GH Organics.. PH Questions

[AZherbalist420]

Running GHs General Organics "Go Box" nutes in coco coir & it says right on the box PH adjustment not necessary. What is the meaning of this and how can it be true? I find it hard to believe because when I check the PH after mixing nutes according to the feed chart its always low.. like 4.0-4.5 .. so i have been upping PH to 5.6 - 5.8 to feed. Help me out when U can! Thx

 

[Nullis]

Are you using the CaMg+? That should raise the pH of the solution a bit.

Really, though, what goes in doesn't matter so much. Check the pH of your run-off. In soil, you would add dolomite lime to your mix as it neutralizes acidity over long periods of time and provide Ca and Mg (soil microbes and the plant itself also adjust the pH in the rhizosphere). You can add dolomite to coco coir also, but the best brands of coir will already be in the 6.0-6.7 range.

The General Organics CaMg+ is "biologically catalyzed from oyster shell, dolomite lime & natural plant extracts" so essentially a liquified dolomite lime. Dolomite is calcium/magnesium carbonate whereas oyster shell is primarily calcium carbonate. Use it at recommended rates if you have not been already.

Another thing to consider is that each one-part nutrient (Bio-Thrive Grow\Bloom) contains humic acid and probably has other organic chelates as well. The Diamond Black (optional on the feeding chart) is also pure humic acid, has a pH itself of 10 and will make the solution very dark and thus difficult to get an accurate pH reading with the liquid drops. Humic\fulvic acids and other organic chelates help plant roots take up nutrients that would be otherwise difficult to assimilate.

 

[somebody1701]

It is 100% true. Do not mess with the PH. Organic acids are weak and there's no need to check the PH. I'm on my third organic coco grow and my plants are thriving. I just packed my PH pen, drops, and PPM meter away. I haven't used them in a long time.

One thing I've found with GO is that you may need to use two tsp of the CalMag if you are using RO water to prevent deficiencies. For late veg and first two weeks of flower, I'm currently using:

3 tsp Grow
2 tsp CalMag
2 tsp Marine
2 tsp Root
1 tsp Kelp

per gallon of RO water.

For very young plants, I use Diamond Black and smaller amounts of the above.

I followed the label strictly on my first grow and got calmag deficiency. I started adding a 1/4 tsp of epsom and still had some deficiency problems. Going to 2 tsp of the GO CalMag seems to have fixed it. Even with the deficiencies, I had great results.

 

[SFguy]

im using the GO line too never adjusted ph, always had great results.

@ nullis thats a great AND informative post. +REP

 

[AZherbalist420]

Are you using the CaMg+? That should raise the pH of the solution a bit.

Really, though, what goes in doesn't matter so much. Check the pH of your run-off. In soil, you would add dolomite lime to your mix as it neutralizes acidity over long periods of time and provide Ca and Mg (soil microbes and the plant itself also adjust the pH in the rhizosphere). You can add dolomite to coco coir also, but the best brands of coir will already be in the 6.0-6.7 range.

The General Organics CaMg+ is "biologically catalyzed from oyster shell, dolomite lime & natural plant extracts" so essentially a liquified dolomite lime. Dolomite is calcium/magnesium carbonate whereas oyster shell is primarily calcium carbonate. Use it at recommended rates if you have not been already.

Another thing to consider is that each one-part nutrient (Bio-Thrive Grow\Bloom) contains humic acid and probably has other organic chelates as well. The Diamond Black (optional on the feeding chart) is also pure humic acid, has a pH itself of 10 and will make the solution very dark and thus difficult to get an accurate pH reading with the liquid drops. Humic\fulvic acids and other organic chelates help plant roots take up nutrients that would be otherwise difficult to assimilate.

Thx alot for ur reply..yes I am folowing feeding chart. I use RO so yea I always use CaMg but have been running it low (1tsp/gal) because the PPMs seem to run high round 200ppm at 1tsp/gal.. should I worry bout that? I have yet to see feeding chart showing PPM reccomendations so I am just tryin to feel out each strain on my own... any suggestions there?

 

[AZherbalist420]

Thx SFguy & somebody1701 who also replied with info... Big^'s

Yea initially I was adjusting PH. Then I was at a grow expo and spoke with GH Rep who insisted I didn't need to worry. I was already late into flowereing & stopped worrying about it. My results were fine and I was pleased. Then my next attempt I started out not adjusting & around week 4 or 5 rite when everything was looking promising everything suddenly went downhill. Leaves yellowed & quickly browned. Curled every which way making it hard for a newbie like me to diagnose problem. They didn't seem to produce much more after that. They pretty much stunted. My secend attempt ended up worse than the first which to me was unacceptable, only harvesting 1/2 of what first attempt reaped even losing a plant. I wasn't sure if it was the PH but had to wonder. Now i have been adjusting but have read that its counter productive. I also could have had other issues and just wanna blame PH. Like I said I am new and know I am probably making some mistakes. An experienced grower from Holland I spoke with said my problem could have been poor circulation due to the fact that during the extremely hot summer here it requires house to be sealed up when running AC. This was judging from a leaf I showed him on a webcam, but I had already pulled that plant out of flower room a few days before because it had started to shrivel up. So by then it was pretty bad. But it made sense because shortly before that was when it got really hot here and everything was sealed up cuz AC running. He said I needed a form of fresh air and that basically the air they had was just being recycled and plants were suffering from it.

Thx again all. I am always looking to maximize potential so thats why I am trying to sort everything out.. Everyones info is greatly appreciated!!

 

[AZherbalist420]

It is 100% true. Do not mess with the PH. Organic acids are weak and there's no need to check the PH. I'm on my third organic coco grow and my plants are thriving. I just packed my PH pen, drops, and PPM meter away. I haven't used them in a long time.

One thing I've found with GO is that you may need to use two tsp of the CalMag if you are using RO water to prevent deficiencies. For late veg and first two weeks of flower, I'm currently using:

3 tsp Grow
2 tsp CalMag
2 tsp Marine
2 tsp Root
1 tsp Kelp

per gallon of RO water.

For very young plants, I use Diamond Black and smaller amounts of the above.

I followed the label strictly on my first grow and got calmag deficiency. I started adding a 1/4 tsp of epsom and still had some deficiency problems. Going to 2 tsp of the GO CalMag seems to have fixed it. Even with the deficiencies, I had great results.

Ok. thx again for reply. Was wondering whereabout u run em mid-late flower?

 

[whitey78]

Mid to late flower you want to be winding down, not going higher..... I'd run the suggested amounts either from the bottles or from others here until 10-12 days before your planned finish...... After that I'd run water only or water and a sweetener/molasses.

The best results I got with general organics was with amended fox farms ocean forest/happy frog soil mixed bag for bag, 6-8 cups of earth worm castings per bag, 1 tbs of dolomite lime per gal of soil (I fill 5 gallon buckets as I am mixing to get the # of gallons....), 1 tbs of alfalfa meal per gal of soil, 1 tbs of kelp meal per gal of soil, 1 tbs of soft rock phosphate per gal of soil....I forgot what else I added but some variety is good..... If I was to do it again I'd probably skip the vegan ideals and add some fish meal maybe 1/2 tbs per gal of soil and probably the same of some blood meal.....then I'd add 10-15% of chunky perlite or rice hulls if possible.....still havent found them but I'd use them before perlite if I could....... On top of that I was using aact/compost teas, which I think is what made the real difference..... I used roughly the same soil mix and ran just GO only and the same strains that came out all sorts of colored, heavy resin etc.... didnt turn out the same, so the teas made the difference in my opinion.... I would alternate feedings of GO with aact/teas, more like go/go/acct/water I think..... On both runs I ran the bio marine during veg and bloom in addition to the grow and bloom formula's and only used the diamond black sporadically.... Once I started the teas I let up on the bio weed and bio root as they had similar products to what I was adding into my teas so I didnt want to overdo it but the run that got the teas was much better and I did that run first, so it cant be said that I just got better with the same strains.....

Take a look at the veganics with matt rize thread up top of this organics thread, anything in that thread can be used basically in conjunction with the GO line, rize just runs the canna bio line, both GO and canna bio are veganic..... You will get a decent med using just the general organics but you will not get the yield and using more and more of it wont make the difference..... Using a well amended soil will help yield and using the same soil in conjunction with teas and GO will get you some top shelf shit along with the yield as long as you are doing everything else like pot size and environment right.... Good luck.....