There is a crack in everything...

[Humanrob]

Little update, lots of things changed. I was focusing this grow on some seeds I wanted to try, and doing a sip/non-sip comparison. Then I dropped the comparison. Then... everything else changed. Total random event led me to get a GG#4 clone, a plant I love to grow. So... the seedlings were bumped from the 3x3 to a temporary grow space (as in I'll use it for this whole run and then take it down), and the GG4 gets the 3x3 to itself in the sip that I had cleaned up and prepared for the comparison that I did not do. Three from the seedling group were weak or deformed, I had not stored those seeds well, so they are gone and there are 8 healthy ones left.

It will be interesting to see how the old 13' x 13' garage room does with three grow spaces in it. I have around 40 gallons of damp soil in fabric pots in there, that has the potential to produce a lot of humidity. As soon as the GG4 establishes and I flip on the additional cobs in there, my total COB output will be over 1000w. I've got the dehumidifier (run at night) and AC (run during the day) on standby. With just the two tents going up til now (with the seedlings in 4" pots, not 3 gallon pots) I have had no issues and have been running a heater on a plug thermostat to maintain a minimum temperature. This has been a relatively warm January so far, no telling what the next three months will bring weather-wise.



One of the best parts of this grow compared to the last one, is that breeding is totally secondary, if I get a good male I might chuck some pollen depending on what girls are ready. But with that not being the primary goal, every space will be flipped when its ready. Last grow I had to flip a whole tent full of girls that could have used another couple of weeks of vegging because the ones in the other tent were outgrowing their space and had to be flipped, and I wanted both spaces to be lined up maturity-wise so that I could pollinate across both. That left those under-vegged girls stunted throughout the grow. Won't happen this time.

 

[Tim Fox]

very nice

 

[Humanrob]

very nice

Thanks buddy. The grow kept growing, but I think it will be manageable.

 

[too larry]

Little update, lots of things changed. I was focusing this grow on some seeds I wanted to try, and doing a sip/non-sip comparison. Then I dropped the comparison. Then... everything else changed. Total random event led me to get a GG#4 clone, a plant I love to grow. So... the seedlings were bumped from the 3x3 to a temporary grow space (as in I'll use it for this whole run and then take it down), and the GG4 gets the 3x3 to itself in the sip that I had cleaned up and prepared for the comparison that I did not do. Three from the seedling group were weak or deformed, I had not stored those seeds well, so they are gone and there are 8 healthy ones left.

It will be interesting to see how the old 13' x 13' garage room does with three grow spaces in it. I have around 40 gallons of damp soil in fabric pots in there, that has the potential to produce a lot of humidity. As soon as the GG4 establishes and I flip on the additional cobs in there, my total COB output will be over 1000w. I've got the dehumidifier (run at night) and AC (run during the day) on standby. With just the two tents going up til now (with the seedlings in 4" pots, not 3 gallon pots) I have had no issues and have been running a heater on a plug thermostat to maintain a minimum temperature. This has been a relatively warm January so far, no telling what the next three months will bring weather-wise.

View attachment 4079047View attachment 4079050

One of the best parts of this grow compared to the last one, is that breeding is totally secondary, if I get a good male I might chuck some pollen depending on what girls are ready. But with that not being the primary goal, every space will be flipped when its ready. Last grow I had to flip a whole tent full of girls that could have used another couple of weeks of vegging because the ones in the other tent were outgrowing their space and had to be flipped, and I wanted both spaces to be lined up maturity-wise so that I could pollinate across both. That left those under-vegged girls stunted throughout the grow. Won't happen this time.

Looking good. Making seeds is always high on my list, but since I'm at the mercy of Mother Nature, I never know what crosses I'll be making until they start to flower. The deer, grasshoppers, slugs as well as several other things have a say in what makes it that far.

 

[Humanrob]

Looking good. Making seeds is always high on my list, but since I'm at the mercy of Mother Nature, I never know what crosses I'll be making until they start to flower. The deer, grasshoppers, slugs as well as several other things have a say in what makes it that far.

Thanks Larry, I feel good about this one. It's off to a good start and has a lot of potential... if I don't f**k it up... LOL

There are things I like about both indoor and outdoor, and after doing each one I'm usually ready for the other. After losing battles last summer with worms, mold, and thieves, I am enjoying this indoor run. My worst enemy here is my electric bill, hard for me to believe that its January and I'll be turning on the AC today. There's just something wrong with that picture. There is nothing quite like growing huge cannabis trees under the sun, so it's usually worth doing an outdoor even with all the issues.

 

[too larry]

Thanks Larry, I feel good about this one. It's off to a good start and has a lot of potential... if I don't f**k it up... LOL

There are things I like about both indoor and outdoor, and after doing each one I'm usually ready for the other. After losing battles last summer with worms, mold, and thieves, I am enjoying this indoor run. My worst enemy here is my electric bill, hard for me to believe that its January and I'll be turning on the AC today. There's just something wrong with that picture. There is nothing quite like growing huge cannabis trees under the sun, so it's usually worth doing an outdoor it even with all the issues.

I don't do the huge plants for fear of detection. Last year I started seeds in June, just so they would stay small. But I could always do larger numbers to make up for it. My problem is losing my growing spots due to cousins selling their land. I just heard this week 40 acres of my prime growing land is going to be sold out of the family. Last year her sister's kid sold the 40 next to it, where some of my best spots had been. And a cousin turning what had been a camp into a full time home has taken 10 acres of my own land off the table. This coming year will be a challenge. Still have lots of good spots, but with more eyes in the neighborhood, my freedom of movement is greatly curtailed. I'm spending lots of time hiking and talking about hiking. So when they see me walking in the woods, I'm hoping they think hiking, not growing dope.

 

[Humanrob]

I don't do the huge plants for fear of detection. Last year I started seeds in June, just so they would stay small. But I could always do larger numbers to make up for it. My problem is losing my growing spots due to cousins selling their land. I just heard this week 40 acres of my prime growing land is going to be sold out of the family. Last year her sister's kid sold the 40 next to it, where some of my best spots had been. And a cousin turning what had been a camp into a full time home has taken 10 acres of my own land off the table. This coming year will be a challenge. Still have lots of good spots, but with more eyes in the neighborhood, my freedom of movement is greatly curtailed. I'm spending lots of time hiking and talking about hiking. So when they see me walking in the woods, I'm hoping they think hiking, not growing dope.

Wow, that's a lot of land. I hope you get to keep enough to meet your needs.

 

[SSGrower]

I don't do the huge plants for fear of detection. Last year I started seeds in June, just so they would stay small. But I could always do larger numbers to make up for it. My problem is losing my growing spots due to cousins selling their land. I just heard this week 40 acres of my prime growing land is going to be sold out of the family. Last year her sister's kid sold the 40 next to it, where some of my best spots had been. And a cousin turning what had been a camp into a full time home has taken 10 acres of my own land off the table. This coming year will be a challenge. Still have lots of good spots, but with more eyes in the neighborhood, my freedom of movement is greatly curtailed. I'm spending lots of time hiking and talking about hiking. So when they see me walking in the woods, I'm hoping they think hiking, not growing dope.

Sometimes I go to spring nearby to gather water, for what firefighters call a piss pack (5 gallon water bag backpack). Came up with the excuse, I walk downhill with it empty to "save my knees", fill it and walk back home. Of the number of people Ive passed on the trail only once has someone asked me what I was doing, but that also relates to the kind of neighbors I have.

 

[SSGrower]

For me, the heat put out by the dehumidifier at night sort of leveled off the cooler night temps, I ended out with a pretty narrow temp range overall between day and night, never truly hot or cold. That was a fall/winter grow, now I'm doing a winter/spring grow, I don't have enough AC power to do a summer run.

I know what you mean about having pollinated and then having the plant go hermie... that's a tough one. 2/3's of these seeds were suspect -- some were from a plant we loved but could not identify that hermied, so we collected those seeds. In my outdoor runs (2 consecutive seasons), they NEVER hermied -- it only happened indoors. Others were F1's of crosses I made, so those could be weak genetics, this was their test run. The last 4 were OGS seeds, and one I ran outdoors last summer and it did not hermie, but it did hermie indoors. I have to think this is environmental.

^^^^^^^^^I really jinxed myself by posting this^^^^^^^^^^
Nanners on my 1st pollen chuck, I did 2 and the 2nd is looking good still.

 

[Humanrob]

^^^^^^^^^I really jinxed myself by posting this^^^^^^^^^^
Nanners on my 1st pollen chuck, I did 2 and the 2nd is looking good still.

Are they the 'banana' kind that form within the female flowers, or are they full on hanging male flowers?

Mine were all complete male flowers, usually very few of them, often just one pair low on the plant. I've been told if you catch them before they open and remove them, the plant might not produce anymore and the danger of self-pollination might be averted. Either way it does say something about the genetics, in terms of not going F2 with those seeds.

 

[SSGrower]

It seemed like they were female flowers that reverted, the calyx receded, nanners developed inside then opened. I'll post a few pics but can't always insert images so you may have to click below to see.

They were for the most part isolated to nodes about half way up the plant. One exception is the very top looks like it got seeded. I could have contaminated it myself tho.

For comparison, the one on the right is it, the one on the left is another of the same strain before polination.

Notice the one on the left has dark streaks mixed in with the white hairs. I thought this was just a purple variation, but hindsight is closer to 20/20 than my vision in the present.

My style and environment (cool and dry) likely created this, primarily the short veg not allowing plant to reach sexual maturity before adjusting the light schedule, even though I do it gradually overy 14-21 days, in many cases apical dominance (alternating nodes) is not fully established.

Edit - the male flowers were all at or near the 1st node of new growth like the one pictured on the cut branch.

 

[Humanrob]

It seemed like they were female flowers that reverted, the calyx receded, nanners developed inside then opened. I'll post a few pics but can't always insert images so you may have to click below to see.View attachment 4080576

They were for the most part isolated to nodes about half way up the plant. One exception is the very top looks like it got seeded. I could have contaminated it myself tho.
View attachment 4080578
For comparison, the one on the right is it, the one on the left is another of the same strain before polination.
View attachment 4080581
Notice the one on the left has dark streaks mixed in with the white hairs. I thought this was just a purple variation, but hindsight is closer to 20/20 than my vision in the present.

My style and environment (cool and dry) likely created this, primarily the short veg not allowing plant to reach sexual maturity before adjusting the light schedule, even though I do it gradually overy 14-21 days, in many cases apical dominance (alternating nodes) is not fully established.

Edit - the male flowers were all at or near the 1st node of new growth like the one pictured on the cut branch.

That's similar to my experience, and I really have only guesses as to why it happened. Others have mentioned similar outcomes with their grows, hopefully we can get to an actual cause.

You mentioned, "My style and environment (cool and dry) likely created this" -- my last grow was warm and dry, towards the end very dry, so I'm not sure if just RH was the primary factor? Kind of hard to imagine. I've had grows over the years that have been all over the map. This phenomenon transcends any variables I'm aware of.

One breeder I talked with thinks it's strictly a genetics thing, that after years of breeding his experience was that hermie-ing comes easy to some phenos, and not to others, and that my last grow was a perfect storm of weak genetics (or sloppily bred strains, where they did not take the time to do repeated carefully selected crossings that weaned out those that tended to hermie).

 

[SSGrower]

That's similar to my experience, and I really have only guesses as to why it happened. Others have mentioned similar outcomes with their grows, hopefully we can get to an actual cause.

You mentioned, "My style and environment (cool and dry) likely created this" -- my last grow was warm and dry, towards the end very dry, so I'm not sure if just RH was the primary factor? Kind of hard to imagine. I've had grows over the years that have been all over the map. This phenomenon transcends any variables I'm aware of.

One breeder I talked with thinks it's strictly a genetics thing, that after years of breeding his experience was that hermie-ing comes easy to some phenos, and not to others, and that my last grow was a perfect storm of weak genetics (or sloppily bred strains, where they did not take the time to do repeated carefully selected crossings that weaned out those that tended to hermie).

Perhaps we need to start a "Show us your tranny's" thread. Now that you mention it low RH seems to be the one thing present every time I've seen this....if that is the link then my automated humidifier just added the other day should help.

Edit - Or is this the "Show us your tranny's " thread?

 

[Humanrob]

Perhaps we need to start a "Show us your tranny's" thread. Now that you mention it low RH seems to be the one thing present every time I've seen this....if that is the link then my automated humidifier just added the other day should help.

Edit - Or is this the "Show us your tranny's " thread?

Please no... I'd rather this thread be my random grow thread than turn into a themed thread. Let's start another one for that.

 

[Humanrob]

Updates: the seedlings

This has turned into the grow of experimental training. I read a bunch on mainlining but am not really into doing it 100%. Partly because the seedlings I'm working with are regular photos, so while the practice is nice, training the crap out of a bunch of boys that are going to get composted is kind of a waste. At any rate, I'm having fun with them.

Below are pics of one that's kind of harshly trimmed, one that's mildly trimmed, and one that is untouched (not trimmed or trained, both of the other two are wired down). What surprised me is that the one that is untouched is no taller than the trained ones. I'm guessing the 4000k lights they are under are keeping them compact? These are about 4.5 weeks from germination.

 

[Humanrob]

Updates: The Jack Herer's in the 2x4

I let these go too long between trimming, and then decided they were getting close to being flipped so I did a massive trim. Thursday will be 5 weeks of vegging (plus one week before I got them), and I'll probably flip them then. I had hoped to veg them for 6-8 weeks, but have discovered that I don't know how to do that... somewhere in the 3-5 week range my scrogs fill up. I don't want to top them again, I'd rather have fewer bigger colas than more smaller ones.









I've only grown Jack Herer once before, and it was in a crowded tent that was flipped early. I don't know what it's growth characteristics are in terms of whether it tends to produce big buds or not. In that previous tent it was in with Chernobyl, Cinex, and a Lemon Diesel.

The Chernobyl and Cinex are a bit like GSC, they tend to make a lot of small dense buds. If I had tried to train them to make fewer bigger buds, I suspect they might have made slightly bigger buds, but I doubt they would have formed big colas, I think that is simply outside of their genetic characteristics. In that group, the Jack by far had the largest buds. I'm hoping its a strain that lends itself to focusing its energy on fewer larger colas.

I'll keep training them through the first week or two of the stretch to try and even them out, and then let them grow upward.

 

[Humanrob]

Update: GG4 in a 3x3

I've never grown a single plant in a 3x3 before. This one is in a SIP, and while @captainmorgan mastered growing GG4 in a SIP in a 3x3 under COBs, I'm not as experienced a grower as he is.

This tent is the shortest space I have at 6' tall, and the SIP is the tallest pot I have. Add to that the COBs in there are running at 75w and need more distance from the plants, and I have the shortest actual plant space I've ever dealt with. And damn it, I want a pound!!! Just kidding. I'll take what I can get.

I'm really into this pseudo-mainlining training this run, can't seem to help myself. But after establishing the flat base I'm going to convert over to scrogging. No telling what will come of this, but here she stands at the moment -- this is 2 weeks since I picked up the clone, and 10 days since it went into the SIP.

 

[Humanrob]

I've decided that if I'm going to continue recording grows, I should do it in the grow journal section, so I'm going to stop updating this thread with regular grow info.

Some folks have asked about the hermie issues I've been having, some having experienced similar things -- since that topic could benefit the community, I'm open to discussing that here (or in a designated thread, if one pops up).

I've been doing things basically the same way for years, and recently everything has been coming out differently. Things like popping OGS seeds last summer and have 6 of 9 be boys, and then popping more for an indoor this winter and having one true hermie (i.e. developing both male and female flowers from the very beginning), and only 2 of 8 being girls. I'm holding my breath on the remaining ones, hoping they can go full term and remain 100% female. Of the two remaining, one is an OGS strain, the other is a different breeder.

I've been told about temps during germination impacting sex, I will scrutinize that next time. For now all I can say is that I'm thankful I live in a legal state with decent healthy clones available, because if I were relying on seeds for my med grow, I'd be up the creek.

 

[Humanrob]

The first full hermie I already chucked, but I took some pics of the second one -- both are OGS Double Diesel. I'll give it one more day to make sure I'm not misreading it, but I expect that tomorrow this one will get composted also.

 

[SSGrower]

Please no... I'd rather this thread be my random grow thread than turn into a themed thread. Let's start another one for that.

Sorry I feel resposible for this

I've decided that if I'm going to continue recording grows, I should do it in the grow journal section, so I'm going to stop updating this thread with regular grow info.

Some folks have asked about the hermie issues I've been having, some having experienced similar things -- since that topic could benefit the community, I'm open to discussing that here (or in a designated thread, if one pops up).

I've been doing things basically the same way for years, and recently everything has been coming out differently. Things like popping OGS seeds last summer and have 6 of 9 be boys, and then popping more for an indoor this winter and having one true hermie (i.e. developing both male and female flowers from the very beginning), and only 2 of 8 being girls. I'm holding my breath on the remaining ones, hoping they can go full term and remain 100% female. Of the two remaining, one is an OGS strain, the other is a different breeder.

I've been told about temps during germination impacting sex, I will scrutinize that next time. For now all I can say is that I'm thankful I live in a legal state with decent healthy clones available, because if I were relying on seeds for my med grow, I'd be up the creek.

I notice you are in a recently legal state. Twenty-five years ago I grew a little under a 400w mh and 250w hps, had decent results, all bag seed, mostly mexican brick. Didnt have issues, but also was in spare bedroom, not a cold ass garage like I am now. So fast forward to 2014 it had been 15 years sice i'd grown anything and CO legalizes rec and anyone can grow legally now, there are already large scale greenhouse grows for medical, now multiply that by ??? There is one that must be 20 acres right where I-25 and I-70 intersect, the area used to smell of industry, now weed and industry with a splash of dog food from the purina plant.

Now what does this have to do with anything? I'm starting to wonder if pheremones are playing a role.

My conditions have not been ideal as I have stated but on this most recent run I was yet again frustrated, of no fewer tha 8 strains from seed and a clone all have either thrown nanners or hermephrodited since I restarted. I do feel like I am seeing more males, but I'm still just under 50%. I have gotten a tent and for a few reasons have decided to run positive presure instead of negative like most do, the air in is filtered and there's a passive outlet filter. This tent should resolve my climate issues, I have a clone of one that just threw nanners and will run that, also will run probably run seeds from one that turned early on, right after I polinated it with a male.

I hope you solve the issues you are having but I fear we may be experiencing a new normal.