1000 watts = 2 lbs

chronicals77

chronicals77

Well-Known Member
a mongo frog said:
But what if we are happy with our medicine? Then why outside when the days get shorter do the buds start to come?
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Outdoors is completely different, its gradual. Outside your not flipping a switch from 18hr days to 12hr days. Also most switch bulbs from MH or CFL to HPS or LED. Or from one spectrum to another. Same as seeding a plant, if your plants get pollinated the potency will be drastically reduced and the growth rate will be reduced some also because seed development takes a lot of energy. A plant cannot stretch drastically and focus on buds also. One or the other. Once it adjusts to the light it begins stretching, once done stretching it focus' on flower production. UNLESS the plant is pollinated, in that case the energy is split between flower and seed production. Long story short, flip, transition, then flower.
 
chronicals77

chronicals77

Well-Known Member
bdt1981 said:
Does always seem like they could stand to go another week or so come 60 day mark.
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Exactly correct, this is why most people have to give thier plants another week or two longer. Just time them correctly and you'll find thier usually right on schedule.
 
a mongo frog

a mongo frog

Well-Known Member
chronicals77 said:
Exactly correct, this is why most people have to give thier plants another week or two longer. Just time them correctly and you'll find thier usually right on schedule.
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Are you sure your doing it right? Don't want to argue at all but ill bet world wide there are more people counting flip as soon as lights are set as 12/12. Maybe i am doing it wrong, can you bring any data to the table that shows your correct?
 
Odin*

Odin*

Well-Known Member
@chronicals77 It differs by plant health and environment, but plants begin to flower on day one of flip. Yellowing around bud sites occurs on day one. The plant is drawing nutrients from around the bud sites to initiate flower growth. 5-7 days in you should have flowers already developed. Anyone not counting the first day of flip in flower is doing it wrong.


If I don't count that first week, then my OG's, GSC's, GG4, "Mystery", Animal Crosses, and every other strain I've ever grown (except something called "Unicorn Crusher" and a Jack cross that each looked could go another week or two) are all "7-8 week" plants (again, that is minus the first week), and I had a Blue Dream that was just over 6 weeks (if that first week doesn't "count"). Nope, that isn't the case. I run 8-9 week plants. Flowering begins day 1, by day 7 there are flowers. Flowering does not "initiate" when there is already a flower present.

I think the "argument" stems from the difference in environment and overall plant health. Ideal environment and optimal plant health will shorten bloom. Extreme example; a plant that will take 56 days, flip to finish (let's say 80/20 milky/amber), while that exact same plant ("sister" clone) will take significantly longer outdoors. Yes, this is the difference between "out" and "in", but there is also a difference in the "sophistication" between individual indoor grows. One may take only 8-9 weeks with a particular strain, while another takes 11-12 to achieve the same level of maturation.

"Stretch" is a part of the flowering phase. The amount of stretch and it's duration is strain/environment dependent. Typically occurs during the first 3 weeks. There are methods to mitigate this.
 
chronicals77

chronicals77

Well-Known Member
Its out there, anyone can find it and learn just as I did. The quickest thing I can show you is this DWC feed chart. It shows what I am talking about right on it. Just because the majority of the people you know count flower from flip doesn't mean its correct. This chart isn't necessarily proof but the info is out there to support it. You cant always give someone a link to some supporting info somewhere. I have learned over years of growing.
 
chronicals77

chronicals77

Well-Known Member
Odin* said:
@chronicals77 It differs by plant health and environment, but plants begin to flower on day one of flip. Yellowing around bud sites occurs on day one. The plant is drawing nutrients from around the bud sites to initiate flower growth. 5-7 days in you should have flowers already developed. Anyone not counting the first day of flip in flower is doing it wrong.


If I don't count that first week, then my OG's, GSC's, GG4, "Mystery", Animal Crosses, and every other strain I've ever grown (except something called "Unicorn Crusher" and a Jack cross that each looked could go another week or two) are all "7-8 week" plants (again, that is minus the first week), and I had a Blue Dream that was just over 6 weeks (if that first week doesn't "count"). Nope, that isn't the case. I run 8-9 week plants. Flowering begins day 1, by day 7 there are flowers. Flowering does not "initiate" when there is already a flower present.

I think the "argument" stems from the difference in environment and overall plant health. Ideal environment and optimal plant health will shorten bloom. Extreme example; a plant that will take 56 days, flip to finish (let's say 80/20 milky/amber), while that exact same plant ("sister" clone) will take significantly longer outdoors. Yes, this is the difference between "out" and "in", but there is also a difference in the "sophistication" between individual indoor grows. One may take only 8-9 weeks with a particular strain, while another takes 11-12 to achieve the same level of maturation.

"Stretch" is a part of the flowering phase. The amount of stretch and it's duration is strain/environment dependent. Typically occurs during the first 3 weeks. There are methods to mitigate this.
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There is a week of transition indoors no matter how you type it. Taking a plant from 18hrs straight to 12hrs causes stress. That flip initiates flower cycle yes but just like you said significant flowers begin developing around 7 days. Hense the prior week of transition.
 
K

KryptoBud

Well-Known Member
chronicals77 said:
Exactly correct, this is why most people have to give thier plants another week or two longer. Just time them correctly and you'll find thier usually right on schedule.
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That's funny. "Just time them correctly and you'll find thier usually right on schedule.[/QUOTE]"
 
chronicals77

chronicals77

Well-Known Member
Look, whats the first week after flip? Transition. Please do not tell me GH professionals dont know what they are talking about. GH is backed by N.A.S.A. Botonists. Read! The info is out there. Anyone counting day one flip as day one flower is technically wrong.
 

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Odin*

Odin*

Well-Known Member
It isn't a week of transition, it's a week of early flower development. I often have flowers 5 days in. It's absurd to suggest it was "transitioning" prior to that and that it "just started" flowering when there is already a flower developed. It's either "flowering", or not. Ignoring the first days of flip implies that flower development is "spontaneous". Flower development initiates when the light cycle changes. It takes 5-7 days to develop flowers. Fact. It does not take 5-7 of "transition", then initiating the development of flowers, which appear in an additional 5-7 days. If this is what happens in your garden, you are doing it wrong.
 
Odin*

Odin*

Well-Known Member
Here is how it happens, a little more articulate than what I've already said;

"The pathway begins with photoreceptors (such as PHYA and CRY2), which initiate signals that interact with a circadian clock and entrain the circadian rhythm. Somehow, day length is measured, and when the length of the dark period decreases below a critical length, genes that promote flowering (such as CO) are activated. This activation leads, in turn, to the upregulation of floral meristem identity genes and, thereafter, flowering."

Link- http://m.plantcell.org/content/10/12/1973.full


Flowering begins when the flower starts using energy to produce flowers, which is light dependent. So, Day 1.


@KryptoBud I bet they've been at it for years. It would explain how the guys at N.A.S.A. come up with some cool shit. :bigjoint:
 
chronicals77

chronicals77

Well-Known Member
Odin* said:
It isn't a week of transition, it's a week of early flower development. I often have flowers 5 days in. It's absurd to suggest it was "transitioning" prior to that and that it "just started" flowering when there is already a flower developed. It's either "flowering", or not. Ignoring the first days of flip implies that flower development is "spontaneous". Flower development initiates when the light cycle changes. It takes 5-7 days to develop flowers. Fact. It does not take 5-7 of "transition", then initiating the development of flowers, which appear in an additional 5-7 days. If this is what happens in your garden, you are doing it wrong.
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You have pistils showing by day 4-5 but you dont have full swing flower production until about days 7-8. Thats not early flower, read the chart. Its transition then early flower begins. If what you were saying were true I wouldn't be flushing right now at week 8 flower. According to you id be week 9 but if that were true my plant would need another week of feeding then a week of flush which it doesn't. I have amber trichs and 85% pistils are orange and retracted. I could harvest now but I flush for a week and allow it the full 8th week. I follow that chart to the letter and its right on the money. Everyone is welcome to do what ever they like but I do what works perfectly for me, in my climate, with my set up.
 
chronicals77

chronicals77

Well-Known Member
Nevermind, you completely aren't grasping what im saying. Trust me, im correct. Im not saying flip doesn't initialize the flowering cycle, thats not what im saying at all. Durring transition MOST of the plants energy is spent on stretching, this cannot be considered week one of flower. The plants still stretch some over the next two weeks but again MOST of the energy is then focused on flower production. I have pistils show on day 4, but buds dont start growing fast until days 7-8. Thats a fact.
 
Odin*

Odin*

Well-Known Member
So, you're arguing against the "science" I just posted, which implies that you believe "flowering does not start when the plant initiates flower development". That is more than wrong.

If your plant is putting most of it's energy into stretch, you're doing it wrong. Even then, any energy into flowers is "flowering" (Read the link again, everything, top to bottom).


Not "pistils", little green buds with pistils coming out of them. About the size of a pea.
 
cat of curiosity

cat of curiosity

Well-Known Member
Odin* said:
Here is how it happens, a little more articulate than what I've already said;

"The pathway begins with photoreceptors (such as PHYA and CRY2), which initiate signals that interact with a circadian clock and entrain the circadian rhythm. Somehow, day length is measured, and when the length of the dark period decreases below a critical length, genes that promote flowering (such as CO) are activated. This activation leads, in turn, to the upregulation of floral meristem identity genes and, thereafter, flowering."

Link- http://m.plantcell.org/content/10/12/1973.full


Flowering begins when the flower starts using energy to produce flowers, which is light dependent. So, Day 1.


@KryptoBud I bet they've been at it for years. It would explain how the guys at N.A.S.A. come up with some cool shit. :bigjoint:
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one of my college professors retired from nasa. some of the experiments included growing plants in less than ideal conditions (extra terrestrial). most of these were edible.

his pot was excellent,if not quite as good as mine. his last name was looney, and it fit perfectly...
 
chronicals77

chronicals77

Well-Known Member
Im not doing anything wrong, your just not understanding and are convinced flower starts the day you flip the switch. It does NOT, the plant has to adjust to the drastic change in light and also has to change chemically before it can just begin shitting out buds. You dont miraculously have buds the next day after you switch to 12/12. The plant changes chemically. It has to transition from veg to flower, there is a short period of time between these stages where this happens. The plant is not in veg then the next day in flower just because you flipped a switch, get real. Cannabis transitions from veg to flower period!
 
cat of curiosity

cat of curiosity

Well-Known Member
chronicals77 said:
Nevermind, you completely aren't grasping what im saying. Trust me, im correct. Im not saying flip doesn't initialize the flowering cycle, thats not what im saying at all. Durring transition MOST of the plants energy is spent on stretching, this cannot be considered week one of flower. The plants still stretch some over the next two weeks but again MOST of the energy is then focused on flower production. I have pistils show on day 4, but buds dont start growing fast until days 7-8. Thats a fact.
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the fact is, if your plants are mature, then going from 24 hours of light to 12 will trigger immediate response.

therefore, day one is day one.

i personally don't have a problem waiting 12+weeks. but some people are impatient...
 
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