How big is Canada’s marijuana market, really?Here’s why that’s not safe bet

gb123

Well-Known Member
Many are gambling demand will skyrocket when pot is legal. Here’s why that’s not a safe bet!


In June, a company called MYM Nutraceuticals announced plans to build one of the world’s largest marijuana greenhouse operations. It’s a joint venture of sorts with the town of Weedon (naturally) in Quebec, where the municipality will buy the land and the company will have the right to purchase the acreage later. MYM anticipates the operation will consist of 15 greenhouses totalling 1.5 million-square-feet of production space. At full capacity, MYM says it can produce more than 150 metric tons of cannabis per year, worth about $750 million. In another release a few days later, the “Weedon Project” had apparently expanded to include a cannabis education centre, a cannabis museum, a 2,500-person auditorium and a 22-room hotel. The release also saw fit to mention that the president of MYM’s cannabis subsidiary is the nephew of “Canadian hockey super star” Guy Lafleur.

The project, to say the least, is ambitious—MYM Nutraceuticals is a penny stock that doesn’t even have a license from Health Canada to produce marijuana in Weedon—yet. But such bold pronouncements are not out of the place among publicly traded cannabis startups. Companies with little to no revenue can attain fat valuations as investors pile into the sector, based on the assumption that a multi-billion cannabis market will emerge after the federal government legalizes recreational consumption next year. But the size of that market and how much marijuana Canadians will really consume is still anyone’s guess. Companies and investors could end up burned if their optimistic projections never materialize.

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A lot depends on just how much marijuana Canadians consume. A survey of 1,500 Canadians conducted by Abacus Data on behalf of Maclean’s as part of The Canada Project found that 84 per cent of respondents over the age of 18 never smoke marijuana. Of the 16 per cent of Canadians that do, daily users amount to 5 per cent, while 3 per cent say they use a few times a week.

These findings show less enthusiasm for marijuana than some other studies. Deloitte, for example, published a report last year that found 22 per cent of adult Canadians use marijuana at least some of them time. Based on that number, Deloitte estimates the base retail market value of recreational marijuana could be up to $8.7 billion. With ancillary services such as security thrown in, Deloitte projects a total market size of $22.6 billion. But in arriving at these estimates, Deloitte included another 17 per cent of respondents who said they “might” try marijuana if legalized, “suggesting the total potential marketplace…is close to 40% of the adult population.”




That could prove to be a big assumption. How many non-users will become tokers after legalization is still unknown. Even among existing users, the majority of marijuana is consumed by a minority of people. The Parliamentary Budget Office anticipates that Canadians who use cannabis at least once a week will account for 98 per cent of all marijuana consumption. Russell Stanley, an equity analyst at Echelon Wealth Partners who covers marijuana stocks, is not counting on a surge of new users. “I’m sure there will be people who might decide to try it,” he says, “but really the opportunity is that the illicit market will move to legal consumption.”

How much marijuana will be needed to satisfy that demand is another unknown. Canaccord Genuity estimates the combined recreational and medical markets could require 575 metric tons by 2021. Neil Closner, the CEO of marijuana producer MedReleaf Corp., has said demand could total 1,000 metric tons. The problem, he said in an interview on BNN this month, is that producers weren’t growing enough marijuana. “If you add up all of the announcements from all of the licensed producers to date in terms of their expected capacity growth over the next year, you’re only hitting at about half of their total demand,” Closner said. The host seemed amazed by Closner’s estimates. “A thousand tons,” he parroted. He didn’t press for specifics.

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THE CANADA PROJECT How Canadians see our country at 150
In a follow-up with Maclean’s, the company referred to a report from CIBC that extrapolated from the size of Colorado’s recreational industry to project a $10-billion market in Canada. MedReleaf worked backward from there to arrive at 1,000 tons of supply. (To complicate matters, the CIBC report has been criticized by the Marijuana Policy Group, a Denver-based consulting firm, for overstating potential tax revenue from cannabis sales in Canada by 300 per cent.)

 

gb123

Well-Known Member
The Marijuana Policy Group cautions against simply scaling up Colorado’s market to gauge the potential in Canada, as some analysts and companies have done. (The firm is preparing a report for Health Canada, and declined to comment specifically on the country’s potential recreational market.) One difference is that Colorado is surrounded by states that haven’t legalized, and it benefits from tourists who come to take advantage of the recreational market. There is also the possibility that some cannabis is purchased legally in Colorado, and then transported out-of-state and sold illicitly at a markup. “You can’t take that Colorado model and say Canada is going to have the same kind of growth trajectory,” says Chris Damas, editor of an investment newsletter called the BCMI Report, which analyzes marijuana stocks.

Stanley at Echelon contends the differences between Colorado and Canada cut the other way, too. The legal age in Colorado is 21, for example. “Nobody in Canada has firmly said what they’re going to do yet,” he says, “but the legal age could effectively be a couple of years lower here.” The New Brunswick government’s working group on cannabis this month recommended the legal age be set at 19. Two years can make big a difference in terms of the size of the market, since young people are more likely to use cannabis.

Because of these uncertainties, even the PBO’s estimates vary widely: By 2021, Canadians could consume anywhere between 403 and 1190 metric tons of cannabis. Recently, some analysts and politicians have raised concerns that producers won’t be able to satisfy demand next year should the federal government legalize the recreational market as planned. (Health Canada has pledged to speed up its approval process.) Damas says these concerns are overblown. There might be a supply crunch in the short-term, but oversupply could be the bigger issue for the industry over the next few years.

MORE: If you’ve ever smoke marijuana, beware of the U.S. border

For starters, he doubts that every recreational user will immediately switch over to the legal market. “The illicit market is not going to give up their share that easily,” Damas says. Not every province and territory may be ready to introduce a legal regime next year, and the availability of marijuana will vary by location. Urbanites will likely have an easier time finding legal cannabis than those rural areas, for example.

Meanwhile, new companies are still emerging and existing players are announcing expansion plans. Damas estimates the legal market will amount to 360 tons of consumption initially. Producers are already on track to pump out 475 tons of cannabis—and that’s a conservative estimate. Other jurisdictions have dealt with oversupply. Growers in Colorado saturated the market last year, sending wholesale prices tumbling. Washington went from a shortage of marijuana when recreational sales began in 2014 to a supply glut in just six months.

As legalization in Canada creeps closer, some of the investor enthusiasm for marijuana stocks has waned. Stanley says share prices have come down as much as 20 per cent over the past few months. Analysts chalk it up to the uncertainty around how the recreational market—everything from distribution to taxation—will ultimately operate.
 

vancityj

Well-Known Member
‘We’ve seen a lot of big money in the room’: Toronto is becoming North America’s hub for marijuana financing

Marijuana investors from both sides of the border flocked to the city this week to eye a new crop of companies — a robot that trims pot plants won the day

SUNNY FREEMAN, FINANCIAL POST 07.19.2017

U.S.-based cannabis investment firm Arcview Group says it is impressed by the calibre of investors, including big funds and institutional investors, who are interested in the Canadian marijuana market, despite having little involvement in cannabis south of the border.

John Downs, Arcview’s director of business development, said the high levels of Canadian capital pouring into cannabis, as well as the country’s plans for legalization, piqued the firm’s interest in holding an event in Toronto.

“We’re paying attention down south, we actually look to our northern neighbours as leaders in the space,” he said Tuesday at the Arcview Investor Pitch Forum, its first event in Canada.

“I would consider Toronto a significant hub for cannabis financing.”

An increasing number of U.S. marijuana companies are eyeing investment opportunities in Canada as they see companies garner significant investment dollars and huge valuations both through their ability to list publicly on Canadian exchanges and through private investment interest.

Canadian-listed marijuana companies are considered less risky for investors because in the U.S. the drug is still illegal at the federal level, even in states that legalized medicinal and/or recreational use.

The investment firm hosted a “Dragon’s Den-style pitch competition to connect Canadian and American entrepreneurs and investors. It has held 35 such investor forums in the United States.

“When we are in the United States, our audience membership tends to skew toward high net-worth individuals, we don’t see a lot of funds or institutions,” Downs said.

“Here, it seems there are many more institutions that are willing to go in and engage and invest in the industry and that’s a huge boon for us, we’ve seen a lot of big money in the room.”

One of Arcview’s investment partners, Colorado-based cannabis venture fund and accelerator hub Canopy Boulder also made the trip north of the border to scope out potential investments in the Canadian cannabis space.

“Canada has the opportunity to become a model to the rest of the world for federal legalization,” said managing director Patrick Rea.

Canopy (no relation to the Canadian licensed producer of the same name) took the idea for building an accelerator hub from the tech industry. The company, which has invested in and helped grow 64 marijuana start-ups, sees huge opportunity in the space, partly because there are no giant companies that early stage companies must contend with.

“In many ways, Canada reminds us of how Colorado was a couple years ago, on the verge of a massive period of growth and the resulting needs and demands from those licensed businesses will drive all sorts of economic benefit,” Rea said.

Bloom Automation, one of the marijuana start-ups that went through Canopy’s accelerator program, won over the judges Tuesday with its pitch to bring its “bloombot” robots to the cannabis industry.

The company has inked five letters of intent in the U.S. and is looking for US$400,000 to bring its robots that trim the plants to the testing stage in time for planned market availability next year. The robots cost about US$24,000 apiece. The company estimates that breaks down to about US$16 to US$24 per pound, compared to US$100 to US$150 per pound for human trimmers.

The company’s pitch Tuesday also caught the ears of several Canadian licensed producers in attendance who are interested in the efficiencies robotics could create, said CEO John Gowa.

“We’ve been talking to licensed producers and there’s a much greater focus in Canada on automation, on not having old- fashioned labour techniques because they’re producing a larger capacity at a commercial scale.”

http://business.financialpost.com/commodities/agriculture/weve-seen-a-lot-of-big-money-in-the-room-toronto-becoming-north-american-hub-for-cannabis-financing/wcm/25333a60-de6f-4d3e-9177-e955e3490b42
 

The Hippy

Well-Known Member
When your that GREEDY...you usually get handed your ass later.
Imagine eh..... Hotels.....museums........too fuckin funny. They are so clueless it really pretty funny. They just figure all of us are gonna run to their schwagg like the sheep they usually control. BIG NEWS...not going to happen.
You'd think they'd consult some actual user of cannabis.....they never seems like they do though. Or they do consult us and don't like what they hear so ignore the advise.
Let me tell all you wanna be legal seers of weed. Our asses have been ground so many times that we
WILL NEVER buy your shit...even if it free...cuz it will be garbage.
Anyway it's gonna be fun to see millions of wasted dollars from greed bag fools.

What pisses me off the most is none of them are sorry we all got busted or had lives ruined. Nope all the same jerks who busted us or didn't care now think e are their new cash cows.
Fuck them
And if you support them...fuck you too asshole.
BOYCOTT or be a cunt.
 

nobody important 666

Well-Known Member
When your that GREEDY...you usually get handed your ass later.
Imagine eh..... Hotels.....museums........too fuckin funny. They are so clueless it really pretty funny. They just figure all of us are gonna run to their schwagg like the sheep they usually control. BIG NEWS...not going to happen.
You'd think they'd consult some actual user of cannabis.....they never seems like they do though. Or they do consult us and don't like what they hear so ignore the advise.
Let me tell all you wanna be legal seers of weed. Our asses have been ground so many times that we
WILL NEVER buy your shit...even if it free...cuz it will be garbage.
Anyway it's gonna be fun to see millions of wasted dollars from greed bag fools.

What pisses me off the most is none of them are sorry we all got busted or had lives ruined. Nope all the same jerks who busted us or didn't care now think e are their new cash cows.
Fuck them
And if you support them...fuck you too asshole.
BOYCOTT or be a cunt.
The sad part is probably 90% of the smoking population will run to them and the worst parts is they will be thanking them acting like they are reinventing the wheel. Ive already seen it start to happen.
 
A considerable measure relies upon exactly how much maryjane Canadians expend. A study of 1,500 Canadians led by Math device Information for the benefit of Maclean's as a feature of The Canada Undertaking found that 84 for every penny of respondents beyond 18 years old never smoke pot. Of the 16 for every penny of Canadians that do, day by day clients add up to 5 for each penny, while 3 for each penny say they utilize a couple of times each week. For more guide you can go here.
 

gb123

Well-Known Member
it's called "scratching and crawling" lol..

The Next time yer at the Hockey Rink?!! .,,,, Ask the Crowd what their thoughts are and weather they plan on partaking.
no billion dollar market ,,,,and why you say?!?! because its already covered.
If you want any part of it..Grow the best cleanest meds there are and people will beat a path to your door!



we wont give LP's shit for their poison shwags! ;) and why you say?
Med people are smart and don't like poison.
Med folks need clean meds. LP's use 22 different poison that cannot be washed off and they irradiate the medicine with no thought to the patient.
Med folks are not buying the poison now
med people can grow their own clean meds safely with out poison. They have that right in cannada, court ordered.
The System was set up for the SICK and used as a guise to get REC,,,and they admit it and we said it would go this way ..and the fools are spouting with out even realizing..and its hilarious. They'll look funny in court sputtering away...

but bu bu da da der uh umm err ah..I can see the face of whom I speaking now :lol:

No market is no market after all and no sales are no sales.. Why you say?
Price.
Tax.
Being Poisoned class action lawsuit.
No access
MORE new criminal fines!
there's more.... :lol:


NO PROFIT...well..Not one has any or will they see any and every investor is gonna soon say..

SHOW US THE MONEY ;)
...........and there wont be any to show :lol:

Lets WAGER ON IT !! Ill put a 1/2 p on (No sales) (Government help):cool:
 
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Canadain Closet Gardener

Well-Known Member
I'm just amazed at the amount of capacity all these places will have. I have no idea what the BM capacity at the moment is at the moment. I can't even imagine it's has a 1/4 of the capacity of all these new LP operations are going to have.
I can't see bringing 5 times the demand to market is going to keep the price stable enough for investors and bankers.

I see it going this way in Ontario (My comparison from early 90's)
I do see the LCBO (Hell Angels) entering into long term stupid contracts with the LPs (Growers in BC) with guaranteed prices and the taxpayers losing lots of money. Then saying well there is too much competition from BM guys. We need help, we need more police(Muscle hells Angels 1%) to beat up force out our competition.
Does that make sense?
Cheers
CCG
 

Canadain Closet Gardener

Well-Known Member
welcome to the Black market?
Do you actually believe the idea of Black market?
I don't know what to call it?
BM = current supplier
It was more of how screwed up it is. The amount of money going to be lost is going to be staggering.
I think they should hand out as many licences as they can. Let the market dictate what sells and for how much. I also think it should be as hard to get a licence as it would be to register a dog or cat.
Cheers
CCG
 

gb123

Well-Known Member
call it a bunch of folks looking to help others out who want a product that is illegal..
and they ve done a great job of it over the last 60 years..
no one gets hurt with this product! Only prohibition would cause such issues..by turning it into gold! ;)
and by allowing police to force their ways..
 

CalyxCrusher

Well-Known Member
I'm just amazed at the amount of capacity all these places will have. I have no idea what the BM capacity at the moment is at the moment. I can't even imagine it's has a 1/4 of the capacity of all these new LP operations are going to have.
I can't see bringing 5 times the demand to market is going to keep the price stable enough for investors and bankers.

I see it going this way in Ontario (My comparison from early 90's)
I do see the LCBO (Hell Angels) entering into long term stupid contracts with the LPs (Growers in BC) with guaranteed prices and the taxpayers losing lots of money. Then saying well there is too much competition from BM guys. We need help, we need more police(Muscle hells Angels 1%) to beat up force out our competition.
Does that make sense?
Cheers
CCG
Can't say it does
 

zoic

Well-Known Member
I can't see bringing 5 times the demand to market is going to keep the price stable enough for investors and bankers.
It is hard to imagine they can bring that much to market if they only plan 40 outlets in Ontario. Can you imagine how difficult it would be to purchase from the BM if their where only 40 dealers in all of Ontario.

Knowing a guy who knows a guy who gets you your pot: it's familiar, trusted and feels safe
 
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