They seem scared to death about this bullets thing for some reason
- Thread starter deprave
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ChesusRice
Well-Known Member
So if DHS hasn’t actually bought 1.2 or 1.6 billion rounds in one year, then what have they bought, and what do they plan to buy? Well, a year ago they awarded an IDIQ contract for up to 450 million rounds of .40 S&W ammunition over the next 5 years. They plan to buy, over the next 5 years, 63 million rounds of a wide variety of ammunition ranging from 12 gauge birdshot to .38 special wadcutter to .30-06 FMJ ammo; there are even line items for .308 blanks. An IDIQ, or indefinite delivery, indefinite quantity contract, means that DHS didn’t simply buy 450 million rounds of ammunition at one time. The contract is spread out over a 5 year period, and it’s an upper limit, meaning up-to-90 million rounds of .40 S&W each year from that up-to-450 million round award. DHS could, if they wished, buy 73 million rounds the first year, 84 million the second, and so on. It depends on their needs at the time.
There is, as mentioned above, an Infowars article which refers to a “750 million round purchase,” but the PDF linked in said article is a solicitation which only contains line items which add up to 63,256,000 rounds. Confused? Here’s what DHS spokesperson Marsha Catron had to say about that:
“One solicitation under Federal Law Enforcement Training Center (FLETC) has a contract ceiling of UP TO 750 million rounds of training ammunition, a maximum quantity allowing FLETC flexibility over the next 5 years for training of over 90 federal agencies. A separate 5-year department-wide contract allows the purchase of UP TO 450 million rounds of duty ammunition for our law enforcement officers and agents. This contract is intended to be used by all DHS components, except the U.S. Coast Guard, who uses U.S. Department of Defense ammo contracts. This contract is part of the Department’s strategic sourcing efforts to combine multiple previous contracts in order to leverage the purchasing power of the entire Department to efficiently procure equipment and supplies at significantly lower costs.”
Put simply, there’s no way that FLETC is going to actually buy 750 million rounds of ammunition. Given the historical use of ammo at FLETC of approximately 15 million rounds per year or less, it’s probably going to be pretty close to the line items in the PDF linked above which, again, total 63 million rounds over a 5 year time frame.
But isn’t a total which might approach 90 or 100 million rounds per year excessive?
DHS is a massive umbrella agency, with over 100,000 armed law enforcement personnel according to a DHS spokesperson. If we divide 90 million by 100,000, that means each agent gets 900 rounds per year to shoot. That isn’t a whole lot, considering that civilians going through handgun training courses sometimes shoot twice as many rounds – in a single weekend.
Furthermore, federal agents, including those under DHS, generally use the same ammunition for duty and practice. Currently, it’s a .40 S&W jacketed hollow point made by Federal, commonly known as the HST. Most of DHS’s evil, banned-for-war, elderly-and-baby-killing hollow points end up going through paper targets and into dirt berms. Each CBP (Customs and Border Protection) agent is currently given 250 rounds per quarter, or 1000 rounds per year. While things may differ from agency to agency, that lines up fairly nicely with the above math for the 450 million round contract.
http://militarytimes.com/blogs/gearscout/2013/03/15/homeland-securitys-ammunition-purchases-should-not-worry-you/
There is, as mentioned above, an Infowars article which refers to a “750 million round purchase,” but the PDF linked in said article is a solicitation which only contains line items which add up to 63,256,000 rounds. Confused? Here’s what DHS spokesperson Marsha Catron had to say about that:
“One solicitation under Federal Law Enforcement Training Center (FLETC) has a contract ceiling of UP TO 750 million rounds of training ammunition, a maximum quantity allowing FLETC flexibility over the next 5 years for training of over 90 federal agencies. A separate 5-year department-wide contract allows the purchase of UP TO 450 million rounds of duty ammunition for our law enforcement officers and agents. This contract is intended to be used by all DHS components, except the U.S. Coast Guard, who uses U.S. Department of Defense ammo contracts. This contract is part of the Department’s strategic sourcing efforts to combine multiple previous contracts in order to leverage the purchasing power of the entire Department to efficiently procure equipment and supplies at significantly lower costs.”
Put simply, there’s no way that FLETC is going to actually buy 750 million rounds of ammunition. Given the historical use of ammo at FLETC of approximately 15 million rounds per year or less, it’s probably going to be pretty close to the line items in the PDF linked above which, again, total 63 million rounds over a 5 year time frame.
But isn’t a total which might approach 90 or 100 million rounds per year excessive?
DHS is a massive umbrella agency, with over 100,000 armed law enforcement personnel according to a DHS spokesperson. If we divide 90 million by 100,000, that means each agent gets 900 rounds per year to shoot. That isn’t a whole lot, considering that civilians going through handgun training courses sometimes shoot twice as many rounds – in a single weekend.
Furthermore, federal agents, including those under DHS, generally use the same ammunition for duty and practice. Currently, it’s a .40 S&W jacketed hollow point made by Federal, commonly known as the HST. Most of DHS’s evil, banned-for-war, elderly-and-baby-killing hollow points end up going through paper targets and into dirt berms. Each CBP (Customs and Border Protection) agent is currently given 250 rounds per quarter, or 1000 rounds per year. While things may differ from agency to agency, that lines up fairly nicely with the above math for the 450 million round contract.
http://militarytimes.com/blogs/gearscout/2013/03/15/homeland-securitys-ammunition-purchases-should-not-worry-you/
Crankyxr
Well-Known Member
Are you really referring to the movie or are you referring to the perfect time to strike?
NLXSK1
Well-Known Member
I never looked at my avatar in a sexual way. You probably need counseling if you did... Seek help...
Crankyxr
Well-Known Member
If that's the case, would you please care to explain why you chose that avatar to coincide with your location?
NLXSK1
Well-Known Member
I am sorry, is there a rule on the forum that states your location must coincide with your avatar?
Being as you signed up 6 months ago you must be the forum expert on this...
And again, your avatar simply points to the fact that you have no basis to point fingers.... It is disrespectful to everyone who reads it and completely childish... But you are a CFL grower so it is understandable...
Dr Kynes
Well-Known Member
hmm it seems you DO want to talk about flouride.
but only in the sense that you will shout one word and pretend that solves any problem, answers any question or rebutts any statement.
DHS is buying/acquiring shitloads of gear which is far beyond that used by any reasonable law enforencment agency in a free country. DHS seems to be preparing for a shift in their mandate from "Law Enforcement" to a "Security Forces" model.
do you think having federal "Security Forces" is a good idea? or do you propose that acquisition of vast amounts of ammo, armored personnel carriers, and compact Sturmgewehr type automatic weapons is consistent with "Law Enforcement" ?
are you arguing that the mainstream press is NOT covering shit up because there is nothing going on, or that they began reporting on it because there's nothing going on, or that they are now, subsequent to reporting it, making transparent claims to debunk the idea that something is goin on?
they didnt report on it (sshhhhh, nothings happening...)
then they did report it (http://www.forbes.com/sites/ralphbenko/2013/03/11/1-6-billion-rounds-of-ammo-for-homeland-security-its-time-for-a-national-conversation/)
now they claim it's all just a conspiracy theory from alex jones...(http://www.denverpost.com/nationworld/ci_22594279/homeland-security-aims-buy-1-6-billion-rounds)
which is it? a non issue, an issue of great concern, or a conspiracy theory? the mainstream press has issued all 3 claims simultaneously.
the single document you keep copy/pasting is dubious at best, or are you insinuating that the bureaucracy never lies to the senate, or that one republican senator has the inside track on the truth (or possibly the Troof) and thus on this ONE issue, he can be trusted despite his status as a Republican, and a rep from a flyover state, and thus a loon, a hillbilly or a fool?
personally the ammo buys dont bother me much, since stockpiling, and getting a deal on bulk ammo is one of my favorite things, but the transparent claims and lies are too worrying to ignore, the THOUSANDS of APC's are very worrying, and the Sturmgewehr purchases are extremely troubling.
DHS has already stretched out it's tentacles into the arena of "Security Forces", and if they make the full switch from law enforcement to brownshirts, we will all be up shit creek.
Harrekin
Well-Known Member
ChesusRice
Well-Known Member
The name of the agency was scary as hell and reminded me of something nazi germany would of thought ofDHS become the new SS?
Say it ain't so...
like the
Department of the fatherland
Winter Woman
Well-Known Member
Every once an a while I agree with and on this I do agree with you a very scary name no matter who gave it the title and no matter who keeps it there.
ChesusRice
Well-Known Member
By all means we should break it up
that way you can bitch about how much money we are wasting breaking it up
Doer
Well-Known Member
No. He just scored the win. That's that guy from the Greek footballers....Banned.
Winter Woman
Well-Known Member
Doesn't look like a rescue vehicle to me.
deprave
New Member
Winter Woman
Well-Known Member
You're right I do hate government waste.
Dr Kynes
Well-Known Member
It will be quite useful in Rescuing us from ideologically impure thoughts, or from the tyranny of dissenters.
I for one welcome our new DHS overlords.
ChesusRice
Well-Known Member
MOre Fallacious bullshit
Not surprising
The conclusion that the 2,717 Mine-Resistant Ambush Protected vehicles are for the Department of Homeland Security is false. Instead, they are part of a contract award to the US Navy and will be subsequently used by the United States Marine Corps.
Previous contract M67854-07-D-5032 can be found here and modifications to same contract can found here.
A search for M67854-07-D-5032 at the Federal Procurement Data System reveals that all contract under this number are for the United States Navy.
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/41713_Fact_Checking-_Obama_DHS_Purchases_2700_Light-Armored_Tanks
More Here.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/ssabullets.asp
So again just more stupid bullshit from winter woman(?) and other right wingnut conspiracy freaks
Not surprising
The conclusion that the 2,717 Mine-Resistant Ambush Protected vehicles are for the Department of Homeland Security is false. Instead, they are part of a contract award to the US Navy and will be subsequently used by the United States Marine Corps.
Previous contract M67854-07-D-5032 can be found here and modifications to same contract can found here.
A search for M67854-07-D-5032 at the Federal Procurement Data System reveals that all contract under this number are for the United States Navy.
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/41713_Fact_Checking-_Obama_DHS_Purchases_2700_Light-Armored_Tanks
More Here.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/ssabullets.asp
So again just more stupid bullshit from winter woman(?) and other right wingnut conspiracy freaks