens in a 3x3 (9 sq ft) = 10k lumens per sq ft.
Kiki007
Well-Known Member
t0rn - you're right - and if you look in my pics you'll see that I have the Magnum xxxl's.... I guess I just assumed that everyone else did too.... oops. My hoods are a crazy 36 x 30.... so they're really too much for my 4x4..... but then I have 2 more in a 4x8..... so there's some overlap. Anyway - happy growing gents - just my opinion.
Snow Crash
Well-Known Member
Rule of squares comes into play. You want to keep your lumen level over 5,000 for ideal growth.
145,000 lumens measured at 6.8" is only 36,250 lumens at 13.6".
Figure a 6x6 space is going to be at least 38" from the bulb to the edge of the canopy. At that distance you dip under 5,000 lumens to 4,645 lumens and less than 1/30th of the advertised energy. A 5x5 footprint will keep the bulb closer to the canopy edge and the whole thing will get enough light for healthy photosynthesis.
When you slam a few lights together the over lap does allow for more even lighting.
145,000 lumens measured at 6.8" is only 36,250 lumens at 13.6".
Figure a 6x6 space is going to be at least 38" from the bulb to the edge of the canopy. At that distance you dip under 5,000 lumens to 4,645 lumens and less than 1/30th of the advertised energy. A 5x5 footprint will keep the bulb closer to the canopy edge and the whole thing will get enough light for healthy photosynthesis.
When you slam a few lights together the over lap does allow for more even lighting.
t0rn
Well-Known Member
Ok, I didn't add distance from the bulb into the equation as I wrote that out because I thought we all knew that. To get a good amount of light (people say minimum 5k lumens) from a 1k you need to be at least 28 inches from the light at the top of the canopy.
I run at 18 inches from the top of my plants and if placed in the middle of a 6x6 area the light wouldn't cover it efficiently. In a bigger tent more points of light is optimal. You could get 4 600s down to within 12 inches in a 3x3 area at a whopping 30k lumens and have great coverage and overlapping space, not to mention decent penetration.
Light distance chart visual aid:
MH-Light Distance ChartI run at 18 inches from the top of my plants and if placed in the middle of a 6x6 area the light wouldn't cover it efficiently. In a bigger tent more points of light is optimal. You could get 4 600s down to within 12 inches in a 3x3 area at a whopping 30k lumens and have great coverage and overlapping space, not to mention decent penetration.
Light distance chart visual aid:
HPS- Light Distance Chart
t0rn
Well-Known Member
Doing it the other way is a quick means of determining how much light you have in a certain area.
There are much better means such as determining the lumen output at what distance from the bulb and spacing you garden from there. A light meter would be cool, it's in the wish list now. Although once you do it once in your room it's pretty much worthless as you would have it all figured out. Might be cool to see how long it takes for bulbs to be replaced?
There are much better means such as determining the lumen output at what distance from the bulb and spacing you garden from there. A light meter would be cool, it's in the wish list now. Although once you do it once in your room it's pretty much worthless as you would have it all figured out. Might be cool to see how long it takes for bulbs to be replaced?