But what about the roads? Common argument against Libertarian/Anarchy Debunked.

[Dr Kynes]

Somalia

Just saying

just sayin somalia is SAYING NOTHING

somalia is a war zone, and in anarchy (that "anarchists" wont admit exists), but this has nothing to do with depraves fantasyland of anarcho-syndicalist-neo-marxist-semi-utopean-minarchst-volunteerism-stateless state

it tracks even less than claiming private road builders would use their non-existent sovereign powers to exercise eminent domain over property, but shouting somalia doesnt make a wrong statement any wronger nor does it illuminate the errors ion that statement.

somali warlords arent using eminent domain to seize property, they are using main force and violence.

or are you really truly daft?

 

[medicineman]

I say we give them a couple of states, (libertarians), say Georgia and Alabama. Put guarded gates at state lines and not allow them to go outside their state/country. Let them experience no government for a few years until most of them are killed off by feuds, etc. But first, just to be fair, we must demolish all former state projects, roads, electric grids, water mains and sewage and trash collection, give them a bare grounds scenario, just like they like it. Within a few short months or weeks, most of the money/control would be in the hands of the wealthiest few with their goon squad protectors and liberty would be a commodity to be bought and sold. Free market my ass.

 

[Canna Sylvan]

I say we give them a couple of states, (libertarians), say Georgia and Alabama. Put guarded gates at state lines and not allow them to go outside their state/country. Let them experience no government for a few years until most of them are killed off by feuds, etc. But first, just to be fair, we must demolish all former state projects, roads, electric grids, water mains and sewage and trash collection, give them a bare grounds scenario, just like they like it. Within a few short months or weeks, most of the money/control would be in the hands of the wealthiest few with their goon squad protectors and liberty would be a commodity to be bought and sold. Free market my ass.

Let's take an Orca that has been bred and lived in captivity for 10 years. Now let's set it free with the first pod we find. Watch it die within a few weeks. That must mean Orcas are meant to live in a small aquarium tank getting fed fish from humans.

I don't believe you're a real indian. Your people know all about how nature works. You had no government for several millenia.The only tribe to attempt government you all wiped out. You been on the government teet so long you forgot your heritage?

 

[OGEvilgenius]

The only argument I ever need to go against 'anarchy' is

Somalia

Now there is a pristine example of what small goverment can do for you

The inuit. Worked well for a very long time. It got screwed up by outside forces. Kind of like how Somalia is constantly fucked over by outside sources. IE: Private armies guarding the extremely valuable mines that exist in that country. Somalia is a rather poor example to use in a discussion like this given all the outside influences from parties that have established corrupt governments working within the countries borders.

 

[OGEvilgenius]

That is Awesome

You get to murder one person and not have to go to prison
Sign me up now

The reasoning was that it's difficult to determine the reasons for it happening and they may have been justified. Also it was a small society dependent on it's people, all of them. Murder was not a big problem in their society, but it happened/s. They did extremely well in an area of the world most people viewed as uninhabitable for a long time. They weren't the only society that functioned like this, and did so rather successfully for a long time.

 

[medicineman]

Let's take an Orca that has been bred and lived in captivity for 10 years. Now let's set it free with the first pod we find. Watch it die within a few weeks. That must mean Orcas are meant to live in a small aquarium tank getting fed fish from humans.

I don't believe you're a real indian. Your people know all about how nature works. You had no government for several millenia.The only tribe to attempt government you all wiped out. You been on the government teet so long you forgot your heritage?

Really, Well I really don't care what you believe. This is modern America and libertarianism has no place in it. What the indian nations had is nothing to compare with libertarianism. We believed in real things that are now looked upon with scorn and disbelief. They worked then before the scourge of the white devils, but hey, I don't hold a grudge. I learned to adapt. Actually it was my forbearers that learned to adapt. I was born into white society. I'd still like to see you all mouth libertarians try and build your kind of society without any outside help, yeah right.

 

[Canna Sylvan]

Ok, now I know you're just stupid.

Do all governments "work?" Didn't it take generations? We could build another United States, Canada or other government from scratch. But we already have those blue prints.

Show me a libertarian anarchist blue print that works. Just because none exists, doesn't mean it won't. Unless you live in that society, you can't say. Your fantasy world where no corruption with government doesn't exist and can't.

If we went back in time to some of the earliest peoples, such as those in Sumeria, who would dream up the US constitution. No one would, because it didn't happen until over 3,000 years later. If you told a Sumerian about how our government workedm that person would laugh at you saying how crazy you are and that sort of thing has no place.

Where did you get libertarianism means without other's help? I think you're making it up. Libertarianism is all about personal liberty. Whatever bullshit you're saying ain't it.

You don't care what I believe in? Good, I don't give a fuck what you do either. But you have no right to stop me if I don't take from you. That's libertarianism. Leave my way of life alone, I will do the same. But you won't give me the same respect. You try to take from me by force, for others. Yet you're too much of a coward to steal from me yourself. You use the government. Then say it's fair.

Your government you advocate for doesn't allow me to do my own medicine. I'm supposed to bend over and take Big Pharma pills. If I refuse and grow my own weed, I risk serious jail time or possible death when I get raided. That's not my idea of fair.

You can't praise the good then complain about the bad governments do. It's all or nothing. Be a man and accept everything.government does. Otherwise you're a selfish coward. Even if you managed to get rid of all the bad you perceive in government, it's what you want. That's good to get what you want, but not at the expense of others. Because thosr others will fight you tooth and nail, like I do against your version of Robin Hood theft. The cycle just repeats. That's what libertarianism attempts to stop. Which no government can ever achieve. The only ones who can are individuals. If they so desire, they can work together, for whatever reason they choose, not what they're forced to accept.
Liberarians are for all people. Why do you hate people so much? Especially individuals who wish to live their lives in peace? Why do you want peaceful people, like me, harassed by a vindictive corrupt government? When all I want to do is help others, my family, friends and myself. What you wish is for my life to get taken away? Why? What did I do to you? I'm not wishing anyone to do bad against you. I'm not advocating people get rounded up from their life and hoping they can't live on nothing. That's only cruel you.

 

[Dr Kynes]

The inuit. Worked well for a very long time. It got screwed up by outside forces. Kind of like how Somalia is constantly fucked over by outside sources. IE: Private armies guarding the extremely valuable mines that exist in that country. Somalia is a rather poor example to use in a discussion like this given all the outside influences from parties that have established corrupt governments working within the countries borders.

yore thinking cote de ivorie, rhodesia, the congo and other west african nations somalia has no particular valuable resources which is why the world's governments are reluctant to act. even in those african nations torn apart by war, the resource gathering is uninterrupted, oil diamonds gold and other valuable commodities continue to flow out of all sides in their conflicts. if the flow of resources was restricted, the restrictor would be immediately eliminated. somalia is fucked because it has nothing to bargain with, and no strategic importance. it's not fair, its not good, but you know what, it's not america's problem. let the french and the germans handle this one for a change.

example: kosovo had numerous mines and other geologic wealth. the yugoslavians intended to mine it themselves and use it as a national resource. the albanians promised mining contracts to a few assholes, and bill clinton started bombing the yugoslavians till the lost their land to the albanian invaders who were on the UN terrorist list. yes. bill clinton bombed the yugoslavians into submission, took the kosovo valley and gave it to the albanians in exchange for mining rights for western companies.

 

[ChesusRice]

Fuck Kosovo
We had some of those refugees working where I was
On 9/12 they were cheering the world trade center bombing

And you know what

Those fucking eurotrash motherfuckers are still here.

 

[Mr Neutron]

What if we let companies run OSHA or the EPA?

Capital idea. You're starting to catch on. As private entities, they would be liable for their actions. As private entities, they have a vested interest in doing a satisfactory job. As private entities, they are paying taxes rather than wasting taxpayer's dollars.

 

[Mr Neutron]

The only argument I ever need to go against 'anarchy' is

Somalia

Now there is a pristine example of what small goverment can do for you

... and North Korea gives the statists a hard on...

 

[medicineman]

Ok, now I know you're just stupid.

Do all governments "work?" Didn't it take generations? We could build another United States, Canada or other government from scratch. But we already have those blue prints.

Show me a libertarian anarchist blue print that works. Just because none exists, doesn't mean it won't. Unless you live in that society, you can't say. Your fantasy world where no corruption with government doesn't exist and can't.

If we went back in time to some of the earliest peoples, such as those in Sumeria, who would dream up the US constitution. No one would, because it didn't happen until over 3,000 years later. If you told a Sumerian about how our government workedm that person would laugh at you saying how crazy you are and that sort of thing has no place.

Where did you get libertarianism means without other's help? I think you're making it up. Libertarianism is all about personal liberty. Whatever bullshit you're saying ain't it.

You don't care what I believe in? Good, I don't give a fuck what you do either. But you have no right to stop me if I don't take from you. That's libertarianism. Leave my way of life alone, I will do the same. But you won't give me the same respect. You try to take from me by force, for others. Yet you're too much of a coward to steal from me yourself. You use the government. Then say it's fair.

Your government you advocate for doesn't allow me to do my own medicine. I'm supposed to bend over and take Big Pharma pills. If I refuse and grow my own weed, I risk serious jail time or possible death when I get raided. That's not my idea of fair.

You can't praise the good then complain about the bad governments do. It's all or nothing. Be a man and accept everything.government does. Otherwise you're a selfish coward. Even if you managed to get rid of all the bad you perceive in government, it's what you want. That's good to get what you want, but not at the expense of others. Because thosr others will fight you tooth and nail, like I do against your version of Robin Hood theft. The cycle just repeats. That's what libertarianism attempts to stop. Which no government can ever achieve. The only ones who can are individuals. If they so desire, they can work together, for whatever reason they choose, not what they're forced to accept.
Liberarians are for all people. Why do you hate people so much? Especially individuals who wish to live their lives in peace? Why do you want peaceful people, like me, harassed by a vindictive corrupt government? When all I want to do is help others, my family, friends and myself. What you wish is for my life to get taken away? Why? What did I do to you? I'm not wishing anyone to do bad against you. I'm not advocating people get rounded up from their life and hoping they can't live on nothing. That's only cruel you.

B.S..........................

 

[londonfog]

Capital idea. You're starting to catch on. As private entities, they would be liable for their actions. As private entities, they have a vested interest in doing a satisfactory job. As private entities, they are paying taxes rather than wasting taxpayer's dollars.

how would they turn a profit ???private not turning a profit....will this be a charity private entities?

 

[deprave]

how would they turn a profit ???private not turning a profit....will this be a charity private entities?

by providing excellent service and prices which out do their competitors. There is a large market for clean water, something a lot of people care about. Everything would be the same as it is now only privatized.

I.E.

I am drinking water certified by Fosters Pure, If your water isn't certified by Fosters than no thanks, I like my water to contain X and not Y, I know that Fosters reputation is outstanding and they provide accurate information on the labels which if informative. Unlike those other water purification certification companies who don't live up to a guarantee or provide good data.

Later that night on EYE WITNESS 7 NEWS

Fosters is accused of skewing test results....

Well fuck fosters I am only drinking Rams certified water from now on...

Fosters goes out of business....

 

[Dr Kynes]

Fuck Kosovo
We had some of those refugees working where I was
On 9/12 they were cheering the world trade center bombing

And you know what

Those fucking eurotrash motherfuckers are still here.

you had kosovoian refugees? cheering for the hijackers? you had albanian members of the KLA's extended network.

the "Kosovo liberation Army" (international terrorist group) they snuck into kosovo,, from albania and began to flood the area with their people while they tried to drive out the serbians. those dicks were NOT from the nation of yugoslavia, or serbia, they were NOT from the kosovo valley any more than the mexicans hanging around outside your home depot are from kansas. they were the illegal immigrants who the serbs were "ethnically cleansing" by kicking them out of their country.

what you saw was albanian mohammedans cheering the victory of their brothers in the faith. theres nothing a KLA member likes better than seein a western power lose to some fellow moslem terrorists.

the serbs had almost 60 years of communist rule to simmer in the pot with those dicks, when they had their chance at freedom, getting the albanian turds out of their punchbowl was job one! the albanian government sponsoered KLA used rape murder and kidnapoping to drive serbs out of kosovo, once the sebs had a nation of their own after the disintegration of yugoslavia, they kicked back at the albanian menace. unfortunately for the serbs they hadnt fully understood the liberal mind. In the mind of the leftist liberal, anything which is foreign and different is automatically good, based on it's "diversity" from what is normal in their little world, and automatically preferable to that which is western,, modern, civilized and especially christian.
Some contrasts for you:

some dickhead yodeling from a minaret 5 times a day = Ethnic diversity!!! church bells on sunday morning = infringement of my civil rights!!!
boiled goat meat = good!! eating the meat of horses = evil wicked cruelty just short of cannabalism!!
primitive ugly wood carvings = art!! michelangelo's pieta = horrible ugly christian indoctrination!
mariachi music at 3 am = celebrating their beautiful culture! jehovahs witnesses knocking on your door at 10 am on a saturday = harassment!!

 

[Samwell Seed Well]

ok . . .you guys realize that its not hard to make a road . . .it just takes a while, and although it was sarcastic in my first post , i think its stupid to assume that only the government can build roads

with the way today is with satellites and technology just about anyone can do anything including build roads freeways , bridges, and so on and ya they would need help, a voluntary society could do it, but we can do it now if people actually supported it, with 13%(if your lucky) tax on your income that's a lot that through numbers a community could rise for whatever that they choose, just like we do now when we raise taxes or lower then its risk vs reward

if you dont understand how to build a road there is no way you could understand how easy or hard it is, the hardness comes from competency, so as long as the nay sayers continue to think without knowing and let the tradesmen do there jobs anything is possible

 

[deprave]

ok . . .you guys realize that its not hard to make a road . . .it just takes a while, and although it was sarcastic in my first post , i think its stupid to assume that only the government can build roads

with the way today is with satellites and technology just about anyone can do anything including build roads freeways , bridges, and so on and ya they would need help, a voluntary society could do it, but we can do it now if people actually supported it, with 13%(if your lucky) tax on your income that's a lot that through numbers a community could rise for whatever that they choose, just liek we do now when we raise taxes or lower then its risk vs reward

if you dont understand how to build a road there is no way you could understand how easy or hard it is, the hardness comes from competency, so as long as the nay sayers continue to think without knowing and let the tradesmen do there jobs anything is possible

Yea we could do a lot more than build roads

The government is inefficient, this is something Libertarians and Anarchist don't argue over. The argument is just how, why, and when is this true and when is it less efficient then other means? Rothbard concludes government is always ineffecient when it impedes on our naturual rights, Rand concludes it is only efficient for military, police, and basic services. Spooner's Voluntarism or Anarcho-Capitilism believes that the government is always inefficient (or less efficient) under all circumstances. Additionally voluntarism believe that use of coercive force or violence is never justified except under self defense, so they think that government is no exception to this rule (non-aggression principle), they argue that government itself is a violent(uses agression and force) and has a monopoly on power and that this violates this principle. (they argue that monopolies are violent as well because they use aggressive force)

 

[Canna Sylvan]

B.S..........................

Seriously? It was that hard to understand?

 

[BA142]

deprave i know you love the matrix, but please come out of it. the united states would suffer greatly. total 180. thats the truth. end of story. thread closed.

Yeah, because regular Democrat/Republican government really works great!

 

[londonfog]

by providing excellent service and prices which out do their competitors. There is a large market for clean water, something a lot of people care about. Everything would be the same as it is now only privatized.

I.E.

I am drinking water certified by Fosters Pure, If your water isn't certified by Fosters than no thanks, I like my water to contain X and not Y, I know that Fosters reputation is outstanding and they provide accurate information on the labels which if informative. Unlike those other water purification certification companies who don't live up to a guarantee or provide good data.

Later that night on EYE WITNESS 7 NEWS

Fosters is accused of skewing test results....

Well fuck fosters I am only drinking Rams certified water from now on...

Fosters goes out of business....

I'm confused which company will be testing Foster Pure to assure that X does equal Y....And again which company will be testing Rams certified water to assure that X does equal Y ( and who the fuck certified them )....