10,000 Watt 10 Plant 13 Gallon Rdwc [3d Model Incl. Inside Thread]
- Thread starter CCCmints
- Start date
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
Check my signature line. There's a whole thread full. In the vertical section are a few more of my vertical threads as well.
Stltoed
Well-Known Member
Nice. I like the out of the box thinking. I chose RDWC partially because theres so much to it. This last grow kinda wound up in the weeds due to Nitrogen toxicity. But i learned something... i like that.
I think its very impressive when i read about people that build their own lights. I would have done that if i knew a little more about how successful these people are. I bouggt my lights just a few months ago, and they will be around awhile
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
I had my water cooled COB LED lights custom made. They're fun to play with lol
Nugteq
Active Member
So Ive been growin with hps se and hps de for a while with good enough results
There is a limiting factor there with sq ft coverage which also coincides with watt efficiency and we all know that there is a ceiling to amount of kWs one can run..
So ive always been shocked at electricity bills but the cost has been a drop in hat for a good run.
If LED Cobs the ones listed in this thread the diy builds are as effective and more efficient if not way less economical can you compile a list of references and links to research for an enthused grower on cusp of new build..
I just got the title to my new house today and am planning a 15x20 flower garage build posted a thread today.
Now OP has anyone posed the question to you of the costs upfront on LED vs CMH or HPS DE?
Ill share..
The cost of sourcing from China manufacturer 12 x 630W CMH complete with hood n ballast plus 2 crates of 12 630W Double Ended (DE) CMH bulbs plus 24 hangers and 6 fans is only $2420 plus $700 shipping
$3120. Ive ordered from China a few times...guess who manufacturers nanolux and many more "American made" grow products.
Convince me kindly if I should go LED for my new build please.
Cost is always a factor upfront...
As a grower with experience will also know that the cost of electricity is only relevant to the weight of return. I dont mind paying more electricity down road as my crops keep me fed and its my understanding that keeping initial upfront costs low in order to get your "investment" back is the actual economy of successful long term growing.
There is a limiting factor there with sq ft coverage which also coincides with watt efficiency and we all know that there is a ceiling to amount of kWs one can run..
So ive always been shocked at electricity bills but the cost has been a drop in hat for a good run.
If LED Cobs the ones listed in this thread the diy builds are as effective and more efficient if not way less economical can you compile a list of references and links to research for an enthused grower on cusp of new build..
I just got the title to my new house today and am planning a 15x20 flower garage build posted a thread today.
Now OP has anyone posed the question to you of the costs upfront on LED vs CMH or HPS DE?
Ill share..
The cost of sourcing from China manufacturer 12 x 630W CMH complete with hood n ballast plus 2 crates of 12 630W Double Ended (DE) CMH bulbs plus 24 hangers and 6 fans is only $2420 plus $700 shipping
$3120. Ive ordered from China a few times...guess who manufacturers nanolux and many more "American made" grow products.
Convince me kindly if I should go LED for my new build please.
Cost is always a factor upfront...
As a grower with experience will also know that the cost of electricity is only relevant to the weight of return. I dont mind paying more electricity down road as my crops keep me fed and its my understanding that keeping initial upfront costs low in order to get your "investment" back is the actual economy of successful long term growing.
CCCmints
Well-Known Member
The research and data has been posted in this thread. From page 1-10 you see my journey from knowing nothing about LED, to where I'm at now. My goal was to match a 1000w HPS DE light with a COB LED
fixture. The best build turned out to be 9x Vero 29 SE 3000k COBs running at 81.27 watts each making the total wattage of the fixture 731.43 watts. At this current, the COBs are running at 46.7552% efficiency producing 183.002 umol/s per diode (PPF). I'd recommend 3'x3' fixtures for this design. So with your space being 15'x20', you'd need to factor in walking space, space taken up by equipment (de-humidifiers, mini splits, etc.). Once you've determined the square footage of the space your plants will take up, you can then determine the square footage of light coverage you need for your specific setup.
This fixture would cost roughly $740.60. Mind you, this is with the ability to diim your lights. The cost would be reduced if you don't want to dim your lights.@nxsov180db Could you go into more detail about your fixture please? Which COBs are you running and at what current? Which heat sinks are you using? Are you using lenses/reflectors? If so, which ones? $500 sounds really, really cheap...
Edit:
Wait, 16 COBs matching a 1k watt HPS for $500?? I'd love to hear more.
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ttystikk
Well-Known Member
Total cost for the 50 ft² space?
BabyLobsterito
Active Member
I haven't been on here in a few days... I've missed quite a bit! This thread is going in a great direction. I have a Vero29 3500K 80CRI driven by a Meanwell LPC-100-1750, not sure exactly what wattage it's pulling (Someone else's design that was left to me) but I don't think I'll ever go back to HPS/MH. It worked well for both veg and flower, but now i'm considering buying a Vero29 6200K or 6400K to experiment with Veg/Mothers/Clone trays in my room as well. I've been thinking of the potential of warehouse scale grows being achieved with COBs or LED in general, especially with the fraction of the power costs.... I've also thought about the possibilities of someone making a COB surface that can be bent or molded into a dome/semicircle big enough to house one or a few plants, so it's essentially a micro-sky... Using the same technology in RGB computer hardware/peripherals, you could control which sections of the COB dome are on, which are brighter/dimmer, and their position throughout the day, to emulate the sunrise and sunset of various seasons, climates, or geographic location.
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
Neat ideas. Sounds a bit like a planetarium for plants.
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
Warehouse scale grows are coming.
Currently the fraction of energy vs HID is about 60%, so not quite as big a savings as folks might hope for- but I'm working in a slightly different direction; the 'waste' heat part.
The reason I think focusing on the heat aspect is important is because of its effects on conditions in the growing space; heat is required to manage RH, temperature and therefore transpiration.
Heat is also required at night to manage RH and temperature, otherwise as temps fall RH spikes and invites disease.
If one of the major reasons for adopting LED lighting is to take advantage of its superior energy efficiency, then it only makes sense to do the same with the heat emitted. After all, all the watts get converted to heat one way or another and there will always be a substantial fraction of watts that go directly to heat.
What happens if we manage this heat as carefully as we manage the light emitted from the chips? I think big dividends in terms of performance and efficiency can be achieved through the efficient utilization of this resource, something that isn't being done very well in indoor spaces as they're currently designed and operated.
Boosting efficiency leads to lower cost of operation, leading to the ability to grow more crops of lesser value on a larger scale indoors.
Suddenly, this isn't just about growing Cannabis anymore.
Currently the fraction of energy vs HID is about 60%, so not quite as big a savings as folks might hope for- but I'm working in a slightly different direction; the 'waste' heat part.
The reason I think focusing on the heat aspect is important is because of its effects on conditions in the growing space; heat is required to manage RH, temperature and therefore transpiration.
Heat is also required at night to manage RH and temperature, otherwise as temps fall RH spikes and invites disease.
If one of the major reasons for adopting LED lighting is to take advantage of its superior energy efficiency, then it only makes sense to do the same with the heat emitted. After all, all the watts get converted to heat one way or another and there will always be a substantial fraction of watts that go directly to heat.
What happens if we manage this heat as carefully as we manage the light emitted from the chips? I think big dividends in terms of performance and efficiency can be achieved through the efficient utilization of this resource, something that isn't being done very well in indoor spaces as they're currently designed and operated.
Boosting efficiency leads to lower cost of operation, leading to the ability to grow more crops of lesser value on a larger scale indoors.
Suddenly, this isn't just about growing Cannabis anymore.
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CCCmints
Well-Known Member
This is exactly the type of thing I've been thinking about. I've been told it wouldn't be space efficient/energy efficient, but I disagree and don't think that call can be made yet. Right now, it seems we are slamming certain parts of our plants with mass amounts of light to achieve the desired affect. If every angle of the plant including the top had an evenly distributed amount of light, then the total amount of light the plant receives could be the same yet the production of that plant could be increased almost supersonically. Theoretically, this is the best way to grow plants. Its just time to build some panels and a system to hold them then see where this takes us.
Interesting. Very, very close to my fixture in terms of wattage and PPFD (you're a bit higher in both), but way cheaper. It looks like you're saving most of the money on your heat sinks. At bulk pricing, the heat sinks I chose were $16/pc but are considered to be the best on the market right now. I may have been falling into the hype.
I'm wondering what efficiency you're running those Citizens at. Could you provide a bit more information? Forward voltage? Drive current? Which specific model Citizen COB are you using? I'd like to digitize the spectral distribution and run it through the calculator to determine a few figures.
And this is what I'm most excited about.
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BabyLobsterito
Active Member
I agree, nobody can really say until it's done and documented extensively several times.
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
There's a well known limit to how much light the plants can take;
As far as lighting the plants from all sides, this enforces a gumdrop shaped plant. This plus the space between them required for lighting and access would make them a less efficient use of available floorspace.
I agree that testing is needed to validate which theories best fit the facts.
BabyLobsterito
Active Member
Yeah I totally agree with the floor space aspect, the design I though of is only really beneficial to one plant per dome, which is totally cost inefficient... Maybe if I were to line every wall with quantum boards, and then use (x)COBs for the overhead lighting? It would be a large initial investment, but it would be interesting to see the results.
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
I already line the walls with LED lighting, including making more walls. This is an approach that works from a space efficiency, access and worker productivity standpoint.
BabyLobsterito
Active Member
Your approach produces some great results too. I think i'm looking at it from a viewpoint of playing with various models/styles/makers/spectrum etc and I'm just too high to properly dictate it lol.
I should note that I've only harvested one small test plant with 1 COB to date.
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
I'm all for playing with different designs. Done intelligently, this process will not only help nail down WHAT the best configurations are, but WHY- which to me is even more valuable. Such guiding principles can then be applied to every application going forward.
BabyLobsterito
Active Member
Just one more step ahead, exactly. I don't just want to produce, I want to further understand the specimen.
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
There's the specimen, and then there is optimising the system of indoor culturing.
I'm even more interested in the latter than I am in the former, and that's saying something!
BabyLobsterito
Active Member
Yeah I've been looking into TC and the equipment I could use in a home(sanctioned/dedicated room). So far there's only one person I follow on a different platform who is undergoing TC and has the equipment and is documenting it, and who I can message and receive a response from. So far it's going well for him, and I'm familiar with a few of the components/equipment involved with it.