Lucas Formula Recipe from Scratch "Really"

This is based upon an analysis of bottled GH micro and bloom combined on a 1 to 2 , so: N=5, P=10, K=9 and M=3
i.e the Lucas Formula

Amounts are in Ounces: Final ppm each nutrient: N=176, P=133, K=300, M=100, Calcium=166
Part A.
Calcium Nitrate 75.3
Iron Chelate 2.25

Part B.
Mono Potassium Phosphate 104.8
Magnesium Sulfate 67.4

Trace Part B.
Manganese Sulfate 0.448
Boric Acid 0.085
Zinc Sulfate 0.009
Copper Sulfate 0.003
Ammonium Molybdate 0.0014


This recipe is for a x100 concentrate. That means a combination of 2.5 gallons of Part A. And 2.5 gallons of Part B to which the trace nutrients are added. With all mixed to gether in a dry mix you have the dry mix equivalent of Floro Nova Bloom without the added humus.

This should cost about $35 to mix up. ie about $7 per gallon.

fatman7574 said:

This is based upon an analysis of bottled GH micro and bloom combined on a 1 to 2 , so: N=5, P=10, K=9 and M=3
i.e the Lucas Formula

Amounts are in Ounces: Final ppm each nutrient: N=176, P=133, K=300, M=100, Calcium=166
Part A.
Calcium Nitrate 75.3
Iron Chelate 2.25

Part B.
Mono Potassium Phosphate 104.8
Magnesium Sulfate 67.4

Trace Part B.
Manganese Sulfate 0.448
Boric Acid 0.085
Zinc Sulfate 0.009
Copper Sulfate 0.003
Ammonium Molybdate 0.0014


This recipe is for a x100 concentrate. That means a combination of 2.5 gallons of Part A. And 2.5 gallons of Part B to which the trace nutrients are added. With all mixed to gether in a dry mix you have the dry mix equivalent of Floro Nova Bloom without the added humus.

This should cost about $35 to mix up. ie about $7 per gallon.

Click to expand...

u know ur shit bub, you a botanist?

fatman7574 said:

This is based upon an analysis of bottled GH micro and bloom combined on a 1 to 2 , so: N=5, P=10, K=9 and M=3
i.e the Lucas Formula

Amounts are in Ounces: Final ppm each nutrient: N=176, P=133, K=300, M=100, Calcium=166
Part A.
Calcium Nitrate 75.3
Iron Chelate 2.25

Part B.
Mono Potassium Phosphate 104.8
Magnesium Sulfate 67.4

Trace Part B.
Manganese Sulfate 0.448
Boric Acid 0.085
Zinc Sulfate 0.009
Copper Sulfate 0.003
Ammonium Molybdate 0.0014


This recipe is for a x100 concentrate. That means a combination of 2.5 gallons of Part A. And 2.5 gallons of Part B to which the trace nutrients are added. With all mixed to gether in a dry mix you have the dry mix equivalent of Floro Nova Bloom without the added humus.

This should cost about $35 to mix up. ie about $7 per gallon.

Click to expand...

woot!! awesome, plan on making this my next batch of noots for my next grow (using MaxiBloom from GH now powder)

Based upon the most recent analysis of Floramicro and Flora Bloom this is the corrected formula for the Luca Method:

ppm concentrations at a 1:100 dilution

Nitrogen 167
Phosphorus 333
Potassium 397
Magnesium 100
Calcium 215
Sulfur 133
Iron 3.33
Manganese 1.67
Boron 1.67
Zinc 1.00
Copper .33
Molybdenum .03

Ounces
PART A
Calcium Nitrate 14.2
Iron Chelate .45

Ounces
Part B
MonoPotassium Phosphate 21.0
Magnesium Sulfate 13.5
Manganese Sulfate .090
Boric Acid / Solubor.123
Zinc Sulfate .058
Copper Sulfate .020
Ammonium Molybdate .001

Volume of Stock Solutions 1/2 gallon each part

Dilution Rate
100

This is a high concentrate formulation based upon analysis concentrations. The EC of the Part A is 1.08, Part B EC = 1.64, combined the EC is 2.72. Obviously a higher EC then most would consider using.

The PH used with RO water should be 5.4 at 1:100

The TDS ast a 1:100 mix is 1904

btw, Fatman, I wanted to ask you, do you really honestly believe there will be absolutely no difference between a home mixed nutrients, and say AN highest product line, including all additives?

So, say a comparison of home made nuts, vs Advanced Nut's, one costs $3, and other costs $700. Do you really think both products will be identical?

Or is it possible the AN will have 5-10% higher yield or higher quality?

It just seems to be, if they were identical, then more companies would enter the market and bring the price down, with such an easily replicatable formula, there would be huge profits to be made for everyone.

-regards
Squarepusher

There are already hundreds of other manafacturers producing nutrients at much cheaper costs than those sold by AN or GH.

I am syaing that given the true analysis of any fertilzer product that the same nutrient of the same quality acn be mixed in y a home. The problem lies in that only a few states require that manfacturers suplly a completer guranteed analysis on the fertilizer products. Those states will not allow fertilizer sells in their staes without this full disclosure. However these states do not have lawsrequring the supplements have a guranteed nayalisids on any of the ingrednats except the fertilizers they contain. These states presently are trying to pass legislation to require that supplements all have full guranteed analyiss on their packaging. Until that time, it is not practical to try to l keep up with all the game playing companies go through to prevent the information be known.

As far as AN I have the complete analysis on 22 fertilizers produced by them. The others eight formulations contain supplements that they have not willing disclosed. I have the chemical analyisis on the fertilizers but not the analysis of the supplments. As a result those products can not be sold in those states requring c disclosure. However with most of those it is just humic and fulvic acids that have been added. Their supplments I have no information on other than the few that the universtity analyzed. That is not public information so I can not release that info. Just about every manafcturer except AN readily releases full analysis data freely even on their supplements.

Here is the Washington state site for fertilizers. http://agr.wa.gov/PestFert/Fertilizers/FertDB/Product1.aspx?action=ViewTable&ltr=G As you will see there are many hundres of fertilizer gurantedd analysis give. All you need to formulate any know n fertilzer is the guranateed anaysis. You will notice though that there are no AN analysis on the Washington State site. AN goes out of its way to make as much maney as it can while it can. Washington state just wont play the AN games so the AN products can not be sold there. It is really as simple as if the U.S. legalized growing pot to morrow AN would probably shut their doors tomorrow. The only thing special about AN products is that they do not release to the the public freely any inforation they can withhold legally or illegally. Its really comical as there are no secrets in the industry. Everyone knows exactly what every one is doing or selling. It's all just a money making scam with AN.

I can send you a mixing recipe for any of the main line AN products or any other mnafacturers products for which you can provide the analysis. I also have many guranteed analysis for formulations (such as AN) that are not on that site.

in what doses should I use liquid karma with the gh three part hardwater micro and tapwater. I use their calcualtor on the gh website, as I am sure you have checked out. They use several supplemnts that I feel liquid karma takes care of all at once or at least with a lot more humic acid than they do.

I challenge you fatman to formualte a proper theory and guideline for the use of lq with gh.


thanks. lol.


(yu dont have too)

I am just adding it like the bottle says. I am sure to be happy.

tea tree said:

in what doses should I use liquid karma with the gh three part hardwater micro and tapwater. I use their calcualtor on the gh website, as I am sure you have checked out. They use several supplemnts that I feel liquid karma takes care of all at once or at least with a lot more humic acid than they do.

I challenge you fatman to formualte a proper theory and guideline for the use of lq with gh.


thanks. lol.


(yu dont have too)

I am just adding it like the bottle says. I am sure to be happy.

Click to expand...

I'm running a basic Lucas formula, which I am pretty happy with and plan to use throughout my grow. I am using just powder noots.

However, I have to give some credit to a lot of testimony from growers who have had good experience with 'boosters,' essentially PK boosters. I believe GH Koolbloom is like 0-45-25, but AN Hammerhead is 0-9-18 (notice the high K).

I'd like to be able to formulate a home made 'PK booster' type, because I really do believe people have good results with these (know people who get 3lb+ per plant using AN). I don't claim that AN brand name is a magic, but I believe their ingredients can be reproduced cheaply.

For example, these products are shown to have good results:
Bud Blood




Big Bud


Overdrive

oh yeah, I forgot to mention that I am also using the big bud too and not one sign of nute burn, altho I must admit I use it at half str. Nice results. I just res changed and went to the gh nute calculator formual without thinking. I like that calcualor.

For a PK booster simply buy monopottassium phosphate. It is used in about 95% of all the complter tow ot three part formulas. It is the most expensive ingredian, but np where as expensive as buying it from some one like AN or GH etc. $5.64 va pond or a bit over $3 a pound in 50 pound bags. http://www.cropking.com/HydroponicSupplies/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=264_268&products_id=332&zenid=b28ee6ea1b71222349c7d0b38a0a2467

fatman7574 said:

For a PK booster simply buy monopottassium phosphate. It is used in about 95% of all the complter tow ot three part formulas. It is the most expensive ingredian, but np where as expensive as buying it from some one like AN or GH etc. $5.64 va pond or a bit over $3 a pound in 50 pound bags. http://www.cropking.com/HydroponicSupplies/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=264_268&products_id=332&zenid=b28ee6ea1b71222349c7d0b38a0a2467

Click to expand...

hey fatman. Thanks for the info. Is there any way to get the ppm or ratio's of Potassium Phosphate?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopotassium_phosphate

For example, a way to find out say, how much 1gram of Potassium Phosphate would equate to PPM or, N P K formula. This is just I can know how much to use, I'd like to try to replicate a 0-12-25 formula, i see the ingredients that AN is using, but not sure how to convert raw ingredient, to PPM/NPK.

I'm a bit of a chemistry noob, definitely not my strong point, thanks. I do have a digital scale.

EDIT: OK, tried to do some calculation myself

Fertilizer grade MKP contains the equivalent of 52% P2O5 and 34% K2O, and is labeled 0-52-34.

So, I take this, 1 gram of potassium_phosphate (MPK), contains .52g of P, and .34g of K?


EDIT: Think I found my page
http://www.hydro-gardens.com/fertcomp.htm

Can't find Magnesium Phosphate info



So, for Bud Blood, which is 0-12-25

52 / 12 = 4.33, so
4.33 x 25 = 108.3 (K needed)
108.3 - 34 = 74.3
74.3 / 50 = 1.48

so, i would use 1 part MPK to 1 part K2SO4 to get a 0-52-108.3

which when diluted 4.3 times, will reduce down to 0-12-25 = Bud Blood (minus a few additives)

The Big Bud crap is mainly some mono pottasium phosphate and some epson salts. Added to that are vitamins, minerals and supplements all available at the corner drug store, grocery store or a General Nutrition store. The problem is you would have to spend about $250 to buy a bottle of each. But then you would have "special supplements) that AN would sell for about $10,000. They be scammers.

The Over Drive is simple common fertilizers ans the ascorbic acid is simply Vitamic C.

The Bud Blood is simple readily vailable fertilizers.

AN the GODS OF POT FERTILIZERS are just scammers. Selling cheap shit at high prices.

For an example it would cost about $10 to make 1 gallon of 100X of big bud. Actually that is not true as you would have to actually spend about $500 to make over 60 gallons of concentrate, then you would still have a bunch of left over supplements. I think I read that it is about $180 to buy i Kilo of Dr. Hornsby's Big Bud in a powder form. That would mix up to 1 gallon of 150X concenrarte. That would cost about $15 to mix up in quanity. Wow, that is over a 1000% mark up. Kinda explains why Big Mikie is whining and trying to keep his pot grower community in line.
If you want those nalayis in formula form with weight required for sya 100X concentrates just drop me a PM.

There are to many I LOVE BIG MIKIE fans on this forum for me to be posting the recipes on line.

fatman7574 said:

The Big Bud crap is mainly some mono pottasium phosphate and some epson salts. Added to that are vitamins, minerals and supplements all available at the corner drug store, grocery store or a General Nutrition store. The problem is you would have to spend about $250 to buy a bottle of each. But then you would have "special supplements) that AN would sell for about $10,000. They be scammers.

The Over Drive is simple common fertilizers ans the ascorbic acid is simply Vitamic C.

The Bud Blood is simple readily vailable fertilizers.

AN the GODS OF POT FERTILIZERS are just scammers. Selling cheap shit at high prices.

For an example it would cost about $10 to make 1 gallon of 100X of big bud. Actually that is not true as you would have to actually spend about $500 to make over 60 gallons of concentrate, then you would still have a bunch of left over supplements. I think I read that it is about $180 to buy i Kilo of Dr. Hornsby's Big Bud in a powder form. That would mix up to 1 gallon of 150X concenrarte. That would cost about $15 to mix up in quanity. Wow, that is over a 1000% mark up. Kinda explains why Big Mikie is whining and trying to keep his pot grower community in line.
If you want those nalayis in formula form with weight required for sya 100X concentrates just drop me a PM.

There are to many I LOVE BIG MIKIE fans on this forum for me to be posting the recipes on line.

Click to expand...

haha, well, I think I just posted something very similar to one of his forumulas, just from some quick information off his website and a calculator. Does my math look ok?

Granted, AN charged 1000x markup, but I do believe they have good research scientist, so 0-12-25 may be effective to start flowering, however if I could formulate it myself would be well off also.

squarepush3r said:

hey fatman. Thanks for the info. Is there any way to get the ppm or ratio's of Potassium Phosphate?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopotassium_phosphate

For example, a way to find out say, how much 1gram of Potassium Phosphate would equate to PPM or, N P K formula. This is just I can know how much to use, I'd like to try to replicate a 0-12-25 formula, i see the ingredients that AN is using, but not sure how to convert raw ingredient, to PPM/NPK.

I'm a bit of a chemistry noob, definitely not my strong point, thanks. I do have a digital scale.

EDIT: OK, tried to do some calculation myself

Fertilizer grade MKP contains the equivalent of 52% P2O5 and 34% K2O, and is labeled 0-52-34.

So, I take this, 1 gram of potassium_phosphate (MPK), contains .52g of P, and .34g of K?


EDIT: Think I found my page
http://www.hydro-gardens.com/fertcomp.htm

Mono-Potassium Phosphate

MKP


(0-52-34)​

Potassium Sulfate

K2SO4


(0-0-50)​

Magnesium Sulfate
Click Here for Smaller Sizes

MgSO4


(9.9% Mg)​

Can't find Magnesium Phosphate info

Click to expand...

Send me a PM. What you do with the information after I give it to you is up to you.

ie the Big Bud ppm for the major nutrients is

200 ppm Phosphorus
400 ppm Potassium
70 ppm magnesium

one of these days i will ask you about all this stuff, right now i dont have time, so its still worth it to me to buy the stuff from AN.

give me about a month or so, and ill be asking lots of questions...

sherriberry said:

one of these days i will ask you about all this stuff, right now i dont have time, so its still worth it to me to buy the stuff from AN.

give me about a month or so, and ill be asking lots of questions...

Click to expand...

basically, depending on how large a volume of water you use, you could end up saving ~$650 per cycle on nut's

The RO water from a standard home sized RO system should cost as much and usually more than the fertilizer if that tells you anything.

fatman7574 said:

The Big Bud crap is mainly some mono pottasium phosphate and some epson salts. Added to that are vitamins, minerals and supplements all available at the corner drug store, grocery store or a General Nutrition store. The problem is you would have to spend about $250 to buy a bottle of each. But then you would have "special supplements) that AN would sell for about $10,000. They be scammers.

The Over Drive is simple common fertilizers ans the ascorbic acid is simply Vitamic C.

The Bud Blood is simple readily vailable fertilizers.

AN the GODS OF POT FERTILIZERS are just scammers. Selling cheap shit at high prices.

For an example it would cost about $10 to make 1 gallon of 100X of big bud. Actually that is not true as you would have to actually spend about $500 to make over 60 gallons of concentrate, then you would still have a bunch of left over supplements. I think I read that it is about $180 to buy i Kilo of Dr. Hornsby's Big Bud in a powder form. That would mix up to 1 gallon of 150X concenrarte. That would cost about $15 to mix up in quanity. Wow, that is over a 1000% mark up. Kinda explains why Big Mikie is whining and trying to keep his pot grower community in line.
If you want those nalayis in formula form with weight required for sya 100X concentrates just drop me a PM.

There are to many I LOVE BIG MIKIE fans on this forum for me to be posting the recipes on line.

Click to expand...

Just looked up all the prices RETAIL for the different amino acids used in the BIG BUD. Paying FULL RETAIL prices for all the needed pharmaceutical grade amino acids and the Fertilizers it would cost about $80 to make a gallon of 150X Big Bud. That means Fat Mikie and his boys are probably putting it out for about $20 a batch and charging $180 for the dry powder concentrate that would make 1 gallon of 150X concentrate. Considering its really just a Micro and a bloom but with a too low level of phosphorus and no calcium and nitrogen a gallon of 150X should last quite some time as it should be used in conjuction with a nutrient containing nitrogen and calcium (like GH micro).

It would cost at Full RETAIL $204 for over 2000 grams of the amino acids (it takes about 515 grams per batch so $50 per batch. That price would likely drop to about $15 per batch buying in a little larger quanitities and buy hunting for low prices. That means Big Mil kie is just ripping and roraing and selling over priced stuff as usual. Really the only thing special in the Big Bud is the amino acids. And probably at least half those used provide no benefit. They basically went down the list of commonly sold amino acids and used them all. The rest of the ingrediants are already available in the Lucas formula at a much lower cost. Plus the Lucas mix contains the missing nitrogen and calcium not provided in Big Bud.

So just buy the amino acids and make your own amino acid supplement and add it to the Lucas Formula or any quality nurtrient formula.

fatman7574 said:

Just looked up all the prices RETAIL for the different amino acids used in the BIG BUD. Paying FULL RETAIL prices for all the needed pharmaceutical grade amino acids and the Fertilizers it would cost about $80 to make a gallon of 150X Big Bud. That means Fat Mikie and his boys are probably putting it out for about $20 a batch and charging $180 for the dry powder concentrate that would make 1 gallon of 150X concentrate. Considering its really just a Micro and a bloom but with a too low level of phosphorus and no calcium and nitrogen a gallon of 150X should last quite some time as it should be used in conjuction with a nutrient containing nitrogen and calcium (like GH micro).

It would cost at Full RETAIL $204 for over 2000 grams of the amino acids (it takes about 515 grams per batch so $50 per batch. That price would likely drop to about $15 per batch buying in a little larger quanitities and buy hunting for low prices. That means Big Mil kie is just ripping and roraing and selling over priced stuff as usual. Really the only thing special in the Big Bud is the amino acids. And probably at least half those used provide no benefit. They basically went down the list of commonly sold amino acids and used them all. The rest of the ingrediants are already available in the Lucas formula at a much lower cost. Plus the Lucas mix contains the missing nitrogen and calcium not provided in Big Bud.

So just buy the amino acids and make your own amino acid supplement and add it to the Lucas Formula or any quality nurtrient formula.

Click to expand...

interesting idea.

I went over to AN's site today, and noticed they also sell a line of dry base nutrients, however they are no hyped at all and in fact extremely difficult to find anywhere (probably because price markup is less)

Their Sensi One Grow: 13-4-12


Their Sensi One Bloom: 11-8-17



Interesting that neither formula resembles Lucas.

Ha, ha, AN with a cheap product. AN is the most advertised and over priced products on the market. The Sensi formulas you posted are made for growing Sativa strains and thend to produce very tall, spindly plants with very small sex glands. I am pretty sure there are not many indoor hydroponic growers that would have am ny use for those two products. The Sensi one Grow is basically equivalent to GH one part Floramicro and two parts Floragrow. I have no data on the Sensi one Bloom. Only their tow part bloom formulas. GH sells MaxiBloom in granular form.

Most formulators start out first by designing two part formulas that work together. They do this by first deciding how much calcium to use. So they use enough caclium nitrate to get their calcium level then work from there, usually by adding mono pottasium sulfate next. From there they add their magnesium sulfate. To this they add all their micro nutrients. This is all split into tow parts so selected to allow for strong concentrations without precipitation. ie GH Floramicro and GH Florabloom. AN also does this but they also make a bunch of incomplete formulations and then you have to buy two or three different aditional suplements to get a complete formulation. An example is their DR Hornby Big Bud. It contains Potash, some Phosphorous, magnesiuns and trace elements. It then dumps in a butt load of amino acids. However it supplies no nitrates, no calcium and no sulphur and its levels of phosphorus are too low. That maens you need to try to find another nutrient formula to provide the nitrogen calcium, phosphorus and sulfur. Actually a large percentage of products are like that. A lot of hodge podged partial formulations. Rather than coming out with newcomplete two part formulas they put out a bunch of partial formulations as "boosters" and such. That is probably why so many people are using three and four of their formulations at the same time. When you look at their list of formulations, over 20, and look at the actual ingrediants you can easily see they are just in it for the money, not to provide good fair priced products. AN is out to milk the gravy train as long as its there. If pot is ever fully decriminalized AN will very likely be no where to be found the day after legalization or decriminlization. When every U.S. and reputable Canadian manafacturer can freely advertise that a line of formulations is specifically for growing POT then AN will have lost its marketing edge and it will disappear.