A Pro Palin Thread

coach

Well-Known Member
Increased revenues.You give tax incentives so that companies can invest in their future.Cut government and wasteful spending.You certainly dont steal from the most productive.Over taxation was part of why America came to be.Did you get a rebate?That was your money.Did you keep it?I would hope you gave it back.Since you believe in higher taxws.One really good reason that companies are leaving is because of our fucked up tax code.I would encourage you all to look to Ireland and what they have done to attract companies.
 

ViRedd

New Member
Exactly right, coach. Here's the funny part ... all of these liberals who rail against our jobs going overseas, are the very same ones who want to punish corporations even further by raising taxes. We already have the second highest corporate tax rate on the planet ... second only to Japan. What we really need, is to give corporations a HUGE tax break and other incentives so they will bring jobs back into this country. I think McCain and Palin are on board for this.

Vi
 

Bongulator

Well-Known Member
"The Government Accountability Office (GAO) examined samples of corporate tax returns filed between 1998 and 2005. In that time period, an annual average of 1.3 million U.S. companies and 39,000 foreign companies doing business in the United States paid no income taxes - despite having a combined $2.5 trillion in revenue.

The study showed that 28% of foreign companies and 25% of U.S. corporations with more than $250 million in assets or $50 million in sales paid no federal income taxes in 2005. Those companies totaled a combined $372 billion in sales for the largest foreign companies and $1.1 trillion in revenue for the biggest U.S. companies."

As you can see, regardless of what the rate is, most corporations pay no taxes at all. I wish I could pay no taxes at all, yet still have tons of people saying that my rates are too high. That's from CNNmoney, but the data is available everywhere. Corporations have a great many loopholes that they can exploit. I had my own small corporation in the 90s, and I never paid a dime in corporate taxes. It's trivially easy to avoid paying taxes as a corporation. I wouldn't worry too much about the corporations. They could make the corporate tax rate 100%, and still, the bulk of corporations would never pay a dime. Likewise, giving them a big tax break won't lower their net tax burden below the current $0 that most pay. Unless you're suggesting we PAY them with taxpayer money.

Incidentally, Palin isn't against massive corporate taxes. She's got four different taxes going on the oil companies. That's why Alaska's gas prices are so high. (But then all that money gets redistributed to the Alaskan population each year in big checks, which more than make up for the extra gas cost, at least for people who aren't driving 1000 miles a day across the tundra.) The tax rate on Alaskan oil companies is a mind-boggling 75% on the profit of each barrel of oil. If you think the oil companies are greedy, well, they only get 25% of the profits in Alaska, and Governor Palin takes 75%. Because of that, she's probably responsible for at least a goodly chunk of the price we pay for gas in this country.

I think the best way to address corporate taxes is to do two things. First, go ahead and lower the rate. What is it now, 15%? Lower it to 5% or 10%. Secondly, apply the tax to the *gross* profit, not the net. This would simplify things enormously, and at the same time this would eliminate all loopholes. If this had been the case in the 90s, I would most definitely have paid some taxes. I felt a little guilty about how easy it was to pay none, but it was legal, and my attorney advised me to exploit all the loopholes I could, so I did. This minor change would benefit the very largest most profit-centric companies more than medium or small businesses, but I still think that it'd be more fair. But I bet if you offered the average small or medium business the choice between a 25% tax rate with all of today's loopholes, or 5% with none, they'd take the 25% and the loopholes. And why not, when they'd pay no taxes at all with the 25% rate, just as they pay none now.

I hear people say that our corporate tax rate is among the highest in the world. Yeah, it is...before you factor in the loopholes that reduce the tax burden for 70% of all corporations that do business in our country, foreign and domestic, to nothing. If you take all the corporate taxes actually *paid* by every corporation doing business in our country, add that all together, and divide by the combined revenue of those companies, I suspect we would compare very favorably indeed with any other country on this planet. In other words, while our base corporate rate may *appear* high, the number that matters is how much in taxes is actually paid per dollar of revenue, and that is a much, MUCH lower amount. You have to compare apples and apples.
 

ccodiane

New Member
The Tax Foundation - More Recent Tax Foundation News: Page 1

American Families Bear Large Burden from Corporate Income Tax



Following newly released OECD data that shows U.S. corporate income taxes are 50 percent higher than the OECD average, the Tax Foundation released a revised summary showing that the US federal corporate income tax quietly taps family pocketbooks for nearly $370 billion per year in the form of higher prices, lower wages and poorer return on investment.


The typical family focuses on the more visible taxes such as property taxes on homes, sales taxes on purchases, and personal income and payroll taxes. But in Tax Foundation Tax Watch, "What Do Corporate Income Taxes Cost American Families," Tax Foundation President Scott Hodge puts a price tag on the corporate income tax.


"Most people think corporate income taxes are paid by wealthy, anonymous companies," said Hodge. "But as economists have been teaching for years, ultimately people bear the burden of corporate taxes, not companies. And in 2006 that burden averaged $3,190 per household. That's more than the average household spends on restaurant food, gasoline or home electricity in a year."


Last week, the Tax Foundation launched the CompeteUSA campaign whose goal is to raise the public's awareness of the burden America's business taxes may place on workers through lower real wages and living standards than would have occurred otherwise.



http://www.taxfoundation.org/files/corporate_income_taxes_cost_families-20080818.pdf

Full report..........
 

ccodiane

New Member
"The Government Accountability Office (GAO) examined samples of corporate tax returns filed between 1998 and 2005. In that time period, an annual average of 1.3 million U.S. companies and 39,000 foreign companies doing business in the United States paid no income taxes - despite having a combined $2.5 trillion in revenue.

The study showed that 28% of foreign companies and 25% of U.S. corporations with more than $250 million in assets or $50 million in sales paid no federal income taxes in 2005. Those companies totaled a combined $372 billion in sales for the largest foreign companies and $1.1 trillion in revenue for the biggest U.S. companies."

As you can see, regardless of what the rate is, most corporations pay no taxes at all. I wish I could pay no taxes at all, yet still have tons of people saying that my rates are too high. That's from CNNmoney, but the data is available everywhere. Corporations have a great many loopholes that they can exploit. I had my own small corporation in the 90s, and I never paid a dime in corporate taxes. It's trivially easy to avoid paying taxes as a corporation. I wouldn't worry too much about the corporations. They could make the corporate tax rate 100%, and still, the bulk of corporations would never pay a dime. Likewise, giving them a big tax break won't lower their net tax burden below the current $0 that most pay. Unless you're suggesting we PAY them with taxpayer money.

Incidentally, Palin isn't against massive corporate taxes. She's got four different taxes going on the oil companies. That's why Alaska's gas prices are so high. (But then all that money gets redistributed to the Alaskan population each year in big checks, which more than make up for the extra gas cost, at least for people who aren't driving 1000 miles a day across the tundra.) The tax rate on Alaskan oil companies is a mind-boggling 75% on the profit of each barrel of oil. If you think the oil companies are greedy, well, they only get 25% of the profits in Alaska, and Governor Palin takes 75%. Because of that, she's probably responsible for at least a goodly chunk of the price we pay for gas in this country.

I think the best way to address corporate taxes is to do two things. First, go ahead and lower the rate. What is it now, 15%? Lower it to 5% or 10%. Secondly, apply the tax to the *gross* profit, not the net. This would simplify things enormously, and at the same time this would eliminate all loopholes. If this had been the case in the 90s, I would most definitely have paid some taxes. I felt a little guilty about how easy it was to pay none, but it was legal, and my attorney advised me to exploit all the loopholes I could, so I did. This minor change would benefit the very largest most profit-centric companies more than medium or small businesses, but I still think that it'd be more fair. But I bet if you offered the average small or medium business the choice between a 25% tax rate with all of today's loopholes, or 5% with none, they'd take the 25% and the loopholes. And why not, when they'd pay no taxes at all with the 25% rate, just as they pay none now.

I hear people say that our corporate tax rate is among the highest in the world. Yeah, it is...before you factor in the loopholes that reduce the tax burden for 70% of all corporations that do business in our country, foreign and domestic, to nothing. If you take all the corporate taxes actually *paid* by every corporation doing business in our country, add that all together, and divide by the combined revenue of those companies, I suspect we would compare very favorably indeed with any other country on this planet. In other words, while our base corporate rate may *appear* high, the number that matters is how much in taxes is actually paid per dollar of revenue, and that is a much, MUCH lower amount. You have to compare apples and apples.
:-|:-|:-|......................:roll: (You can write, but, can you read?)
 

South Texas

Well-Known Member
It's about time the truth is told. Follow the money, fuck the peoples concerns. These fucking Oil Companies are fighting the IRS, & EPA, while our Government steadily buys oil from people that want to kill us. Under the RICO Act, isn't that aiding & abetting terrorism?

quote=ccodiane;1326074]Exxon Mobil: Pays more tax than 50% of Americans combined Conservemus

Exxon Mobil: Pays more tax than 50% of Americans combined

Excerpt -

So, the bottom 50% of individual taxpayers (65 million total) in this country paid a total tax rate of 3% in 2004 ($27.4 billion/$922 billion). Compare that to Exxon Mobil in 2006, which posted taxable income of $67.4 billion and paid $27.9 billion in taxes for a total tax rate of 41%. Unbelievable.[/quote]
 

Bongulator

Well-Known Member
As I said, 70% of companies, foreign or domestic, pay no taxes at all. So you mentioned the biggest company of all. Yes, they pay taxes. Yes, they have 50 times as much money available to reinvest in their business as they did 20 years ago. No, they are not reinvesting it, because that would lower the price of gas and cut their profits -- and help us at the pump, but that's not the goal.

Exxon is one of the exceptions to the rule. But absolutely, the enormous profit-mongers do actually pay some taxes, including Microsoft, Google, Exxon, etc. And like I said, cut that to 5% or 10%...but no loopholes, for anyone. Exxon would like that, obviously. Most businesses would not, because they'd then have to actually pay something.

I've no problem with a lower corporate tax rate, none at all, if all the loopholes are abolished. But you don't get a lower rate *and* all the loopholes. It's too easy to abuse the system, however legal it may be. I sure did, as do most small and medium businesses, by which I mean businesses that do less than around $100 million in annual revenue.

And bear in mind, whatever tax rate Exxon pays, they still have the single most profitable quarter in U.S. history. In fact, they have the top TEN most profitable quarters in U.S. history, and all of those have come in the last five years. So, if you want me to get all weepy about a corporation and its troubles, you need to pick a different corporation. Even with Palin's mega-taxes, Exxon still manages to make a respectable 100% profit on each barrel of oil. Most businesses would KILL for a profit margin even a tenth that size.
 

ccodiane

New Member
As I said, 70% of companies, foreign or domestic, pay no taxes at all. So you mentioned the biggest company of all. Yes, they pay taxes. Yes, they have 50 times as much money available to reinvest in their business as they did 20 years ago. No, they are not reinvesting it, because that would lower the price of gas and cut their profits -- and help us at the pump, but that's not the goal.

Exxon is one of the exceptions to the rule. But absolutely, the enormous profit-mongers do actually pay some taxes, including Microsoft, Google, Exxon, etc. And like I said, cut that to 5% or 10%...but no loopholes, for anyone. Exxon would like that, obviously. Most businesses would not, because they'd then have to actually pay something.

I've no problem with a lower corporate tax rate, none at all, if all the loopholes are abolished. But you don't get a lower rate *and* all the loopholes. It's too easy to abuse the system, however legal it may be. I sure did, as do most small and medium businesses, by which I mean businesses that do less than around $100 million in annual revenue.

And bear in mind, whatever tax rate Exxon pays, they still have the single most profitable quarter in U.S. history. In fact, they have the top TEN most profitable quarters in U.S. history, and all of those have come in the last five years. So, if you want me to get all weepy about a corporation and its troubles, you need to pick a different corporation. Even with Palin's mega-taxes, Exxon still manages to make a respectable 100% profit on each barrel of oil. Most businesses would KILL for a profit margin even a tenth that size.
So massive profits are "bad" and massive losses are subsidized? Is this your working model? Genius.


http://money.cnn.com/2008/07/31/news/companies/exxon_profits/index.htm?cnn=yes

World's largest publicly traded oil firm makes $1,485.55 a second in the quarter, but misses forecasts.


Defenders of oil company profits also point out that their profit margin, at around 8%, is slightly below average for S&P 500 companies, and far below the 20%-plus margins seen at companies such as Microsoft or Pfizer.
 

Bongulator

Well-Known Member
*I* didn't say massive profits are bad. Governor Palin did. I just said I don't get all weepy about a mere 100% profit margin. I didn't say that should be a ceiling. Governor Palin did.

What *I* said is that it is wrong for the majority of businesses to pay no taxes at all. And I say that even though I was one of them. You disagree? You think all those loopholes result in a fair and equitable system? If so, then you have no knowledge about how corporations function, especially the financial end of them. Well, I do. I'm advocating lowering the tax rate -- but abolishing the weakness in the system that allows it to be unfairly exploited. You want to lower the rate *and* keep all the loopholes?

And I absolutely do not favor government bailouts. Only in the case of Fannie and Freddie would I make an exception, and that's because the collapse of the housing industry would hurt just about everyone, except for folks like me. AIG? Let it crash. Lehman? Who cares. Bear-Stearns? They should not have been bailed out in any way. The only people who have to worry about any of those are people with retirement accounts with money invested there, and the few tens of thousands that work at those places. That's not me, so why would I want to see anyone bailed out? I don't. Heck, if people want to watch the housing market collapse, okie doke -- that wouldn't affect me. Like I said, I own my home, I don't plan on selling it for ages, if ever, I don't need a second home, and I don't need to rent an apartment. If Fannie and Freddie go down, not a problem, at least not for me.
 

ccodiane

New Member
*I* didn't say massive profits are bad. Governor Palin did. I just said I don't get all weepy about a mere 100% profit margin. I didn't say that should be a ceiling. Governor Palin did.

What *I* said is that it is wrong for the majority of businesses to pay no taxes at all. And I say that even though I was one of them. You disagree? You think all those loopholes result in a fair and equitable system? I'm advocating lowering the tax rate -- but abolishing the weakness in the system at the same time. You want to lower the rate *and* keep all the loopholes?
What *I* said is that it is wrong for the majority of businesses to pay no taxes at all.

I disagree. With the premise.
 

Bongulator

Well-Known Member
Ah, I see. So only individuals should pay taxes, not corporations? Heh, pass that law and in a week I'll be a new LLC, paying no taxes at all. Again.

I could adapt to that! We'd have to give up a few things: space program, national highway system, public schools, and so on. Nothing I can't live without, personally. (I don't drive to other states, don't have kids, don't need an education.)
 

ccodiane

New Member
Ah, I see. So only individuals should pay taxes, not corporations? Heh, pass that law and in a week I'll be a new LLC, paying no taxes at all. Again.

I could adapt to that! We'd have to give up a few things: space program, national highway system, public schools, and so on. Nothing I can't live without, personally. (I don't drive to other states, don't have kids, don't need an education.)
:-?

"the majority of businesses pay no taxes at all."

&

"*I* don't need an education
"

False.

&

Falser.
 

Bongulator

Well-Known Member
Not false. You're sounding like McCain there. Many businesses pay no corporate taxes at all, and that is a fact. I'd say you could take it to the bank, but I'd be scared of taking anything to the bank these days.

Here's a quote from MSNmoney:

"With corporate tax receipts at 20-year low, the GAO takes a look through the books and finds 94% of U.S. corporations paid less than 5% -- and 61% paid nothing at all."

So there ya go. Plenty of articles about it too, try CNNmoney if you like, for different phrasing. Same data, different words. Same data because it comes from the Government Accounting Office, and I guess the GAO is wondering why so few corporations are paying taxes, and 94% of them paid less than 5%, even during the boom years.

Damn those facts, always getting in the way.

But since it does look so rosy for corporations, I am going ahead and reincorporating, so I can go back to hiding most of my tax burden. I talked to my lawyer yesterday, and he's drawing up the paperwork now. My new business? Consulting with individuals, to help *them* avoid paying taxes too, by abusing the available loopholes that I too will be abusing, again. Hey, it's legal! I got two clients yesterday evening, neighbors. Ironically, they're both lawyers. They don't have my experience though, and corporate law isn't their field (city prosecutor and divorce attorney), but they do want to exploit the system to lower their taxes, and I will be helping them, for a hefty fee. (Which I will then spend on some new laptops or color laser printers or furniture or something, so that I don't make a 'profit'. Heh.)

Hey, if they're gonna make it this easy to avoid paying taxes, who am I to complain? If ya can't beat them, *become* them.
 

ccodiane

New Member
Not false. You're sounding like McCain there. Many businesses pay no corporate taxes at all, and that is a fact. I'd say you could take it to the bank, but I'd be scared of taking anything to the bank these days.

Here's a quote from MSNmoney:

"With corporate tax receipts at 20-year low, the GAO takes a look through the books and finds 94% of U.S. corporations paid less than 5% -- and 61% paid nothing at all."

So there ya go. Plenty of articles about it too, try CNNmoney if you like, for different phrasing. Same data, different words. Same data because it comes from the Government Accounting Office, and I guess the GAO is wondering why so few corporations are paying taxes, and 94% of them paid less than 5%, even during the boom years.

Damn those facts, always getting in the way.

But since it does look so rosy for corporations, I am going ahead and reincorporating, so I can go back to hiding most of my tax burden. I talked to my lawyer yesterday, and he's drawing up the paperwork now. My new business? Consulting with individuals, to help *them* avoid paying taxes too, by abusing the available loopholes that I too will be abusing, again. Hey, it's legal! I got two clients yesterday evening, neighbors. Ironically, they're both lawyers. They don't have my experience though, and corporate law isn't their field (city prosecutor and divorce attorney), but they do want to exploit the system to lower their taxes, and I will be helping them, for a hefty fee. (Which I will then spend on some new laptops or color laser printers or furniture or something, so that I don't make a 'profit'. Heh.)

Hey, if they're gonna make it this easy to avoid paying taxes, who am I to complain? If ya can't beat them, *become* them.
Source it with a link then. I'd look to the IRS website, if I was trying to back up a statistic on taxes. Just a suggestion.

http://www.irs.gov/taxstats/bustaxstats/article/0,,id=96293,00.html
 
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