How much Cal+Mag should I add with Canna Coco nutes?

Helmut79

Helmut79

Well-Known Member
I've been feeding Canna Coco A&B since starting seeds.

Then I gave my plants 0,4mg/1L of Calmag as soon as I transplanted cubes into coco coir, but then my plants turned bright yellowish and I lowered Calmag to 0,2mg/1L.

I'm so unsure about the amount of Calmag I should be giving to my plants.
 
cottee

cottee

Well-Known Member
Helmut79 said:
I've been feeding Canna Coco A&B since starting seeds.

Then I gave my plants 0,4mg/1L of Calmag as soon as I transplanted cubes into coco coir, but then my plants turned bright yellowish and I lowered Calmag to 0,2mg/1L.

I'm so unsure about the amount of Calmag I should be giving to my plants.
Click to expand...
I don't start with the calmag until I switch to 12/12. I give them 0.5m per liter
 
C

churchhaze

Well-Known Member
Calmag+ is snake oil.

Most hydroponic formulated nutrients get the majority of their calcium AND nitrogen from calcium nitrate anyway (main ingredient in cal-mag+).

If you really did need more calcium, you could use more of the base nutes bottle that contains calcium nitrate, or you could just buy calcium nitrate for like 1-2 dollars a pound online.
 
cottee

cottee

Well-Known Member
churchhaze said:
Calmag+ is snake oil.

Most hydroponic formulated nutrients get the majority of their calcium AND nitrogen from calcium nitrate anyway (main ingredient in cal-mag+).

If you really did need more calcium, you could use more of the base nutes bottle that contains calcium nitrate, or you could just buy calcium nitrate for like 1-2 dollars a pound online.
Click to expand...
canna don't put enough calmag in in canna coco a&b. I used to get rusty leaves all the time then discovers It was a calcium deficiency. Since adding 0,5m of a calmag never had the problem.
 
C

churchhaze

Well-Known Member
If you have a calcium deficiency in coco, use calcium nitrate.

The main ingredient in cal-mag+ is calcium nitrate. (look on the back) The reason cal-mag is snake oil is because it's diluted and overpriced.

Calcium nitrate is cheap.

cottee said:
canna don't put enough calmag in in canna coco a&b. I used to get rusty leaves all the time then discovers It was a calcium deficiency. Since adding 0,5m of a calmag never had the problem.
Click to expand...
 
BROBIE

BROBIE

Well-Known Member
It is recommended to start off your first 2 weeks or so with extra calcium (botanicare is one of them) It is inherent with the medium to do so . It says so on the coco wrapper.
 
cottee

cottee

Well-Known Member
BROBIE said:
It is recommended to start off your first 2 weeks or so with extra calcium (botanicare is one of them) It is inherent with the medium to do so . It says so on the coco wrapper.
Click to expand...
never new that. My plants always look nice with out it until they start flowering which is when I start using it. What's the reasoning behind staring it so early?
 
BROBIE

BROBIE

Well-Known Member
cottee said:
never new that. My plants always look nice with out it until they start flowering which is when I start using it. What's the reasoning behind staring it so early?
Click to expand...

From Eric Biksa:
Some coirs have been chemically treated, this is most often the case with loose pre-hydrated varieties versus compressed blocks. The treatment has been done to satisfy the cation exchange capacity (CEC) of the growing media. As a refresher, “cations” are positively charged ions, such as Calcium, Magnesium, Sodium, and Potassium. This means that the growing media will hold these ions in a matrix, releasing them as required by plants. There is one slight drawback to this. Until the cation exchange capacity of the growing media is filled, the growing media may hold positively charged nutrient ions, most notably calcium, in reserve, making them less available to plants. However, the cation exchange capacity (CEC) of the coir media is quickly filled, and actually assists calcium absorption in the crop cycle. To ensure optimum availability of all nutrients, supply additional calcium during the first week of growth or during the hydrating process of the coconut coir. Calcium supplement products are ideal for this. Some nutrients specifically formulated for coco tend to have elevated levels of calcium and magnesium while having lower levels of nitrogen.

 
C

churchhaze

Well-Known Member
This doesn't even make sense. If you raise calcium while leaving potassium the same, nitrogen levels will be higher, not lower.

This is because ... and I'll say it again.... All the calcium in water soluble plant food is derived from calcium nitrate!

There's a direct correlation (it's empirical) between nitrate levels and calcium levels. Calcium nitrate is where most of the N comes from too.

BROBIE said:
From Eric Biksa:
...
Some nutrients specifically formulated for coco tend to have elevated levels of calcium and magnesium while having lower levels of nitrogen.
Click to expand...
 
BROBIE

BROBIE

Well-Known Member
I don't know what UR arguing about Church.... I posted why coco is a cal hog. Coco has high K itself so ???? Magnesium nitrate, potassium nitrate? General Hydro uses these sources and thus provides a shitload of nitrate.Hence why Lucas works. Cottee: maybe why you have had no problem is because the coco you used was pre-charged with calcium ?? who knows. Church also you stated cal-mag is snake oil in that you can use more of the base nute if needed. Cal-mag is as cheap , if not cheaper than a base nute. Good cal-mag also has a nice supply of micro's in it. Some plants IMO don't need it, others do. Depends, gotta read the plant.
 
WestDenverPioneer

WestDenverPioneer

Well-Known Member
I've seen coco root balls lock up and spike the pH. Test the runoff after you feed and see if its at a dangerous level. If so, flush it with water until the runoff is acceptable. Then feed with properly adjusted nutrient solution.
 
C

churchhaze

Well-Known Member
BROBIE said:
Magnesium nitrate, potassium nitrate? General Hydro uses these sources and thus provides a shitload of nitrate.Hence why Lucas works
Click to expand...
The majority of the nitrates in lucas formula is from the calcium nitrate in the GH flora micro bottle.

Potassium nitrate is higher in K than N, and thus can only provide a small amount of the total nitrates. Magnesium nitrate can only provide a tiny amount of the nitrates as you need very little magnesium. Calcium nitrate has 2 nitrates per calcium ion, while potassium nitrate only has one nitrate per potassium ion.

I don't see why your arguing with me. Calcium nitrate is the main source of nitrogen in lucas formula. You don't need cal-mag+ if you have GH flora micro. Flora micro is comprised mostly of calcium nitrate (and water of course).

My main point, however, is that getting calcium nitrate is WAY WAY cheaper than buying cal-mag+ OR GH flora micro. Why is everyone so stubborn. It's like the key ingredient and it's dirt cheap. Just get it.
 
cottee

cottee

Well-Known Member
BROBIE said:
I don't know what UR arguing about Church.... I posted why coco is a cal hog. Coco has high K itself so ???? Magnesium nitrate, potassium nitrate? General Hydro uses these sources and thus provides a shitload of nitrate.Hence why Lucas works. Cottee: maybe why you have had no problem is because the coco you used was pre-charged with calcium ?? who knows. Church also you stated cal-mag is snake oil in that you can use more of the base nute if needed. Cal-mag is as cheap , if not cheaper than a base nute. Good cal-mag also has a nice supply of micro's in it. Some plants IMO don't need it, others do. Depends, gotta read the plant.
Click to expand...
This convo is getting far to technical for me lol. I use canna coco. just looked on there website and it say nothing about calcium so I assume they must pre charge it. Never had a cal def in veg.
 
BROBIE

BROBIE

Well-Known Member
churchhaze said:
The majority of the nitrates in lucas formula is from the calcium nitrate in the GH flora micro bottle.

Potassium nitrate is higher in K than N, and thus can only provide a small amount of the total nitrates. Magnesium nitrate can only provide a tiny amount of the nitrates as you need very little magnesium. Calcium nitrate has 2 nitrates per calcium ion, while potassium nitrate only has one nitrate per potassium ion.

I don't see why your arguing with me. Calcium nitrate is the main source of nitrogen in lucas formula. You don't need cal-mag+ if you have GH flora micro. Flora micro is comprised mostly of calcium nitrate (and water of course).

My main point, however, is that getting calcium nitrate is WAY WAY cheaper than buying cal-mag+ OR GH flora micro. Why is everyone so stubborn. It's like the key ingredient and it's dirt cheap. Just get it.
Click to expand...
No argument church. Just sayin that a bottle of cal-mag is just as cheap as using a micro part of a 3-part. As for your message to have people buy raw materials: Fine if you have the time. Snake oil is something that doesn't work. cal-mag works and you pay for convienience, no crime there. lol
 
C

churchhaze

Well-Known Member
How is it more convenient?

It's the same damn thing. How is it simpler to use cal-mag? It's actually harder. I just scoop some into the reservoir. done.

It's cal-mag that's inconvenient. It's snake oil because it's what you're looking for diluted in water. Homeopathic snake oil. The essence of calcium.

BROBIE said:
Snake oil is something that doesn't work. cal-mag works and you pay for convienience, no crime there. lol
Click to expand...
 
BROBIE

BROBIE

Well-Known Member
churchhaze said:
How is it more convenient?

It's the same damn thing. How is it simpler to use cal-mag? It's actually harder. I just scoop some into the reservoir. done.

It's cal-mag that's inconvenient. It's snake oil because it's what you're looking for diluted in water. Homeopathic snake oil. The essence of calcium.
Click to expand...

ok if you say so but snake oil means something that doesn't work. The term is overused imo.
 
WestDenverPioneer

WestDenverPioneer

Well-Known Member
cottee said:
Calmag works. That's the excuse to buy it
Click to expand...
I don't need an excuse.
Calcium and Magnesium are required elements for proper plant health. They are non movable nutrients and need to be supplemented to avoid deficiencies. It doesn't matter if you buy it in liquid or granular form. It doesn't matter if you buy it by one name or another.
For example, if you go into a an aquarium store you'll find tap water dechlorinator in bottles. You could just as easily purchase sodium thiosulfate and perform your own dilutions to make your own dechlorinator. That's basically what churchhaze is arguing calcium nitrate over using readily available cal-mag. It's the same thing by a different name and you perform your own dilution ratio.
 
C

churchhaze

Well-Known Member
Do you realize just how much cheaper it is to buy calcium nitrate dry salt?

Yara greenhouse grade calcium nitrate is like 1-2 dollars a pound in small quantities (under 50lb). 1lb is enough to make about a gallon of cal-mag+. Do you like throwing money down the toilet?

Also consider that when you don't include the water, shipping is a fraction of the weight.

cottee said:
Calmag works. That's the excuse to buy it
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top