Is organic ph down some kind of joke for noobs

U

userwords

Member
Im beginning to think that full organic aeropony and hydropony is impossible because there is no way to adjust ph organically (without regular ph up and down).
My findings are:

Vinegar: push down ph for ONLY 24 hours, and leaves an sticky trail behind.
Baking soda: pushes it up and is said to kill plants in the end. (not tested)
Lemon: Probably not much better than vinegar unless somebody tells it works on the long term. (Not tested)

Using organic nutrients in massive quantities to adjust ph: I used ghe certified in europe as organic (some organic nutes recognize to use organic materials only in part which is contradictory and destroys the organic purpose) Biosevia bloom and biosevia grow. IT WORKED
after several days measuring ph in non aireated water, biosevia could keep a ph of 6.2 with 2800ppm pretty high but usable.

BUT as i started aireating the water in the hydroponic system PH SKYROCKETED to 8.5

So AIREATING WATER SKYROCKET PH (some ppl said this was bs this shows they just didnt tried it themselves) and stays this high for days with no changes.


Im want to keep it full organic but at this point i feel like this is just impossible in hydroponics and aeroponics (soil buffers on its own and rarely need any adjustment).

Would you please tell me about this before i ran mad (seriously im like a mad scienntist with my ec and ph metters and a table full of dark water bottles with different ppm nutrients :shock:) Is this just a joke for noobs.:-|
 
Izoc666

Izoc666

Well-Known Member
well i know i dont have any exprenice with hydro stuff...but i read all the general hydroponic, i was planning to buy one in the future...i think ph is very important to the hydro for cannabis after all the cannabis is high maintance than most of plants. its good ideal for use ph and ec if you re feeding those plant heavy fertilizers and push them to the max so they can grow real fast and healthy as possible as they can handle before salt or toxic buildups...that can cause alter pH and can lock some certain nutrients. thats all i know...but im pretty sure someone with expreince and knowledge of hydro system will answer your question soon or best to research on some books for hydroponics only...it will give you some insight :)
 
U

userwords

Member
Hiya the issue is that ive found lot of threads in many forums from ppl asking exactly the same:

Is there any way to adjust ph organically in hydroponic and aeroponic

And they get all the same replies, like vinegar, lemon, earth juice, bla bla bla

There is not some kind of comunity agreement on how to adjust ph with organic, and some of the proposed methods just dont work, or even damage your plants.
 
U

userwords

Member
Dont let me down, dont be cruel with my stupid and contradictory dream :)

Yep in fact, in europe, you cannot get organic certification unless using soil, so you are right

On the PVC part i try to find which material is a system made of before buying it, so i dont buy PVC which is dangerous and should be banned.

But at least, pushing away those ph up and down i not only get more natural plants, i also stay away from using something that scares my ass hard. I really dont want to have phosphoric, nitric, and whatever acid beast in my house, sincerely. That purpose is enough reason for me to look for alternative organic way to adjust ph. And the idea of eating a tomato made using that is not nice for me also.
 
RawBudzski

RawBudzski

Well-Known Member
I would not sweat it unless you grow two plants, one using Chemical PH adjuster and another using organic.. that may be the only way to convince yourself that it has no ill effects on your plants or your body.
 
Nullis

Nullis

Moderator
RawBudzski said:
If your trying to go 100% ORGANIC, and not even shake that premise for PH DOWN OR UP.. DONT USE HYDRO then,, THE PVC PIPE IS NOT ORGANIC IS IT?! THE PLASTIC RES IS NOT ORGANIC! If you wanna go organic use soil my dude, Hydro 100% organic is dumb imo.
Click to expand...
You don't think that's just a tad pretentious?

What do you want people to tell you, userwords? Earth Juice makes an all natural pH Up/Down for hydro... the company that makes Earth Juice products is Hydro-Organics. Organic hydro is essentially what they're all about (pretty sure they aren't dumb, either). The issue here is what are you protecting from synthetic pH Up or any other chemical for that matter. Most people just aren't aware that it isn't so directly about the plant. Organics in its strictest sense is really about once living (organic matter) and living organisms (primarily microbes). It isn't that all chemicals or synthetics are pointedly evil, it is that many which are used as fertilizer decimate the natural systems in place that ensure nutrient availability and lasting plant health.

Take synthetic pH Up which is commonly potassium hydroxide. The problem isn't so much that it being synthetic makes it bad, it's the fact that potassium hydroxide is essentially soap and has implications for microbes (lessening microbial activity). In hydro-organics you want your microbes alive and well so that they can help take care of the plants needs for you and lessen the amount of fertilizer required.
 
U

userwords

Member
Thx for clarify, so i understand better what the reason behind organic grow is. I didnt now earth juice was a single brand product, i thought it was a kind of product sold by many brands, and that some made it not full organic. Is that what you use, which would be the best to pair with biosevia.
 
NoGutsGrower

NoGutsGrower

Well-Known Member
userwords said:
Dont let me down, dont be cruel with my stupid and contradictory dream :)

Yep in fact, in europe, you cannot get organic certification unless using soil, so you are right

On the PVC part i try to find which material is a system made of before buying it, so i dont buy PVC which is dangerous and should be banned.

But at least, pushing away those ph up and down i not only get more natural plants, i also stay away from using something that scares my ass hard. I really dont want to have phosphoric, nitric, and whatever acid beast in my house, sincerely. That purpose is enough reason for me to look for alternative organic way to adjust ph. And the idea of eating a tomato made using that is not nice for me also.
Click to expand...
I'm sure you've eaten food grown with a lot worse!
 
Matt Rize

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
"organic" has several meanings. you can buy food grade citric acid from GNC, as pH down. But organic to me means natural soil growing. the ONLY hydro organic that I count is aquaponics. aero-organic is still a contradiction. Using pH adjusters is not bad or against organics imo. Plants exude citric and nitric acids from their roots to adjust soil pH, these are the same molecules used in pH down products. earth juice makes a quality natural pH down. Stay away from liquids like GH pH products, anything liquid in a bottle is a rip off.
 
withoutAchance

withoutAchance

Active Member
Izoc666 said:
well i know i dont have any exprenice with hydro stuff...but i read all the general hydroponic, i was planning to buy one in the future...i think ph is very important to the hydro for cannabis after all the cannabis is high maintance than most of plants. its good ideal for use ph and ec if you re feeding those plant heavy fertilizers and push them to the max so they can grow real fast and healthy as possible as they can handle before salt or toxic buildups...that can cause alter pH and can lock some certain nutrients. thats all i know...but im pretty sure someone with expreince and knowledge of hydro system will answer your question soon or best to research on some books for hydroponics only...it will give you some insight :)
Click to expand...
Really hope.all of ur post went this useless.
 
withoutAchance

withoutAchance

Active Member
Lemons are ur best bet growimg is work that's way everyone doesn't do it especially organically .not back breaking work but consant and blessed keep up with the lemons and ull be fine.
 
UltramegaMJ

UltramegaMJ

Member
I was under the impression that if you are using organics, microbes are responsible for nutrient uptake. Therefore pH has little effect on "locking nutes". I'm definitely not a pro, but my hydro vegan run I am doing now seems to be thriving, and I don't do shit to it but added water. The pH is definitely out of the ideal range for chemical uptake.
 
Matt Rize

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
UltramegaMJ said:
I was under the impression that if you are using organics, microbes are responsible for nutrient uptake. Therefore pH has little effect on "locking nutes". I'm definitely not a pro, but my hydro vegan run I am doing now seems to be thriving, and I don't do shit to it but added water. The pH is definitely out of the ideal range for chemical uptake.
Click to expand...
vegan hydro ey? tell me more...
 
C

chasmtz

Active Member
Izoc666 said:
well i know i dont have any exprenice with hydro stuff...but i read all the general hydroponic, i was planning to buy one in the future...i think ph is very important to the hydro for cannabis after all the cannabis is high maintance than most of plants. its good ideal for use ph and ec if you re feeding those plant heavy fertilizers and push them to the max so they can grow real fast and healthy as possible as they can handle before salt or toxic buildups...that can cause alter pH and can lock some certain nutrients. thats all i know...but im pretty sure someone with expreince and knowledge of hydro system will answer your question soon or best to research on some books for hydroponics only...it will give you some insight :)
Click to expand...
high maintenance? you must be high
 
UltramegaMJ

UltramegaMJ

Member
Matt Rize said:
vegan hydro ey? tell me more...
Click to expand...
Yeah, the link to my grow is in my signature. I found there to be so much negative opinions about hydro regarding quality. I have a feeling that, to a large extent, is true only because historically, dealers have grown with hydro trying to aqua-bang as much nutes and water in their plants as they can. I wanted to buck that and try to grow a little different. I had read pretty good things about the General Hydroponics BioThrive line, and since it is vegan, it hasn't got shit in it, which I am a fan of.

It's kicking ass in veg, but we will see how bloom goes. It's so damn easy though. I forget I am growing sometimes.
 
M

ManusDei

Member
Hi, first post, long time lurker here.

I just wanted to clarify this a bit. Potassium Hydroxide or KOH is NOT synthetic. And, it is NOT SOAP. It is used to make liquid soap, but, it is definitely not even similar to soap in raw form. You can make KOH at home. It is made from wood ash and water. I'm not going to go into it but a quick google search will explain the process.

As for it's effect on microbes, in pure form it has a pH of 14, if my memory serves me right, so it would kill anything. But when using it as a pH-up, you're only adding enough to modify your h20, and as long as that's in a tolerable range it's harmless.

So, if you consider using wood ash to modify your soil's pH a natural remedy then KOH is essentially the same thing just more expensive, yet cleaner.



Nullis said:
Take synthetic pH Up which is commonly potassium hydroxide. The problem isn't so much that it being synthetic makes it bad, it's the fact that potassium hydroxide is essentially soap and has implications for microbes (lessening microbial activity). In hydro-organics you want your microbes alive and well so that they can help take care of the plants needs for you and lessen the amount of fertilizer required.
Click to expand...
 
cannn

cannn

Well-Known Member
RawBudzski said:
If your trying to go 100% ORGANIC, and not even shake that premise for PH DOWN OR UP.. DONT USE HYDRO then,, THE PVC PIPE IS NOT ORGANIC IS IT?! THE PLASTIC RES IS NOT ORGANIC! If you wanna go organic use soil my dude, Hydro 100% organic is dumb imo.
Click to expand...
Im sorry but this is like saying you cant garden organic in soil if you use a plastic pot. Know im 5 years late on this comment but just cause you havent managed organic hydro doesnt make it impossible. Nothing is dumb about trying to get better product with less overall work.
 
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