S&P threatens downgrade

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Really, Nixon is responsible for Social Security, Welfare, endless social programs and the massive growing of the government and the obstruction of this country to utilize it's own natural resources? Well, shit I guess they didn't have that revised history book ready at the time I was in school.
social security has nothing to do with the debt and deficit.

welfare and social programs are nearly insignificant.

two wars, an unpaid for prescription drug plan, and tax cuts that should have expired by now add the largest chunk to the debt.

throw in a full blown recession and you get another huge chunk.

so you're right, it wasn't nixon.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Yeah yeah and when you would have been paying more taxes then you would have been bitching about that too.

Also we need to have our clock cleaned so all the stupid people out there can understand the consequences of being stupid, don't touch that it is hot................ Why did I get burned? LOL.......
i don't own a corporate jet, so i would not have seen my taxes go up.

do you go out of your way to not understand things, or does it just come naturally?
 

sen.c

Active Member
I don't own a corporate jet either, but I will tell you this taxing the rich is not the answer. Clearly you don't understand shit my friend. Also Social Security has a part in our debt, when the program was set up it was ment to be just that but just like all things in Washington it turned into another grab bag for politicians to dip into to fund usless government programs. I always here people say "we will never have Social Security when it comes our turn." You know what they are probably right because as long as they can grab it the government will wether they can pay it back or not. It is too easy for them to blame it on a market loss as an investment or one of the many other cover ups they have at hand.

Welfare and other social programs are a drag on our economy as well, really are you fucking crazy or are you just fighting for you false sense of entitlement?

I bet illegal immagration isn't a drag on our economy either is it.

do you go out of your way to not understand things, or does it just come naturally?
No, just some people are much deeper thinkers and can see things for what they really are and not just believe what they are told and take it as fact.

In closing, I never seen a poor man create jobs so your argument about taxing the rich is stupid, and ill informed. You go ahead and tax the rich man and see if he doesn't put a freeze on hiring and a host of other things that contribute to this countrys well being. The government can not run anything effectively, it has been proven. Private business is the life blood of this country, if you don't understand that than I am sorry.
 

redivider

Well-Known Member
I heard an interesting stat yesterday, if you confiscated all the assets, not just income but ALL the assets of every family/individual making over 1 million dollars a year in the United States, it would be around 800 billion dollars. Barely enough to cut the deficit in half FOR ONE YEAR. How the Fuck is letting tax breaks expire going to reduce a deficit that is about to be $17 trillion?

You're fuzzy liberal math doesn't add up. The other thing you always conveniently forget to mention, is revenue is still at ALL TIME HIGHS. What is it these years... $2.2 trillion? Around 10 years ago, our budget was $1.8 trillion, we have PLENTY of revenue...we need to reduce the budget down to 1999 levels and start to lower our debt.

And that agenda you say the Republicans are trying to implement is simply trying to slow down the lunacy of the Progressive agenda, you know, the one that is bankrupting our country with bloated government and failing social ponzi schemes that aren't even providing the benefits they were originally supposed to. But they have become ravenous, debt incurring, money gobblers... and encourage people to be lazy, unmotivated and give control of their lives over to the nanny state.

But THAT was really their purpose all along. Well done you.
effective tax rates have never been lower all across the board for the past 10 years than they have ever been. no matter how much you say otherwise, it doesn't change FACT. YOU ARE ENTITLED TO YOUR OWN OPINION. NOT YOUR OWN FACTS MY FRIEND....

Barack Obama passed the single biggest tax cut in the nation's history.

you sir, are wrong. the lunacy of the progressive agenda??? what is the progressive agenda?? ensuring our country doesn't look like india, that our factories are of higher standard than those in El Salvador, making sure every person in the US can read and write, updating our aging nation's infrastructure so that rolling blackouts and broken levies aren't the law of the land anymore....
\
yeah, that evil, EEVIL progressive agenda..... the one that threatens the well-being of our country and the effectiveness of our government to function to look out for the interests of a small minority of extremely weatlhy people??????????
 

mame

Well-Known Member
In closing, I never seen a poor man create jobs so your argument about taxing the rich is stupid, and ill informed. You go ahead and tax the rich man and see if he doesn't put a freeze on hiring and a host of other things that contribute to this countrys well being. The government can not run anything effectively, it has been proven. Private business is the life blood of this country, if you don't understand that than I am sorry.
Uhm, aggregate demand creates jobs; Nothing more, nothing less. If there is demand for a product someone will find a way to make a profit off of it and sell it to the masses... In our situation demand is the problem - supply side is really showing very few issues (record profits, etc). There are times when business is constrained by costs (1975) but this is not one of those times.
 

sen.c

Active Member
Please do not try and talk business with me, you know nothing first hand other than what some chart or statistics tell you.

Business is always constrained by cost, if it wasn't then you wouldn't have competetive bid situations and a host of many other things that are involved. Plain and simple a manufacturer has to have a product that meets a price point that the public is willing to pay. If the product in question is being made here and it costs $100.00 to manufacture but the company can have it made in Mexico for $75.00 but the buyers of that product are only willing to pay $187.50 the company will have it made in Mexico to maximize the profits. That is a form of cost constraint.

As far as record profits go you are right, there are record profits being made but most of those products are either being manufactured out of the country or it is something that is under control of speculation. There are organizations called OSHA, EPA ect. here in the States that make domestic product more exspensive they don't have these organizations in foreign countries and that is a factor as well.
 

tet1953

Well-Known Member
social security has nothing to do with the debt and deficit.

welfare and social programs are nearly insignificant.

two wars, an unpaid for prescription drug plan, and tax cuts that should have expired by now add the largest chunk to the debt.

throw in a full blown recession and you get another huge chunk.

so you're right, it wasn't nixon.
UB I agree with you except that SS is related, just not in the way ppl suggest. Contrary to popular belief, our biggest creditor is not China, it is us. The biggest piece of the $14.3T debt is to SS, at $2.67T.

As I mentioned in a post the other day, why do they carry that on the books? Does anyone seriously believe that will ever be paid back to SS? We continue to "borrow" from it every day. Write that off, and we're instantly almost $3T less in debt. You could even sell it to republicans as a tax cut. Since we already paid it in to SS, and then they borrowed it, it would take more taxes to pay it back. Write it off, and voila, tax cut.

I'm sure there is something wrong with this, or they'd have done it by now. But what is that something?
 

sync0s

Well-Known Member
effective tax rates have never been lower all across the board for the past 10 years than they have ever been. no matter how much you say otherwise, it doesn't change FACT. YOU ARE ENTITLED TO YOUR OWN OPINION. NOT YOUR OWN FACTS MY FRIEND....

Barack Obama passed the single biggest tax cut in the nation's history.

you sir, are wrong. the lunacy of the progressive agenda??? what is the progressive agenda?? ensuring our country doesn't look like india, that our factories are of higher standard than those in El Salvador, making sure every person in the US can read and write, updating our aging nation's infrastructure so that rolling blackouts and broken levies aren't the law of the land anymore....
\
yeah, that evil, EEVIL progressive agenda..... the one that threatens the well-being of our country and the effectiveness of our government to function to look out for the interests of a small minority of extremely weatlhy people??????????
Interesting. Take into account that according to geographic.org, US is rated 33rd in reading scores (lower than Mexico!), our infrastructure is rated 23rd in the world (C'mon, we are the most powerful nation in the world and we get beat by Barbados?) The real enemy is the solvency of our government due to complete fiscal irresponsibility.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
I don't own a corporate jet either, but I will tell you this taxing the rich is not the answer.
you said "you would have been paying more taxes". at no time was the prospect of an across the board tax hike proposed, meaning that as much as you try to walk back your statement, you were still dead wrong.

Clearly you don't understand shit my friend.
i don't speak feces. sorry.

I always here people say "we will never have Social Security when it comes our turn." You know what they are probably right...
fully solvent until 2037. can pay out something like 70% until 2084. i have no doubts it will be there.

it can be permanently solvent by simply raising the cap.

and please learn the difference between "here" and "hear" :lol:

Welfare and other social programs are a drag on our economy as well, really are you fucking crazy or are you just fighting for you false sense of entitlement?

I bet illegal immagration isn't a drag on our economy either is it.
not a drag according to the most thorough study conducted on illegal immigration done by the state of texas in 2006. and that just measured how many taxes they paid in versus what services they received. they came out over $400 million ahead, a net boon. and then consider the fact that they added $17 billion to the economy just by being there.

welfare and other social programs are like a stitch in time saving nine. you may not be able to see the entirety of the picture, but it would cost more and create more social ills to do away with these programs and just let kids go to bed hungry.

I never seen a poor man create jobs
i get plenty of work every fall from "poor people". this year i will be employing a few people myself, and i am as poor as it gets.

you have an incredibly simplistic way of viewing things here. not surprising.

You go ahead and tax the rich man and see if he doesn't put a freeze on hiring and a host of other things that contribute to this countrys well being.
awww, poor baby. they're all going to go galt on us? go right ahead. plenty of people right behind them to take their places. that is the beauty of capitalism, everybody is replaceable.

btw, empirical evidence proves you wrong. tax levels under clinton were higher than they are now, and not everyone threw a hissy fit and shut down to show that big bad government a lesson. so your simpleton argument and idle threats are laughable. watch me laugh at you in emoticon style ----> :lol:
 

sen.c

Active Member
you said "you would have been paying more taxes".
Never said that.

i don't speak feces. sorry.
Funny to me most of your political posts are just that.

it can be permanently solvent by simply raising the cap.

and please learn the difference between "here" and "hear"
The answer is not raising the debt ceiling, to loan more money you can't pay back. Also what the government says is solvent could be different the next day.
So I made a spelling mistake, I am more worried of a world full of morons than my typing in this forum.

you may not be able to see the entirety of the picture, but it would cost more and create more social ills to do away with these programs and just let kids go to bed hungry.
Spoken like a true liberal, "go ahead and have kids even though you can't raise them, some poor hard working person will pay for them." You are fucking ridiculous.
I have 3 kids, you know why I don't have 4? Because it would not be financialy responsible of me not to mention we practice birth control, common fucking sense.

not a drag according to the most thorough study conducted on illegal immigration done by the state of texas in 2006. and that just measured how many taxes they paid in versus what services they received. they came out over $400 million ahead, a net boon. and then consider the fact that they added $17 billion to the economy just by being there.
It is quite obvious your an idiot if you don't think that illegal immigration is not a major drag on our economy.

awww, poor baby. they're all going to go galt on us? go right ahead. plenty of people right behind them to take their places. that is the beauty of capitalism, everybody is replaceable.
Yet again another ignorant fucking statement proving you have no clue how business really works. Employees are replaceable this is true, how about you take one of those employees that you think can just step in
and run the show and send him to the Bank to get the money he needs to make it all run. Let me know how that works for you, it will never happen unless he has a "Rich" man stand behind him with his money for a major stake in the undertaking. You crack me up. All these statistics you throw around and shit you talk really just makes you look as stupid as you sound.

I will tell you this, until you actually pursue your dream and sit in front of banker after banker only to be told no you will never realizethe truth in how business really works. It takes money, regardless of what you may think.

You can laugh at me all you want, I really don't give a shit. I have been there and done it as far as business goes and I am not talking about handy man and lawn mowing work but rather large money transactions and believe me there is alot more there than just having a dream.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Never said that.
i don't know if you have the cranial capacity of a mentally handicapped wombat, but the internet never forgets :lol:

Yeah yeah and when you would have been paying more taxes then you would have been bitching about that too.

Also we need to have our clock cleaned so all the stupid people out there can understand the consequences of being stupid, don't touch that it is hot................ Why did I get burned? LOL.......
The answer is not raising the debt ceiling, to loan more money you can't pay back.
i was talking about raising the cap on SS, not about raising the debt ceiling. are you a mentally handicapped wombat? i am curious now.

Spoken like a true liberal, "go ahead and have kids even though you can't raise them, some poor hard working person will pay for them." You are fucking ridiculous.
I have 3 kids, you know why I don't have 4? Because it would not be financialy responsible of me not to mention we practice birth control, common fucking sense.
birth control is not 100% unless you just stop fucking altogether.

and it is as if you don't live in a world where hard times befall otherwise responsible people, often through no fault of their own. even a mentally-handicapped wombat would realize this and not simply blame it all irresponsible people.

It is quite obvious your an idiot if you don't think that illegal immigration is not a major drag on our economy.
i realize that as someone who is quite possibly a mentally-handicapped wombat, you may believe this to be an awesome refutation of the most comprehensive study done to date on the issue, but sadly for you it is not.

Yet again another ignorant fucking statement proving you have no clue how business really works. Employees are replaceable this is true...
so are businesses. do you think that if you quit your job managing the cinnabun at the local mall (a job that even a mentally-handicapped wombat could do, by the way), that no business would replace you or that cinnabun wouldn't franchise someone else?

everyone is replaceable in capitalism.

I have been there and done it as far as business goes and I am not talking about handy man and lawn mowing work but rather large money transactions and believe me there is alot more there than just having a dream.
i bet that cinnabun at the local mall in minot, north dakota was quite the cash cow :lol:
 

MuyLocoNC

Well-Known Member
effective tax rates have never been lower all across the board for the past 10 years than they have ever been. no matter how much you say otherwise, it doesn't change FACT. YOU ARE ENTITLED TO YOUR OWN OPINION. NOT YOUR OWN FACTS MY FRIEND....

Barack Obama passed the single biggest tax cut in the nation's history.

you sir, are wrong. the lunacy of the progressive agenda??? what is the progressive agenda?? ensuring our country doesn't look like india, that our factories are of higher standard than those in El Salvador, making sure every person in the US can read and write, updating our aging nation's infrastructure so that rolling blackouts and broken levies aren't the law of the land anymore....
\
yeah, that evil, EEVIL progressive agenda..... the one that threatens the well-being of our country and the effectiveness of our government to function to look out for the interests of a small minority of extremely weatlhy people??????????
Thank you for proving my point, taxes are low right now(compared to Carter) , YET REVENUES ARE STILL AT AN ALL TIME HIGH (Fact). Like I said, $2.2 trillion, the problem is the spending...not lack of revenue.

Factories...really? The progressive agenda (R's and D's) have sent most of our industrial production oversees. Conservatives want our children to read and write, they just don't think the Dept of Education and the Federal government is the way to get it done.

You think you get claim you're the only one interested in improving the country, total HORSESHIT, we just have very different ideas on how it should be done. And apparently YOUR way isn't working out to well.

I also like the way you glossed right by the entire point of my post. You could take every single cent and asset of every rich person making over $1 million dollars a year and not even put a dent in the deficit for just this year alone. So raising their rate by 5, 10 or even 25% ain't gonna do shit. Get it?

derp de der
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
You could take every single cent and asset of every rich person making over $1 million dollars a year and not even put a dent in the deficit for just this year alone.
that's because we have a long term issue here, not a short term one.

get it?

derp dee der
 

mame

Well-Known Member
Thank you for proving my point, taxes are low right now(compared to Carter) , YET REVENUES ARE STILL AT AN ALL TIME HIGH (Fact). Like I said, $2.2 trillion, the problem is the spending...not lack of revenue.
Misleading stat. If you look at nominal revenue of course it's going up... The size of the economy is larger, inflation, etc all ensure that nominal revenue is always on an upward trend. If you look at Revenue as a percentage of GDP though, specifically in components you'll find that corporate tax revenue is at all time lows(this graph ends at 2006, which is fine because recession numbers are skewed anyway):

As you can see, corporate taxes are at an all time low (and income taxes have dropped since the Bush tax cuts, reinforcing that up is up and down is down on the laffer curve)... What's been talked about in Washington is closing loopholes, which would primarily raise corporate tax revenue... So what's the problem again? To call yourself a deficit hawk and refuse to admit the necessity of raising revenue as part of any deficit reduction package just exposes you as nothing more than an ideologue with an agenda; You dont care about the deficit as much as you care about your vision of smaller government... And you righties like to accuse lefties of seeking utopia? It is you that has the agenda to reshape America, not us.
 

MuyLocoNC

Well-Known Member
that's because we have a long term issue here, not a short term one.

get it?

derp dee der

Yeah, thanks for that, I kind of already got that. So, if taking 100% of their income AND assets only gets us around $800 billion then raising their taxes by even 10-20% on just their income would get us, Gee Willikers, a whopping tens of billions of dollars more each year (which it wouldn't, you'd get far less revenue). Great, now you just need to deal with the other $1.5+ trillion we add every year, and THEN you can start figuring out how to reduce the current debt. Yeah, it's a revenue problem.

get it?

derp dee der
 

mame

Well-Known Member
The deficit isn't going to be 1.5 Trillion every year for the next decade. In fact, if we ever get to full employment the deficit is projected to be 600 billion or so... it's not as much of a spending problem as you think; In the last decade, the Bush tax cuts have cost a tad over 2 Trillion... That's 200 billion a year in lost revenues, so that's about a third of the problem. After that, once we're out of the 17 wars we're fighting that's a good chunk of our short/medium term deficit... What's most important for the government to be doing is focusing on getting back to full employment, because that's worth tons of economic growth and revenues which would bolster our fiscal position.

The only fiscal problems we have are very long term (decades from now) and are most closely attributed to rising medical costs, not an abundance of government programs, etc.... Short term, our deficit is attributed almost entirely to the financial crisis of 08 and the Recession.

edit: herp derp
 

jeff f

New Member
you said "you would have been paying more taxes". at no time was the prospect of an across the board tax hike proposed, meaning that as much as you try to walk back your statement, you were still dead wrong.



i don't speak feces. sorry.



fully solvent until 2037. can pay out something like 70% until 2084. i have no doubts it will be there.

it can be permanently solvent by simply raising the cap.

and please learn the difference between "here" and "hear" :lol:



not a drag according to the most thorough study conducted on illegal immigration done by the state of texas in 2006. and that just measured how many taxes they paid in versus what services they received. they came out over $400 million ahead, a net boon. and then consider the fact that they added $17 billion to the economy just by being there.

welfare and other social programs are like a stitch in time saving nine. you may not be able to see the entirety of the picture, but it would cost more and create more social ills to do away with these programs and just let kids go to bed hungry.



i get plenty of work every fall from "poor people". this year i will be employing a few people myself, and i am as poor as it gets.

you have an incredibly simplistic way of viewing things here. not surprising.



awww, poor baby. they're all going to go galt on us? go right ahead. plenty of people right behind them to take their places. that is the beauty of capitalism, everybody is replaceable.

btw, empirical evidence proves you wrong. tax levels under clinton were higher than they are now, and not everyone threw a hissy fit and shut down to show that big bad government a lesson. so your simpleton argument and idle threats are laughable. watch me laugh at you in emoticon style ----> :lol:
so you are suggestin tax hikes in this climate? sounds good.

lets get them rich folk, that will improve my life! because......
 

sen.c

Active Member
Yeah yeah and when you would have been paying more taxes then you would have been bitching about that too.
Never said that in the context you are using, simply making a ponit to your "Tax the Rich" statements. Taxes are relative, they effect everybody in one way or another.

i was talking about raising the cap on SS, not about raising the debt ceiling. are you a mentally handicapped wombat? i am curious now.
The debt celing has an effect on Social Security; do you really think that the money that gets paid into SS is not pulled out to fund other projects and studies of the government?
To bad you can't see past your nose then maybee you would see how all this is tied together.


i realize that as someone who is quite possibly a mentally-handicapped wombat, you may believe this to be an awesome refutation of the most comprehensive study done to date on the issue, but sadly for you it is not.
Like I said before, you can take your studies and stick them. There are 3 types of lies, White lie, Bold Face Lie and then Statistics. Illegal immigration studies mean shit because the liberal media and statiticians can manipulate them to the outcome they want most of the time. Plain and simple, the idiots you obviously vote for help perpetuate this lie all in the name of votes. They don't have compassion or whatever they get on television and tell you it is simply a ruse to get the sheeple of this country on there side to get the votes to keep them in their comfort zone.

so are businesses. do you think that if you quit your job managing the cinnabun at the local mall (a job that even a mentally-handicapped wombat could do, by the way), that no business would replace you or that cinnabun wouldn't franchise someone else?
Sure they would franchise someone else, someone else with money. Do you think for a second the average person with no business expierence could walk in and get the franchise? Go ahead I'll wait............... Hell no!
Do you think for a second that the average person with no business expierence can walk into a Bank a get a loan for a franchise with no money? Go ahead I'll wait again............... Hell no!
Don't argue with me about business, it is clearly evident that you don't know the in's and out's of corporate America just by your statements. Sure will they franchise someone else or fill that spot with another venture sure most probably. Rest assured when it is franchised or filled with another venture you can bet it will be someone with money.

Thinking like yours is what happened to our real estate market. Give me a break, $40,000 a year mechanic getting an adjustable rate mortgage on a $250,000 home and they wonder why there was so much default. Thats the problem with people now a days and all this trying to keep up with the Jones' crap.

I do have to applaud Obama though for creating so many jobs even though they were minimum wage burger flipping one's. People with no ambition need jobs too. I know that people come upon hard times and I am willing to help anyone I can but if you are lazy and have no ambition don't come to me with an open hand. I am a firm believer in the old saying "If you don't work, you don't eat."

I just believe this is a situation that some of us want more for our country than our country wants for itself. It is clearly evident in all the false sense of entitlement and expectations that has brought our great country to the crossroad we are currently at.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Never said that in the context you are using
i presented the ENTIRE POST, full context included.

a mentally-handicapped wombat could do a better job at walking back their statement. you got caught in a lie, deal with.

Like I said before, you can take your studies and stick them. There are 3 types of lies, White lie, Bold Face Lie and then Statistics. Illegal immigration studies mean shit because the liberal media and statiticians can manipulate them to the outcome they want most of the time. Plain and simple, the idiots you obviously vote for help perpetuate this lie all in the name of votes. They don't have compassion or whatever they get on television and tell you it is simply a ruse to get the sheeple of this country on there side to get the votes to keep them in their comfort zone.
every study i present is a vast conspiracy, yet your biased opinion shall be worshipped at the altar of truth :lol:

a mentally-handicapped wombat could take a better stab at refuting the evidence and facts i have presented.

Don't argue with me about business, it is clearly evident that you don't know the in's and out's of corporate America just by your statements. Sure will they franchise someone else or fill that spot with another venture sure most probably. Rest assured when it is franchised or filled with another venture you can bet it will be someone with money.
so you can piss off and throw a hissy fit about all this "unfair gubbmint taxation" and go earn nothing, rest assured someone will come along and take the job that you went galt on and make the money you could have been making. whether they have money or not, there will be someone to come along and replace you.

end point: go ahead and go galt, you fucking crybaby.

and by the way, i will argue with you over whatever i want. the challenge is on par with arguing against a mentally-handicapped wombat.

 
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