Can anyone REALLY say anything bad about Fox News at this point?

[doobnVA]

I'm against GOVT sponsored health care.... absolutely. One need only look to SS, Medicare, Medicaid to see that the promises about the costs are NONSENSE. This is just common sense, but again, I can run some very real numbers by you.... scary numbers. We are dooming ppl who haven't been born yet. We are perhaps at the pinnacle of societal selfishness right now. History will not be kind to us. If we don't care, then it just proves the point.

No one is dying for lack of care in the US. You would have to go to Mexico,Canada, EU, Africa,Asia for that.... No one is denied care in the US.... no one, not even illegal citizens.

We have wiped out Malaria in the USA... you take it for granted. Africa deserves the BEST CHANCE at eradication. To do otherwise is to be an environmental racist.



Yes, I do.... maximum in this case means they added up all the little taxes that the average citizen must truly pay... such as VAT. Everything counts..... all must be paid...all those little city taxes... all must be paid.

So, this means that a fellow in Europe who makes about a thousand bucks a week (certainly a generous number) gets to actually take home less than 400 dollars. This is the main reason why the EU is not a competitive place to do business. Investment performance is low in the EU compared to China, India, USA. The ppl in the EU have hardly any money left over to enjoy everyday life. They make do.

Americans don't want to make do. Especially while our govt. employees make more than their private sector equivalents....

We don't want to be mediocre, and I'll give you a tip, the EU doesn't want us to be either. Our slipping into debt ridden socialism only hurts Europe, it doesn't help them.

If Medicare costs are so out of control, then why does the private health insurance industry spend nearly 7 times more on administrative costs (20 cents of every dollar) while the gov't spends only 3 cents out of every Medicare dollar?

If people in the US aren't denied care (LOL, you're funny) then why do we top the list for LEAST access to health care? That means more of our citizens DON'T have access to health care than in any other developed nation. Yes, we have great hospitals and doctors, but not everyone has affordable access to those services.

Yes, people die from lack of care in the US. It happens all the time. The insurance companies fuck around, denying claims, until it's too late and people DIE as a result.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwGLdYBm1bY





And AGAIN, Europe is a continent. There are many countries in Europe and all of them have different tax rates. There are also different tax brackets for people with different levels of income. Someone who is in the LOWEST tax bracket will NOT pay the maximum tax rate - they will pay the LOWEST tax rate (if they pay taxes at all). $1000 per week is $52,000 per year - NOT enough to put someone in the highest tax bracket. Even if there was a 70% tax rate in any of the European nations, a person making $1000 per week would NOT pay that much.

There is NO 70% tax rate ANYWHERE IN EUROPE. Period. Nobody pays 70% income tax, even those who make the most money and pay the highest tax rate (which is not very many, same as here in the US).

 

[illegalalien]

theres one cast that annoys/amuses me more than rightwing conspiracy theorist nuttbar's and thats rightwing conspiracy theorist nuttbar stoners . i wish ya'l would stick to your oxycontin and moonshine . i know thats bigoted of me, but at least i realize that.

 

[CrackerJax]

The reason why we top "the list" (which list?) is becuase skewed numbers are used. It was 50 million just last week right? Wrong. The President was very careful to say 30 million. Why what happened to the 40% in a week? Phony numbers.....

Health care prices are out of control, but most of that is BECAUSE of the Govt. right now!!!! One of the reasons I am so passionate to point out the folly and lies to which you blindly take on faith.

The AMA asked Obama to call off the TORT lawyers which are the driving force to our price problems... NOPE!!! NOT GONNA DO THAT!!! That would be crazy??!! Right? Obama is OWNED by the tort lobby.

One of the other QUICK ways is to take down the GOVT barriers so citizens can TRULY shop for prices across state lines. NOPE NOT GONNA DO THAT!! That would be crazy??!! Right??!!

The govt. doesn't want to fix private health care.... they can't gain power from doing that. That is our current administration mind set. It's horrific.

 

[doobnVA]

The reason why we top "the list" (which list?) is becuase skewed numbers are used. It was 50 million just last week right? Wrong. The President was very careful to say 30 million. Why what happened to the 40% in a week? Phony numbers.....

Health care prices are out of control, but most of that is BECAUSE of the Govt. right now!!!! One of the reasons I am so passionate to point out the folly and lies to which you blindly take on faith.

The AMA asked Obama to call off the TORT lawyers which are the driving force to our price problems... NOPE!!! NOT GONNA DO THAT!!! That would be crazy??!! Right? Obama is OWNED by the tort lobby.

One of the other QUICK ways is to take down the GOVT barriers so citizens can TRULY shop for prices across state lines. NOPE NOT GONNA DO THAT!! That would be crazy??!! Right??!!

The govt. doesn't want to fix private health care.... they can't gain power from doing that. That is our current administration mind set. It's horrific.

I said we top the list for LEAST access to health care, which has nothing to do with the number of uninsured people. Your ignorance on this is astounding.

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/Content/Publications/Fund-Reports/2007/May/Mirror--Mirror-on-the-Wall--An-International-Update-on-the-Comparative-Performance-of-American-Healt.aspx

I couldn't find the bigger list (which includes 23 developed nations) but I'll dig around some more and see if I can find it.

Health care prices have nothing to do with the government. Health insurance is a private industry, and they charge whatever they want. The price is so high because they are WASTING 20% of every dollar to employ as many people as possible to deny as many claims as possible, because that's how they turn a profit. Denying claims = money for the insurance companies. In countries where health care is "universal", the governments spend LESS on health care per person than the US currently does (and we don't even cover EVERYONE!).

The text of the "finished" bill is available online. I suggest you take a moment to read it. You'll see it DOES include provisions for opening up the market so people can purchase insurance policies across state lines, and includes NO provisions for "government run" health care. No "public option", no "socialism". It's a lot of reading, but I'm sure you'll ignore most of it anyway.

 

[CrackerJax]

you will have to define access..... Cnada has 800000 ppl WAITING for a hopsital bed, so does Britain... is that access?

400000 foreigners come to the USA to have their lives saved EVERY YEAR. Sound like there isn't access?

Why don't they just stay home? Because they want to live. If they stay home (socialized medicine) they will die.

Define access.

 

[Drgreenz]

all i can say is,
Im a racist,
your a racist,
he's a racist,
she's a racist,
if you don't like Obama so are you....

Crackerjax and all the rest of you right wing nuts are just racists, thats why you dont like P. Bo(Pres. Barry Obama) the people don't want facts like how Obama has already spent more than Bush did in 8 years and how his own organization ACORN gives advice on video to people on how to run child prostitution rings and launder money, its just like P Bo said in his book "white people are all ignorant mother fuckers like you." You gotta stop spilling these proven facts that the left is trying to keep quiet. we need to suport our glorious leader, the mesiah the way abc, nbc,cbs, cnn has.

lol.....

 

[CrackerJax]

Yes, after having a black man elected president.... and then calling ppl racist smacks of desperation. It's also wildly inaccurate, which means it is coming from the left.

 

[fdd2blk]

Yes, after having a black man elected president.... and then calling ppl racist smacks of desperation. It's also wildly inaccurate, which means it is coming from the left.

he's white.

 

[doobnVA]

you will have to define access..... Cnada has 800000 ppl WAITING for a hopsital bed, so does Britain... is that access?

400000 foreigners come to the USA to have their lives saved EVERY YEAR. Sound like there isn't access?

Why don't they just stay home? Because they want to live. If they stay home (socialized medicine) they will die.

Define access.

Access -

–verb (used with object) 9. to make contact with or gain access to; be able to reach, approach, enter, etc.

What this means in terms of health care in America is that people in the U.S. go without needed health care because of cost more often than people do in other countries on the list (which is comprised of OECD nations, I believe).

This is also interesting:

Equity: The U.S. ranks a clear last on all measures of equity. Americans with below-average incomes were much more likely than their counterparts in other countries to report not visiting a physician when sick, not getting a recommended test, treatment or follow-up care, not filling a prescription, or not seeing a dentist when needed because of costs. On each of these indicators, more than two-fifths of lower-income adults in the U.S. said they went without needed care because of costs in the past year.

So what if wealthy people from other nations can afford to come here for health care? The problem is health care being unaffordable for AMERICANS. Wealthy Americans and those lucky enough to have insurance can get treatment, too. The problem is those (AMERICANS) who CAN'T, and the fact that the insurance companies are making ridiculous amounts of money by denying coverage to the people who need it the most.

 

[CrackerJax]

the definition is not in context with the supposed "list" Please codify exactly what access is being denied and where.... or slip to the back of the line for inaccuracy.

Again, if our system sucks so badly, why do 400000 foreigners come here every year so they can live.

 

[Drgreenz]

Equity: The U.S. ranks a clear last on all measures of equity. Americans with below-average incomes were much more likely than their counterparts in other countries to report not visiting a physician when sick, not getting a recommended test, treatment or follow-up care, not filling a prescription, or not seeing a dentist when needed because of costs. On each of these indicators, more than two-fifths of lower-income adults in the U.S. said they went without needed care because of costs in the past year.

exactly my point americans are all racist unequal bigoted white ignorant mother fuckers like me.
come on dude, america already has free health care, its called the hipocratic oath, you cannot be turned away from a hospital if you need treatment. this is why health care cost keep rising, because your poor "unequal" morons rather than get on their states free health care plan simply go in and never pay. so, health care providers have to make up the cost for them buy charging every decent person who will pay.

 

[CrackerJax]

The very idea that ppl don't have health insurance and somehow that is deemed as a crisis, is an indication of just how soft Americans are. We all got here without health insurance somehow. It's not a crisis. It's not a right.

Obama gave two examples during his speech of ppl who died because they didn't get their treatment. Now his office poured over 160,000 pages of documents and you can bet your bottom dollar they picked the two worst cases they could dig up.

Guess what? Both cases are wrong and misleading. Both patients lied to their insurance companies from the get go. That is cheating the system.... and guess what, cheaters seldom prosper.

I'm so tired of hearing about this Pre-existing crud. If you have a pre-existing condition and u lie about it and get caught.... you should receive...nothing. If your rates go up because of the pre existing condition... tough luck, that's the way it works.

The idea is that you do not buy insurance AFTER you get sick. That is self defeating and insurance business models cannot work under those conditions.

Think of it like auto insurance. What do you think your auto rates would be if ppl only bought insurance AFTER they had an accident, and then got a claim up front. It's the same with pre existing conditions..... get your insurance BEFORE you become ill. There is no such thing as a retroactive insurance. Obama wants one, but it will bankrupt the nation.

 

[doobnVA]

exactly my point americans are all racist unequal bigoted white ignorant mother fuckers like me.
come on dude, america already has free health care, its called the hipocratic oath, you cannot be turned away from a hospital if you need treatment. this is why health care cost keep rising, because your poor "unequal" morons rather than get on their states free health care plan simply go in and never pay. so, health care providers have to make up the cost for them buy charging every decent person who will pay.

"Get on their state's free health care plan"....

What free health care plan? MY state doesn't have one, unless you mean Medicare or Medicaid (which not everyone qualifies for just because they're poor, by the way).


CrackerJax: Access is access. There is no secret hidden meaning of the word in this context, though I am assuming it means more specifically "financial or other means to obtain basic care". Mostly financial, since the reason given for this is that people don't seek medical treatment because they can't afford it.

How much does it cost to walk into an emergency room and have an x-ray if you don't have insurance? Any idea? I'll give you a hint: It's more than a minimum-wage worker can earn in a month. So, you have two choices. Go to the emergency room (because a private practice physician will want cash, up-front) and struggle to pay off the bill bit by bit (or just skip out on the bill altogether, passing the cost on to everyone else), OR don't see a doctor. It seems many people are choosing the latter.

 

[Wordz]

You have obviously not been to europe. They give about 70% of their checks up every pay period. Exactly what economic model do you think Obama is running???? Wake up.........

Again you're just showing ignorance no country in europe has a 70% tax rate.
Denmark and the netherlands have about 60% Maximum tax. Would you please for all sake of rational debate stop making shit up from the top of your head. Numbers don't lie as you've said before.

 

[doobnVA]

Think of it like auto insurance. What do you think your auto rates would be if ppl only bought insurance AFTER they had an accident, and then got a claim up front. It's the same with pre existing conditions..... get your insurance BEFORE you become ill. There is no such thing as a retroactive insurance. Obama wants one, but it will bankrupt the nation.

What I've been trying to point out to you, to no avail, is the fact that health care is unaffordable for many people. This means they probably haven't seen a doctor in years, so if they're lucky enough to obtain health insurance and see a doctor - they find out they have one of these "conditions" that makes them ineligible for insurance.

See the cycle?

1. Can't afford insurance or visits to the doctor, so you don't go.

2. Manage to get insurance and finally see a doctor (because now it's only a $20 copay versus a several hundred dollar lump sum) and find out you have cervical cancer that's been undiagnosed and untreated for too long and requires immediate surgery.

3. Insurance company cancels your policy because of this condition you didn't know you had, because WITHOUT insurance you couldn't afford to see the doctor.

4. (1.) Can't afford insurance or visits to the doctor, so you don't go.


FYI: Most, if not all states require you to carry auto insurance. Why? You answered that yourself. Driving a car isn't a "right" either, but you seem to be okay with everyone having auto insurance...because YOUR rates would be higher if they didn't. So, same thing applies to health care, right?

 

[Drgreenz]

What I've been trying to point out to you, to no avail, is the fact that health care is unaffordable for many people. This means they probably haven't seen a doctor in years, so if they're lucky enough to obtain health insurance and see a doctor - they find out they have one of these "conditions" that makes them ineligible for insurance.

See the cycle?

1. Can't afford insurance or visits to the doctor, so you don't go.

2. Manage to get insurance and finally see a doctor (because now it's only a $20 copay versus a several hundred dollar lump sum) and find out you have cervical cancer that's been undiagnosed and untreated for too long and requires immediate surgery.

3. Insurance company cancels your policy because of this condition you didn't know you had, because WITHOUT insurance you couldn't afford to see the doctor.

4. (1.) Can't afford insurance or visits to the doctor, so you don't go.


5. get the surgery anyway because doctors cannot refuse to treat you, and you dont have to pay because the rest of us will pay higher premiums for you.

 

[Wordz]

if you're against universal health care you have no compassion for the less fortunate citizens of your country. Crackerjax are you really gonna blame government for high health care costs?

 

[doobnVA]

Again you're just showing ignorance no country in europe has a 70% tax rate.
Denmark and the netherlands have about 60% Maximum tax. Would you please for all sake of rational debate stop making shit up from the top of your head. Numbers don't lie as you've said before.

Good luck. I'm beginning to think he just argues for argument's sake. I hope he doesn't actually believe his made-up numbers and is just fucking with us to see if we'll get angry

 

[doobnVA]

5. get the surgery anyway because doctors cannot refuse to treat you, and you dont have to pay because the rest of us will pay higher premiums for you, thereby taxing the entire system to the point of complete failure and driving health care costs even higher, putting health insurance out of reach for even more Americans.

And that's what has already happened, and WHY it happened, AND why it isn't sustainable.

 

[FlyLikeAnEagle]

If one was to include their health care costs along with taxes the rate could easily be over 70% of their income, especially if you're self employed. Health care costs have gone up 110% over the past 10 years and there are some estimates that in another 10 years the average persons health care will eat up over 50% of their income. I'm not sure if republicans just don't care or are really this stupid, my guess is a combination of both.