Mau5Capades: builds & grow journal

[BobCajun]

i was all excited to hear about the new bigger drivers that cutter has coming with some of the kits but still can only power 8 cxb3590. not to say i'm not trying to get one but i have a 10 cob unit i would love to only have one driver for, guess i'm still stuck with two for that unit...

I ones over 240 are more costly per watt.

 

[BobCajun]

Hey all, And a big hey to Growmau5 Who's youtube vids brought me here. Great work on those DIY LED vids. I'm a total newb when it comes to electronics and watching those has made me remember just how much I enjoy learning!
Another great thing, its forced me to remember my password for this site which I havnt logged into in years. As you can guess from my pic I started off using CFLs years ago. I have spent the last 5 years with 600HPSs and I'm eager to change to LED

To everyone on this thread, why is it everyone only using COBs? Looking at blackdog LEDs and a lot of top brands they seem to use 3w or 5w single LEDs. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Since I was planning on attempting my own LED build using single LEDs I thought I best ask why you all don't. As I say I'm a newb to these systems so forgive my ignorance.
Just for a little more info I was going to build a unit of around 180x 5w LEDs with a mixed spectrum of 660nm, 640nm, 430nm, 450nm with some other spectrums, tiny bit of UV and some white, although unsure of wether that will be warm or cold white yet. I'm basing those colours on the chlorophyll A and B peak charts and the UV to increase THC.
Anyway if anyone has any opinions on anything ive asked or mentioned I would love to hear them.
Take it easy!
C.W

P.S you guys who have built your own set ups. Credit to you all. Inspirational stuff, truly!
Ah I also forgot to ask.. What is the penetration like with your set ups? I find 600hps ok but not great, better or worse?

COBs have more intensity than singles, due to the close spacing of the individual "dice". I forget the details of exactly why it's more intense but apparently it is, probably involving overlapping beams. There aren't really any high quality COBs with mixed colors, I don't think. Haven't really seen any. Probably would be more prone to burnout from the different colored dice having slightly different operating current/voltage, making such a COB difficult to drive reliably, I would think.

 

[coreywebster]

Simple answer; COB LED is much more efficient, not only than HID options but also more than Mars, Black Dog, etc. Spectrum is dramatically better than blurple LED, as well.

Thanks ttystikk !!
It amazing how many top market LED companies all contradict each other. Sometimes the only way to get to the truth is to ask the guys like you who are not all about the money/sales pitch. That's a shame, but that's the world we live in.

 

[coreywebster]

COBs have more intensity than singles, due to the close spacing of the individual "dice". I forget the details of exactly why it's more intense but apparently it is, probably involving overlapping beams. There aren't really any high quality COBs with mixed colors, I don't think. Haven't really seen any. Probably would be more prone to burnout from the different colored dice having slightly different operating current/voltage, making such a COB difficult to drive reliably, I would think.

Ah Cheers Bob, yeah that makes sense. Looking at all the LEDs that I have been lately I get what you mean, although you can get a lot of spectrums around the same Vs and Ma there's defo no way of having the full mix spectrum in the same range in on chip.
How about canopy penetration? Sounds like you can outperform HPS so you get tighter bottom nugs? That's where I struggle if my plants get over 3 feet or I don't prune the hell out of the low end.

Appreciate your input. Ta
C.W

 

[coreywebster]

While I'm still logged on I may as well ask, Does anyone have a link to or info themselves on PAR and lux readings at different distances from the lights you have built. It really has got my interest peaked this thread.
Cheers
C.W

 

[BobCajun]

Ah Cheers Bob, yeah that makes sense. Looking at all the LEDs that I have been lately I get what you mean, although you can get a lot of spectrums around the same Vs and Ma there's defo no way of having the full mix spectrum in the same range in on chip.
How about canopy penetration? Sounds like you can outperform HPS so you get tighter bottom nugs? That's where I struggle if my plants get over 3 feet or I don't prune the hell out of the low end.

Appreciate your input. Ta
C.W

Well I have noticed less lower leaf drop with cobs than HPS. Lower buds are still fluff after the first foot of canopy though.

 

[SoOLED]

Ah Cheers Bob, yeah that makes sense. Looking at all the LEDs that I have been lately I get what you mean, although you can get a lot of spectrums around the same Vs and Ma there's defo no way of having the full mix spectrum in the same range in on chip.
How about canopy penetration? Sounds like you can outperform HPS so you get tighter bottom nugs? That's where I struggle if my plants get over 3 feet or I don't prune the hell out of the low end.

Appreciate your input. Ta
C.W

the white cobs 3k-6k have a very good spectrum. its part of what makes them so great. while cobs are and excellent lighting solution that's not to say you cant grow with anything else, given your budget you can grow some great personal nugs.

 

[SoOLED]

While I'm still logged on I may as well ask, Does anyone have a link to or info themselves on PAR and lux readings at different distances from the lights you have built. It really has got my interest peaked this thread.
Cheers
C.W

 

[Shredderthirty]

oh the horror!!! cant you use a PC power supply too?

i have no idea about using a PC power supply, just gonna stick with two drivers........or may just take two off the panel and drive those 8 and just make another panel, but if i take off 2 cxb on that big heatsink then i'm gonna want to run them a little hotter than the usual 25w each....maybe...
my problem now is not the amount of cobs but trying to get enough amps to run them, right now my room is all on one circuit and i'm trying to figure out how to get on another breaker so i can power all of these lights i want in the room (mars1200 *4amps* for veg, then two p600 *6.2amps* and 18 cxb3590 but looking like i'm gonna take out 2 cobs so really probably gonna be 16cxb *10amps?*) plus a 12000btu A/C *9amps* my vortexS6 *.65amps* and some misc. fans and my co2 regulator.
no empty spots on my breaker either to change anything to different voltage so i think guess my choices are to get rid of some lighting or run some extension cords but sounds like i'm shit outta luck but i got a month or so to figure it all out

 

[SoOLED]

i have no idea about using a PC power supply, just gonna stick with two drivers........or may just take two off the panel and drive those 8 and just make another panel, but if i take off 2 cxb on that big heatsink then i'm gonna want to run them a little hotter than the usual 25w each....maybe...
my problem now is not the amount of cobs but trying to get enough amps to run them, right now my room is all on one circuit and i'm trying to figure out how to get on another breaker so i can power all of these lights i want in the room (mars1200 *4amps* for veg, then two p600 *6.2amps* and 18 cxb3590 but looking like i'm gonna take out 2 cobs so really probably gonna be 16cxb *10amps?*) plus a 12000btu A/C *9amps* my vortexS6 *.65amps* and some misc. fans and my co2 regulator.
no empty spots on my breaker either to change anything to different voltage so i think guess my choices are to get rid of some lighting or run some extension cords but sounds like i'm shit outta luck but i got a month or so to figure it all out

you need a growers panel/box installed. its not cheap, but its way safer then extension cords.

 

[JorgeGonzales]

Hey all, And a big hey to Growmau5 Who's youtube vids brought me here. Great work on those DIY LED vids. I'm a total newb when it comes to electronics and watching those has made me remember just how much I enjoy learning!
Another great thing, its forced me to remember my password for this site which I havnt logged into in years. As you can guess from my pic I started off using CFLs years ago. I have spent the last 5 years with 600HPSs and I'm eager to change to LED

To everyone on this thread, why is it everyone only using COBs? Looking at blackdog LEDs and a lot of top brands they seem to use 3w or 5w single LEDs. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Since I was planning on attempting my own LED build using single LEDs I thought I best ask why you all don't. As I say I'm a newb to these systems so forgive my ignorance.
Just for a little more info I was going to build a unit of around 180x 5w LEDs with a mixed spectrum of 660nm, 640nm, 430nm, 450nm with some other spectrums, tiny bit of UV and some white, although unsure of wether that will be warm or cold white yet. I'm basing those colours on the chlorophyll A and B peak charts and the UV to increase THC.
Anyway if anyone has any opinions on anything ive asked or mentioned I would love to hear them.
Take it easy!
C.W

P.S you guys who have built your own set ups. Credit to you all. Inspirational stuff, truly!

It's just something to try, the filtering. I'm curious to see if there will be any noticeable effect, good or bad. Seems like an obvious thing to try. It was cheap enough to make it worth trying. I've seen at least one article stating that less than 24% green enhances growth, then it's about normal from 24 to 50% and above 50 it actually reduces growth. I'm pretty sure there's more than 24% green in 4000k COBs. Quote;

"The supplementation of blue + red LEDs could also be complemented with green LEDs. Illumination with more than 50% of green LED light causes a reduction in plant growth, whereas treatments containing up to 24% green light enhanced growth for some species". source

Well, here's the thing. I read that as well, but it isn't saying there is any harm between 24-50%, or that the enhanced growth disappeared, is it? I've read other studies that say green light's effect is also related to the R:FR ratio, and compared to the sun all broad spectrum LEDs have very little FR compared to nature. They are using mono leds in different ratios, where the situation is a little more complicated with cobs.

I just broke out the spreadsheet, and grabbed some SPD curves from Nichia cobs, and here's what it looks like. Blue is 400-500nm, Green is 500-600nm, Red is 600-700nm:

"Green" is usually broadly defined as 500-600nm, which of course includes a lot of yellow as well. Does that affect growth negatively? Maybe you should cut the percentages in half to get closer to green percentages like the study you quoted, since a bunch is yellow light. In which case you'd want much more green than you would think!

NFDLJ130B 3000k 80 CRI


NFDLJ130B 5000k 80 CRI



NFDLJ130B 3000k 90 CRI



So yeah, even 3000k 90 CRI has way too much green, maybe, depending on how you interpret the data. That was interesting. @alesh might have already done all of this, I just chose Nichia because they actually have tables of SPD data, so I could skip the digitizing.

My 4000k Citizen at 80 CRI actually looks like this:



And who knows, maybe that is terrible! These really need alesh's Cree data for most people to find it applicable. Maybe some pie charts, and more fine-grained color differentiations, especially between green and yellow. But these are numbers I had close at hand, and I am being lazy.

 

[ttystikk]

Thanks ttystikk !!
It amazing how many top market LED companies all contradict each other. Sometimes the only way to get to the truth is to ask the guys like you who are not all about the money/sales pitch. That's a shame, but that's the world we live in.

I run a research and consulting lab, so my credibility is worth a lot more to me than any single product or lineup.

 

[ttystikk]

oh the horror!!! cant you use a PC power supply too?

Good question and 'no', because PC power supplies aren't current limited. They'll run the risk of frying your COB string.

 

[PurpleBuz]

It's just something to try, the filtering. I'm curious to see if there will be any noticeable effect, good or bad. Seems like an obvious thing to try. It was cheap enough to make it worth trying. I've seen at least one article stating that less than 24% green enhances growth, then it's about normal from 24 to 50% and above 50 it actually reduces growth. I'm pretty sure there's more than 24% green in 4000k COBs. Quote;

"The supplementation of blue + red LEDs could also be complemented with green LEDs. Illumination with more than 50% of green LED light causes a reduction in plant growth, whereas treatments containing up to 24% green light enhanced growth for some species". source

Unless your trying to improve growth for low light level blue and red in LETTUCE this research is irrelevant.
Especially for production light levels of cannabis. Suggest you pay attention to the umols of light that the researchers are putting on the plants. Especially those that are trying to understand the physiological shade responses.

You can easily tune the amount of green light relative to other wavelengths just by choosing the white phosphor cob that fits what you want.

 

[pop22]

Because, those so called "top brands " lights won't match most of the DIY lights for output, and most of those compaines have a big investment into led stockpiles, or contractual obligations to buy x amount. It won't be long before COBs replace most single led applications.

Hey all, And a big hey to Growmau5 Who's youtube vids brought me here. Great work on those DIY LED vids. I'm a total newb when it comes to electronics and watching those has made me remember just how much I enjoy learning!
Another great thing, its forced me to remember my password for this site which I havnt logged into in years. As you can guess from my pic I started off using CFLs years ago. I have spent the last 5 years with 600HPSs and I'm eager to change to LED

To everyone on this thread, why is it everyone only using COBs? Looking at blackdog LEDs and a lot of top brands they seem to use 3w or 5w single LEDs. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Since I was planning on attempting my own LED build using single LEDs I thought I best ask why you all don't. As I say I'm a newb to these systems so forgive my ignorance.
Just for a little more info I was going to build a unit of around 180x 5w LEDs with a mixed spectrum of 660nm, 640nm, 430nm, 450nm with some other spectrums, tiny bit of UV and some white, although unsure of wether that will be warm or cold white yet. I'm basing those colours on the chlorophyll A and B peak charts and the UV to increase THC.
Anyway if anyone has any opinions on anything ive asked or mentioned I would love to hear them.
Take it easy!
C.W

P.S you guys who have built your own set ups. Credit to you all. Inspirational stuff, truly!
Ah I also forgot to ask.. What is the penetration like with your set ups? I find 600hps ok but not great, better or worse?

 

[BobCajun]

Well, here's the thing. I read that as well, but it isn't saying there is any harm between 24-50%, or that the enhanced growth disappeared, is it? I've read other studies that say green light's effect is also related to the R:FR ratio, and compared to the sun all broad spectrum LEDs have very little FR compared to nature. They are using mono leds in different ratios, where the situation is a little more complicated with cobs.

I just broke out the spreadsheet, and grabbed some SPD curves from Nichia cobs, and here's what it looks like. Blue is 400-500nm, Green is 500-600nm, Red is 600-700nm:

"Green" is usually broadly defined as 500-600nm, which of course includes a lot of yellow as well. Does that affect growth negatively? Maybe you should cut the percentages in half to get closer to green percentages like the study you quoted, since a bunch is yellow light. In which case you'd want much more green than you would think!

NFDLJ130B 3000k 80 CRI
View attachment 3680673

NFDLJ130B 5000k 80 CRI

View attachment 3680672

NFDLJ130B 3000k 90 CRI

View attachment 3680671

So yeah, even 3000k 90 CRI has way too much green, maybe, depending on how you interpret the data. That was interesting. @alesh might have already done all of this, I just chose Nichia because they actually have tables of SPD data, so I could skip the digitizing.

My 4000k Citizen at 80 CRI actually looks like this:

View attachment 3680674

And who knows, maybe that is terrible! These really need alesh's Cree data for most people to find it applicable. Maybe some pie charts, and more fine-grained color differentiations, especially between green and yellow. But these are numbers I had close at hand, and I am being lazy.

Thanks for the figures. Yeah that's way too much green, more than either blue or red, except for the 3000k 90 CRT. A green dominant spectrum is not a desirable thing for me. Others, maybe. I'm not recommending anyone else use filters. I just mentioned that I was personally going to try them. Thought GM5 might find it slightly interesting since nobody else ever did it, at least not that I could find anywhere online. Your figures show that the green problem is worse than I even imagined. Green is out of control.

 

[JorgeGonzales]

Thanks for the figures. Yeah that's way too much green, more than either blue or red, except for the 3000k 90 CRT. A green dominant spectrum is not a desirable thing for me. Others, maybe. I'm not recommending anyone else use filters. I just mentioned that I was personally going to try them. Thought GM5 might find it slightly interesting since nobody else ever did it, at least not that I could find anywhere online. Your figures show that the green problem is worse than I even imagined. Green is out of control.

Keep in mind that study used 525 nm leds, not white light. It might not be a problem at all.

 

[Shredderthirty]

you need a growers panel/box installed. its not cheap, but its way safer then extension cords.

oh man, what's not cheap because the heavy duty cords at a good length are not the cheapest either

 

[SoOLED]

oh man, what's not cheap because the heavy duty cords at a good length are not the cheapest either

yeah, and it took me two weeks to tear everything down and clear out of the space, cant have some guy working in your running lab.

I moved from that house awhile ago, I wonder what the new owners thought? a panel breaker and 6 plugs + kw meter in the rec-room they called it.

 

[JorgeGonzales]

Thanks for the figures. Yeah that's way too much green, more than either blue or red, except for the 3000k 90 CRT. A green dominant spectrum is not a desirable thing for me. Others, maybe. I'm not recommending anyone else use filters. I just mentioned that I was personally going to try them. Thought GM5 might find it slightly interesting since nobody else ever did it, at least not that I could find anywhere online. Your figures show that the green problem is worse than I even imagined. Green is out of control.

Here is some stuff from @alesh, who is much better at this than I am. Instead of subtracting you could add red or blue to hit whatever ratio you wanted.