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There is a crack in everything...

Discussion in 'Indoor Growing' started by Humanrob, Nov 23, 2016.

  1.  
    Humanrob

    Humanrob Well-Known Member

    It's all an experiment.

    Last summer I got some pollen from an LSD (Mazar-I-Sharif x Skunk #1), and crossed it on single branches with a Bruce Banner #3 and a Jillybean (and a few others, but those two are the ones I popped). That was the first time I tried pollinating.

    Towards the end of the summer I decided to try something else -- finishing a couple of outdoor plants in the garage to avoid the wet fall. To that end, I bought an inexpensive 600w MH/HPS set up. Up until this point, all of my indoor (after my first run with CFLs) has been LED/COB, so I had never owned any HID lights.

    My summer outdoor provided us with enough meds to last a year, so the indoor grows I'm doing this winter are just about adding some variety, trying Sativa strains that would take too long to flower outdoors, and testing my crosses. To that end I have a 2x4 tent with 400w of DIY Cree 3070 COBs (2-5000k, 2-4000k, 4-3000k), and a 3x3 tent with a 600w HID and a pair of Optic 120's @4000k.

    The 2x4 is running four small SIPs, the only experiment there is that two use bins and two use fabric pots as the soil container part. So far they are acting as one might expect, the fabric pots are draining the res's quicker. I'm curious if over the course of the grow one is better for a SIP than the other. The strain line-up is (one each): Jack Herer, Lemon Sour Diesel, Cinex, and Chernobyl.

    The 3x3 is currently only running the 600w MH, haven't flipped the Optics on yet. I started 16 seeds, 12 popped. In addition to the LSDxBB#3 and LSDxJillybean, I popped some Dr. Who seeds I didn't run last summer. The seedlings are a bit stretchy at the moment, I underestimated how much light intensity they could take. This is the third time I've started from seeds, the first time for an indoor grow.

    Then I saw some strains at a dispensary I could not resist, so there are three clones in the 3x3 with the seedlings; Wild Thai, Island Sweet Skunk, and NYC Diesel. Having lived their lives until now under fluorescent lights, the clones are going through an adjustment period with the MH light. The seeds want more light, the clones want less, experiments lead to learning, every time.

    I'm actually not sure if there are parameters which define a "sea of green" in terms of the number per space, but the 3x3 is the closest I've ever come to one. I expect that once the seedlings take off, they will catch up to the clones pretty quickly. When its time to up-pot, I'll keep 12 plants (3 clones, and 9 from seed) going in 2 gallon pots. I expect that 3+/- of the plants from seed will be boys, and I'll end out flowering around 9+/- plants in the 3x3.

    I'm guessing a lot and my vague plan is to let the plants tell me what to do along the way. That said, I am open to advice, shared experiences, and learning. Always.


    11.23_2x4.jpg 11.23_3x3.jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2016
  2.  
    Rocket Soul

    Rocket Soul Well-Known Member

    Back on the sips again. Subbing up
     
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  3.  
    Humanrob

    Humanrob Well-Known Member

    Glad to see ya. :)

    There are countless daily tweaks that I'm doing, but I'll try stick to the big stuff for weekly updates. As far as SIPs go, they are awesome but imperfect. There is definitely room for improvement on my part. This is my second run with them indoors, and these are a different scale than the previous ones, much smaller.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2016
  4.  
    Tyleb173rd

    Tyleb173rd Well-Known Member

    I have a Wild Thai growing under some COBs. It's a beautiful plant and branches like Gorilla Glue. I'll take a pic tonight and post it here.
    EDIT: it's at 38 days from flip
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2016
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  5.  
    Humanrob

    Humanrob Well-Known Member

    I look forward to seeing that!

    My Wild Thai is not doing great so far, its not liking my soil or something. I'm hoping it adjusts -- which they sometimes seem to do on their own -- because I'm not up for chasing deficiencies for individual plants on this run. This is kind of a low effort sink or swim grow; I'll give everything good soil/lights/nutes/temps -- and they do what they can with my set up. Most of them love it, some, not so much. I think the most strains I've ever run before at one time was 4, I've got 10 going now, so to keep it fun I'm going to keep it simple.
     
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  6.  
    Rusher

    Rusher Well-Known Member

    Love the experiments, I'm trying a few new things over the winter as well. Subbed in for the ride.
     
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  7.  
    Tyleb173rd

    Tyleb173rd Well-Known Member

    Here's my Thai at 38 days from flip
     

    Attached Files:

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  8.  
    Humanrob

    Humanrob Well-Known Member

    Nice! Thanks for sharing those. I'm afraid mine won't have the time or space to get that big, but hopefully we'll get a good sample from her.
     
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  9.  
    Humanrob

    Humanrob Well-Known Member

    Weekly Update

    Starting with the 2x4, the first pic is the way it looked when I woke up this morning, the second is after the last pre-flip training. I've reached the outer edges of the scrog, so I'll flip tomorrow. One nice thing is that these SIPs are shorter than the massive ones I used last time, so I cut 6" off the scrog legs and I have more vertical room. I also have a second level screen if I need it. I rebuilt my light last summer, and its much easier to deal with now -- the new build has remote drivers and is 4 individual units instead of one big one.

    11.30_2x4.jpg 11.30_2x4-tucked.jpg

    I mentioned that I don't want to "chase deficiencies", there is one exception, I have cal-mag on hand because everything seems to need it, all the time, in both tents. Makes me think that whatever they put in Happy Frog and Fox Farms OF (my base mix), there isn't any useable calcium in it. I add dolomite lime, but I've been told that it can take weeks or months to break down to an absorbable form, so it might kick in during flower but its basically useless during veg. Have not done any research to verify that... just sayin'.

    Over in the 3x3, in order are: NYC Diesel, Wild Thai, and Island Sweet Skunk

    11.30_nyc-diesel.jpg 11.30_wild-thai.jpg 11.30_sweet-skunk.jpg

    Here are the babies, and after taking this pic I decided to raise the lights a couple of inches. They seem a bit pale to me, but it might be a soil issue. I have them in just Happy Frog, and I'm not sure if its a deficiency or "heat" issue.

    11.30_sprouts.jpg

    This last shot is just a fluke... I started all of my seeds on 11/13. I mentioned that several of my seeds never popped, and I was bummed because one cross (4 seeds) did not pop at all. Knowing that some take longer, I kept them wet for another week to give them a chance. Nothing. And then I noticed one had, but it wasn't that strain, it was a Lucy Banner (LSDxBruceBanner#3), the only other seed that had not popped. I haven't been able to bring myself to toss it out (yet?), the little bugger just wants to live.

    11.30_wont-quit.jpg
     
  10.  
    Humanrob

    Humanrob Well-Known Member

    Since I had the tent opened up for the final pre-flip lower leaf clean up, I took another pic. The clones in there were the tallest lankiest clones I've ever bought, availability is really limited this time of year. It made training them a challenge, because there isn't a lot of leaf matter to work with and once under the net they reached the edges of the tent quickly. At 2.5 weeks, this was by far the shortest veg I've ever done, and I'm fine with trying that out and seeing what happens. I usually veg for around 6 weeks, and I've gone 8 a few times, but that was in much larger containers (7-10 gallon as opposed to these 3 gallon).

    This is the 2x4 opened up -

    11.30_2x4pre-flip.jpg

    And a shot of the 3x3 opened up...

    11.28_3x3open.jpg

    Lots of room to grow in both.
     
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  11.  
    Humanrob

    Humanrob Well-Known Member

    Some quick updates: I up-potted the 3x3. I have a tough time throwing plants out... so there are three more than I intended to have (the three up front in 1 gallon pots). SOG'ing is new to me, but in a couple of weeks we'll see how many boys there are. My rough plan is to flip to 12/12 in about a week... does that sound about right?


    12.03_3x3uppot-full.jpg 12.03_3x3-lookingdown.jpg 12.03_3x3up-potted.jpg
     
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  12.  
    Tim Fox

    Tim Fox Well-Known Member

    diggin the mix of Bulb and Cob
     
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  13.  
    Humanrob

    Humanrob Well-Known Member

    Still dialing it in, recently noticed some burn on the tallest clone's top leaves (the NYC Diesel), so I knocked the MH down to 300w for a bit. I'd like to run it at 450w if I can, hopefully once the girls establish a little better I can dial it back up.
     
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  14.  
    Rocket Soul

    Rocket Soul Well-Known Member

    Hey Rob. Any info on the new sips? Did you take any photos of the wicks and comments on performance compared to last run? Not asking you to pull those out for pics though...
     
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  15.  
    Humanrob

    Humanrob Well-Known Member

    Sorry Rocket, almost no pics on this build. I used the same plastic drain pipe material that I used on larger ones. All four have what Rubbermaid describes as a "3 gallon" container, but with the 1" air gap they hold less for sure. I tried to keep the soil even, but the 3 gallon fabric pots seemed to hold more than the 3 gallon bins. At first, I thought the fabric pots were drying more quickly but now the plants are the dominant factor -- some drink much more than others. Right now the Cinex is the thirstiest of the bunch, and when she needs a refill everyone gets topped off, so far that's every 4 days. I have a 5 liter watering can and they each take about one full can per watering.

    I have been keeping them uncovered so far, but I'm seeing a few gnats flying around. Last run I had them tightly covered and had zero gnats -- the first indoor I've ever done where I could say that. I'm holding off for a bit because I like the idea of letting the soil breath, but if the bugs get any more active I'll cover them for sure.

    These seem to be the only pics I took while putting them together -

    3gal_sips.jpg 3galSIPinside.jpg
     
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  16.  
    Tim Fox

    Tim Fox Well-Known Member

    Hey @Humanrob are you running airstones on this grow ?
     
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  17.  
    Rocket Soul

    Rocket Soul Well-Known Member

    Nice! Short and wide. Im still toiling with setting something up. But things, like being away for a week every month from Jan, has got me rather limited. Will have access to a big sunny terrace with no nosy neighbours this summer. But not in my own house so i might try outdoor sips for then. Designing something that will give me good access to the res, so it can be cleaned, emptied, lowered/raised, so i can do topfeeding as well. Wanna avoid the probs of outgrowing the nutes in the soil before plant being ready. I might so with several auto runs over the summer. But long time till then
     
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  18.  
    Rocket Soul

    Rocket Soul Well-Known Member

    Or maybe EM?
     
  19.  
    Humanrob

    Humanrob Well-Known Member

    Yes, I picked up some round ones that I tried to place directly under the wick. Since last run I only got water roots in the bubble path, I thought this might encourage them.

    I look forward to seeing those. So far the handful of people on RIU who have used SIPs seem to have experienced that the res's don't need much cleaning or draining/refilling. I was the most 'paranoid' about that, and made a big deal out of wanting access, but so far I really haven't needed it. If you do make a drain system then you can add nutes to the res, but that's opening a whole regiment of monitoring that takes away from the beautiful simplicity of them that I'm after. Top feeding is interesting, I certainly have not mastered it.

    What is "EM"?
     
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  20.  
    Tim Fox

    Tim Fox Well-Known Member

    i was thinking the same question
     

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